AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, Rivener said:

the Warshrine seems like a must have in any list featuring the endless axe

Some people prefer having multiple slaughterpriests, but yeah, the warshrine is in a very good spot now.

[ChaosUndivided]

4 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

 You can have multiple Stokers and units of Warriors pluss they have reroll ALL failed wound rolls now. Besides you dont have to outright kill the ranged unit because now they have to target the Warriors who have gorefist and no respite.

I checked warscroll no respite only works in combat phase and gorefist only vs melee attacks. Thats unfortunate, however, you have still tied the ranged unit up keeping all your key support pieces safe.

[Warbossironteef]

4 minutes ago, Rivener said:

I could see some value in slinging units of Bloodmad Bloodreavers across the board solely to tie up ranged units, though. If you Bloodstoke them you’ve got an effective threat range of 27” on the charge on average. Probably not efficient per se, but kind of funny. Plus if/when they die you get a blood tithe!

It can be very efficient if you can make them fearless. Having a semi durable, either due to save or # of wounds, fearless unit in your enemies chaff lines turn 1 is very good. It forces them to deal with it or it consumes their chaff and allows you to then out maneuver  them.  I haven't been playing Khorne or this exact tactic but I've played a lot of Tabletop and I can tell you that if you use this as a tool, it can win you a lot of games.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Warbossironteef

[ChaosUndivided]

Khornes biggest weakness is by far shooting. We don't have things like ambush or any extra +1defense outside of lookout sir (wish Wrathmonger had an ability like Protector's stormshield), the whole slingshot idea is are go-to missle defense now.

[Ravinsild]

How would we work around a Slaanesh list? I have a buddy who has an extremely competitive list and I've never beat him with my death army. Last I saw he ditched his chaos knights and mauraders to go full daemon, and like every single unit (slight exaggeration but BARELY tbh) is 16'' move that can run and charge, with several -1 to hit auras and abilities to double hit. So they're super fast, hit really hard and have loads of debuffs, not to mention quite a bit of magic between daemon princes and keepers of secrets etc. 

What do? 

[ChaosUndivided]

Just now, Ravinsild said:

How would we work around a Slaanesh list? I have a buddy who has an extremely competitive list and I've never beat him with my death army. Last I saw he ditched his chaos knights and mauraders to go full daemon, and like every single unit (slight exaggeration but BARELY tbh) is 16'' move that can run and charge, with several -1 to hit auras and abilities to double hit. So they're super fast, hit really hard and have loads of debuffs, not to mention quite a bit of magic between daemon princes and keepers of secrets etc. 

What do? 

Keep all you're support pieces bubble wrapped. Move down field in formation. Debuffs are really potent. Warshrine would help and Killing Frenzy. The axe judgment would probably come in handy if he is swarming units. I think stuff like how to beat specific list comes with experience vs it but you gotta try different stuff don't do same thing each time.

[andysonic1]

I'm too gunshy of possible changes to the warshrine in the future to move forward with my Khorne version now, so I'm sticking with multiple priests.

7 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

 You can have multiple Stokers and units of Warriors pluss they have reroll ALL failed wound rolls now. Besides you dont have to outright kill the ranged unit because now they have to target the Warriors who have gorefist and no respite.

I don't think multiple Stokers is an effective use of your points. That said, I've placed my models out and it's not difficult to get 40 Bloodreavers in range of the Stoker for a turn one charge. The biggest problem with this is how obvious it is to your opponent. Anyone with a brain is going to deploy as far away as possible, denying you the first turn charge, or place all their chaff in front of you. Even so, being able to plant a 40 man unit of buffed up Bloodreavers on an objective or encroaching on your opponent's side of the board is very appealing. You could even spread them out to deny an area of the board and funnel your opponent towards your beefier units.

2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

How would we work around a Slaanesh list? I have a buddy who has an extremely competitive list and I've never beat him with my death army. Last I saw he ditched his chaos knights and mauraders to go full daemon, and like every single unit (slight exaggeration but BARELY tbh) is 16'' move that can run and charge, with several -1 to hit auras and abilities to double hit. So they're super fast, hit really hard and have loads of debuffs, not to mention quite a bit of magic between daemon princes and keepers of secrets etc. 

