Rivener

What channel?

Oh right, heroic actions are in each hero phase, not just your own!

Can you show your math here?

Amazing work, thanks!

I know I’m late to the party, but do we think there any more KB models to reveal? It’s not exactly a huge roster right now.

…why though? There are no boyz in that picture at all!

Indeed she does, though I would caution that her bonus to wound is strictly in the combat phase, and only the one, so you do not “double dip” in your opponents combat phase as you can with many other buffs/debuffs.

The only notable offensive buffs in the army are +1 to-hit (dark delusions), +1 to-wound in combat (Shardspeaker), and RR1’s to-hit, which can be done with warscroll daemon hero spells. They’re all keyword agnostic, so Marauders, Depraved Bestigors, Gors, Bullgors, Chosen, and yes, Chaos Warriors, lose exploding 6’s but the difference simply isn’t great enough to make up for the existing warscroll cost imbalances. Edit: Full rerolls to-hit are huge too, and are provided by the Lord of Pain which is key worded to Hedonite Mortals. StD get full rerolls to-hit and to-wound, though, with Warshrines and Sorcerers.

The issue remains that Hedonite warscrolls cannot be deliberately overpriced with summoning in mind. StD and BoC marked units can, and will, be used in their stead. The only way forward is getting Hedonite warscrolls into a condition where they are competitive with existing depravity alternatives.

Yeah, Glutos and the KoS aren’t anywhere near killy enough for their points- they are support pieces. Boy they’re expensive, though.

This is a fantastic thing to hear, and I appreciate your coming on the thread to lend your insight. My fear is that the logic to deliberately overcost the warscrolls is not appropriate given that there are many, cheaper, sources of depravity. I appreciate the challenge; you cannot overprice the warscrolls as you’ll also need to overprice StD, BoC, and allied warscrolls. Obviously you can’t do that as it would then impact other armies. The line is a thin one to walk, I readily admit. Yet I think it’s evident that there are some warscrolls, not all, but some, that are not walking that line.

Then do both! Email them today saying the matched play costs for most units, especially the newest releases, are not correct based on even the most cursory comparisons to other options in the same army. That a basic mathematical comparison unequivocally agrees with that initial concern. Then, say you are going to play with the points as written and provide additional data. These are not mutually exclusive, actually they are best together! Just please, PLEASE don’t do nothing. Don’t just assume it’ll all work out in the end, or that silent play testing is the only path forward. Email GW today and tell them you are concerned, and if you need to get games in before you make any final decisions, fine, but tell them at first glance there are some real fears.

I encourage everyone in this thread who believes the costs and warscrolls are problematic to immediately email GW about this. They can, and will, change the costs if there is sufficient outcry. These are the worst costed releases in AoS to date, and possibly the most anticipated. If we make it clear that we are disappointed, that our enthusiasm for buying the models has greatly diminished, and that an early FAQ would restore our faith in the release, we can affect change. I know people want to say to wait, but I assure everyone here of this unequivocal reality: the math is clear. These units are not costed for Matched Play.

The ability doesn’t work on enemy models, it works on the number of slaangor models. It’s like one MW, maybe, if any paper thin slaangors even survive.

This exactly. Depravity does (and absolutely should) work on all units, friendly or otherwise. That means the units in this book cannot be intentionally overpriced just to hem in summoning- it’s literally not possible without a fundamental restructuring of every markable chaos unit. Thus, summoning and the HoS units must both be fairly costed. Right now there may be an imbalance with overly cheap summons (though we don’t know this with any certainty whatsoever), and there is a clear, mathematically demonstrable imbalance with the pricing of the warscrolls. No one needs to take my word for it; just look at some of our allies warscrolls and their costs. These units are directly comparable to existing, cheaper, better units that are themselves bad in the context of their own books let alone the game at large.

I encourage absolutely everyone on this thread to do this. These warscrolls aren’t just bad, they don’t even pass the most basic sniff test. Fiendbloods are more expensive than Dragon Ogors and are approximately half as good. Nobody even uses Dragon Ogors. Think about that: this brand new shiny unit isn’t even half as good as cheaper things that are bad, from an old, bad book.

They do about half the damage as Bullgors, and are easier to kill. They may be one of the worst units in the game point for point.

There isn’t. The entire tome has been leaked.

Now that Greenskinz no longer have points I’m assuming we cannot use them in Big Waaagh?

Daemonblades. With such easy access to full rerolls going crit fishing is statistically smart.

The spell lore is poor? The spell lore that has a point and click always strikes last? And a teleport, even out of combat, when our best unit can easily make the 9” charge? And a spell that, for the first time to my recollection in all of AoS, turns off movement entirely, including pile ins...effectively defeating deathstars nearly by itself? I think it may be one of the best lores in the game to date.

What artifacts can you use then?

The command ability itself explicitly only adds the save to Mortis Praetorians, regardless of its range.

Katakros only gives +1 save to Mortis Praetorians, not Petrifex.

How does anything in this army besides Katakros, a liege and Immortis Guard get to a 2+?