What do? 

Lower your drop count, go first, launch judgements out to zone ahead of your units, buff your Blood Warrior unit up, position so he is forced to move around your judgements towards your Blood Warriors, ???, profit. Utilize your alter's large base plus your judgement's large bases to create funnel, and then buff the hell out of your Blood Warriors and put them at the head of the funnel. Force him to either go around your funnel, spreading out his units, or take it head-on with however many models he can press against it.

[ChaosUndivided]

3 minutes ago, andysonic1 said:

don't think multiple Stokers is an effective use of your points. That said, I've placed my models out and it's not difficult to get 40 Bloodreavers in range of the Stoker for a turn one charge. The biggest problem with this is how obvious it is to your opponent. Anyone with a brain is going to deploy as far away as possible, denying you the first turn charge, or place all their chaff in front of you. Even so, being able to plant a 40 man unit of buffed up Bloodreavers on an objective or encroaching on your opponent's side of the board is very appealing. You could even spread them out to deny an area of the board and funnel your opponent towards your beefier units.

80 points to rerwoll all failes wounds and buff both run and charge? Those are buffs that are good an anything. When was 80 points too much to spare for that? I would be more concerned about the hero slot. I'm gonna try running 2 and see how i like it.

You can't always just deploy on the far end of board, first off deployment is a mini game in and of itself where you can mess with people. Secondly even ranged units have a RANGE wich forces most of them into the danger zone now with these run + charges, which previously wasn't considered.

This new era of run + charge is going to make a world of difference.

[andysonic1]

To be fair: the Bloodletter Bomb has been a thing since AoS started. They've just replaced the Bloodletters with Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors. I'm not complaining, I think this is an important part of our army, but it's not a new concept.

That said: you do make good points. Unless your opponent plans to give up pretty much the entire first turn, they are going to have to deploy somewhat aggressively. There's a good chance you'll have something in range to charge.

80 points is fine but an 8 inch wholly within aura is going to make positioning very difficult if you take more than one. You really don't need to create more than one uber-unit a turn, but that's just my opinion.

[Ravinsild]

41 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

80 points to rerwoll all failes wounds and buff both run and charge? Those are buffs that are good an anything. When was 80 points too much to spare for that? I would be more concerned about the hero slot. I'm gonna try running 2 and see how i like it.

You can't always just deploy on the far end of board, first off deployment is a mini game in and of itself where you can mess with people. Secondly even ranged units have a RANGE wich forces most of them into the danger zone now with these run + charges, which previously wasn't considered.

This new era of run + charge is going to make a world of difference.

How are we able to actually run and charge? Bloodstoker doesn't allow you to charge after running from what I'm aware of, it just buffs both, running and, separately, charging. 

[Bjornas]

2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

How are we able to actually run and charge? Bloodstoker doesn't allow you to charge after running from what I'm aware of, it just buffs both, running and, separately, charging. 

No but with the Goretide bonus, one unit could. And that'd be damn fast. Just not sure I want a unit to spend an entire turn isolated like that.

[ChaosUndivided]

 

6 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

How are we able to actually run and charge? Bloodstoker doesn't allow you to charge after running from what I'm aware of, it just buffs both, running and, separately, charging. 

If you choose Goretide slaughterhost:

Command Ability - Ever Onwards: During your movement phase, before you make a run move, you may use this ability on 1 friendly Goretide Bloodreaver or Goretide Blood Warrior unit wholly within 16" of a friendly model with this command ability. If you do so, that run roll is auto 6. In addition, that unit can run and charge this turn. Reavers kept their +1 run/charge banner, and you can still whip them for +3 run/charge, so this ability allows you to get a block of 40 across the field turn one

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure you can spam this with multiple CP.

@andysonic1 I'm with you on the turn 1 tarpit Reaver blob. Im trying to do that and move in withg the Warriors on flanks for nasty turn 2 backline charge. Im thinking its best to let opponent go first (Secrator banner aint what it used to be) then hope for a double turn or good support system to keep stuff alive.

[andysonic1]

I should be playing a game this Sunday using Goretide, Gore Pilgrims, and Dark Feast and using all 70 of my Bloodreavers + my 20 Blood Warriors. I'm a little worried about not having much punching power, so I'm hoping the Mighty Lord + Blood Boil spam from 3 Priests + Judgements can make up the difference. No idea what I'm going to be facing yet.

[ChaosUndivided]

1 minute ago, andysonic1 said:

I should be playing a game this Sunday using Goretide, Gore Pilgrims, and Dark Feast and using all 70 of my Bloodreavers + my 20 Blood Warriors. I'm a little worried about not having much punching power, so I'm hoping the Mighty Lord + Blood Boil spam from 3 Priests + Judgements can make up the difference. No idea what I'm going to be facing yet.

Yeah i like the Dark Feast but a) you need 60+ Reavers to even make it worth it b) man their so glass connon'y. But yeah overall punching power is gonna not feel great, however blood boil is still spammable to snipe what needs to be. Definitely give MLoK the trait and a gore cleaver. A warshrine is amazing in a list like this too... With that many Reavers i would pick one up if you dont already have.

[andysonic1]

5 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Yeah i like the Dark Feast but a) you need 60+ Reavers to even make it worth it b) man their so glass connon'y. But yeah overall punching power is gonna not feel great, however blood boil is still spammable to snipe what needs to be. Definitely give MLoK the trait and a gore cleaver. A warshrine is amazing in a list like this too... With that many Reavers i would pick one up if you dont already have.

There's no room for a Warshrine even if I had one built up, unfortunately. I'm just using the one big blob to crash into the enemy line turn one and the rest is MSU. The plan is pretty much to hold the enemy on their side of the board with Blood Warriors + heroes as a second wave. Maybe there's a strategy here where you use Apocalyptic Frenzy to attack before they do anything in their hero phase. Hell, maybe there's a strategy to launch 10 Blood Warriors in first to attempt to kill something and die, Sacrifice to gain a point, and try to get off Relentless Fury before you launch your 40 Bloodreavers in. They can be the final spear that you stab into the heart of the enemy after your Blood Warriors tear their chest open.

[Rivener]

17 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Yeah i like the Dark Feast but a) you need 60+ Reavers to even make it worth it

By bringing the battalion you get a CP (worth 50 points), plus a relic. Given how awesome our relics are now, that seems worth quite a bit. If you’re already bringing a Slaughterpriest and the Bloodstoker the Dark Feast can easily be VERY worth its points even if you don’t get optimal use out of the Reavers.

[ChaosUndivided]

16 minutes ago, Rivener said:

By bringing the battalion you get a CP (worth 50 points), plus a relic. Given how awesome our relics are now, that seems worth quite a bit. If you’re already bringing a Slaughterpriest and the Bloodstoker the Dark Feast can easily be VERY worth its points even if you don’t get optimal use out of the Reavers.

Yeah thats a good point, also decreasing drops is priceless, but you could same the same for a bunch of these cheaper battalions now.

Does anyone have requirements for Slaughterborn? Cuz Goretide super battalion looks playable (and amazing) in 2k game now.

[Killax]

2 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Khornes biggest weakness is by far shooting. We don't have things like ambush or any extra +1defense outside of lookout sir (wish Wrathmonger had an ability like Protector's stormshield), the whole slingshot idea is are go-to missle defense now.

Hmmm... Well we shoot too. Im not worried about shooting.

Be it Wrathmongers with Skullcannons or Slaughterpriests with Magic Axe and Floaty Skulls. And we can slingshot.

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

How would we work around a Slaanesh list? I have a buddy who has an extremely competitive list and I've never beat him with my death army. Last I saw he ditched his chaos knights and mauraders to go full daemon, and like every single unit (slight exaggeration but BARELY tbh) is 16'' move that can run and charge, with several -1 to hit auras and abilities to double hit. So they're super fast, hit really hard and have loads of debuffs, not to mention quite a bit of magic between daemon princes and keepers of secrets etc. 

What do? 

- Floaty Skulls

- Body screens

 

[AresX8]

45 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Yeah thats a good point, also decreasing drops is priceless, but you could same the same for a bunch of these cheaper battalions now.

Does anyone have requirements for Slaughterborn? Cuz Goretide super battalion looks playable (and amazing) in 2k game now.

Slaughterborn's unit requirements are the same as the old book. The Goretide super battalion also no longer exists.

[Ravinsild]

I asked specifically about Slaanesh because as y'all know I love me some Skulltake battalion which is apparently quite slow, so I am concerned my opponent is just going to run quite literal circles around me with their sanic speed In case anyone was wondering. Albeit I have not played their list in a minute, and never with Khorne (only undead). So it could be different with Khorne. 

[ChaosUndivided]

1 hour ago, AresX8 said:

Slaughterborn's unit requirements are the same as the old book. The Goretide super battalion also no longer exists.

Ah ok. I'm trying to dig around for more list ideas. I guess I'll just wait till tomorrow.

[Grimrock]

Actually I think the most interesting thing for me with Dark Feast is how it allows you to leverage buffs effectively in a small unit. With a unit of ten you can pretty easily get to 5 attacks each (feast, bloodsecrator, totem, wrathmongers). That's 51 attacks that can be easily applied (getting all 10 into combat) and buffed by a bloodsecrator and slaughter priest due to the tiny footprint. The base stats still aren't great, but considering how difficult it is to apply our buffs there is some value in spamming 10 man units and using them in waves. 

With a killing frenzy and whip that unit of then puts out something like 25 rend 1 wounds. That's pretty bonkers.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Grimrock

[andysonic1]

2 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Actually I think the most interesting thing for me with Dark Feast is how it allows you to leverage buffs effectively in a small unit. With a unit of ten you can pretty easily get to 5 attacks each (feast, bloodsecrator, totem, wrathmongers). That's 51 attacks that can be easily applied (getting all 10 into combat) and buffed by a bloodsecrator and slaughter priest due to the tiny footprint. The base stats still aren't great, but considering how difficult it is to apply our buffs there is some value in spamming 10 man units and using them in waves. 

MSU Meatripper Bloodreavers in this configuration could be potentially devastating, however Bloodreavers are also made of paper mache. And with the nerf to summoning (one unit per your turn now instead of multiple) it doesn't seem worth it to sacrifice tons of them like that, UNLESS you had something you were keeping in the back pocket for the 8 point Blood Tithe exploding dice option.

[Grimrock]

3 minutes ago, andysonic1 said:

MSU Meatripper Bloodreavers in this configuration could be potentially devastating, however Bloodreavers are also made of paper mache. And with the nerf to summoning (one unit per your turn now instead of multiple) it doesn't seem worth it to sacrifice tons of them like that, UNLESS you had something you were keeping in the back pocket for the 8 point Blood Tithe exploding dice option.

I guess it depends on the plan for them. My first thought was using the Feast as a screen for my army. 4 units of reavers up front that take the first charge and probably die, but if any are left they can just tear a huge chunk out of the attackers. On the other hand if the opponent ignores the screen and tries to get around it then they're in for a world of hurt. The battalion isn't too expensive and it makes the screen one drop instead of 6, so I think there's some potential for sure. 

[andysonic1]

31 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I guess it depends on the plan for them. My first thought was using the Feast as a screen for my army. 4 units of reavers up front that take the first charge and probably die, but if any are left they can just tear a huge chunk out of the attackers. On the other hand if the opponent ignores the screen and tries to get around it then they're in for a world of hurt. The battalion isn't too expensive and it makes the screen one drop instead of 6, so I think there's some potential for sure. 

That sounds like a very potent screen. If they live, you attack with 5 attack each. If they die, you get a blood point and your opponent's models are right in front of your killy units. Too bad I have more Bloodreavers than sense (or any Wrathmongers / Skullreapers) or I'd probably be doing this too.

As an aside: there is now no longer a rule limiting the number of blood points to 8, so it's now possible (temporarily) to summon a Greater Daemon of Khorne without needing to take him in the list. I look forward to seeing an MSU Bloodreavers list dedicated to doing this one and only thing.