AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

After seeing the LVO preview, does anyone think we'll receive any new models when our battletome gets updated? Starting to feel we may only get a new hero a la the Carrion Empire battle box. Personally I would be disappointed since we could use some variety, give us something else to play around with to mix up our lists, but I guess the new battletome will take care of that

The thing to note the breadth of units that are available in the new battletomes, in this regard I highly doubt that we will see an Ironjawz battletome without new stuff, it will either have it or be a combined battletome.

After the previews I had exactly the same hopes. Single Battletome: Great Waaagh! 

Endless Spells - Can only be cast by a Great Waaagh! Wizards.

Foot of Gork

Spoiler

 

Predatory Endless Spell - Can Fly up to 6" 

Summon Foot of Gork: The Foot of Gork has a casting value of 10. If successfully cast set up this model anywhere on the board wholly within 12" of an enemy unit.

Stomp 'Em: After this model is moved, the player who moved it picks one unit within 12" of this model, that unit takes  D6 mortal wounds. The player than rolls a dice, on a 6+ Gork continues to stomp and the controlling player then immediately makes another move with this model, this continues until either the roll is not successful or the Foot of Gork is dispelled.

Great Destroyer: When rolling to see if Gork keeps stomping after dealing mortal wounds to a unit add 1 if that unit did not have the Great Waaagh! keyword. Instead add 2 if that unit did not have the Destruction keyword.

Waaagh! God: This model must end it's movement within 12" of a unit. If this is not possible then this spell is instantly dispelled as Gork gets bored and wanders off.

 

Gaze of Mork

Spoiler

Endless spell

Summon Gaze of Mork: The Gaze of Mork has a casting value of 7. If succesfully cast set up this model wholly within 18" of a the caster.

Die Stupid Wizard: After this model is set up you may select a wizard within 12" of it. They take d3 mortal wounds.

Stupid Magiks: Whenever an wizard attempts to cast a spell while within 30" of the this model, before they roll any dice, you may roll a dice. On a 4+ that unit takes d3 mortal wounds. On a 6+ that spell instantly fails, do not make a casting roll for it.

Waaagh! Magiks: Wizards attempting to cast spells from the Lore of the Great Waaagh! or a warscroll with the Great Waaagh! keyword are not affected by this model.

Scenery Piece

Great Waaagh! Banner

• After both players have finished deploying you may deploy this scenery piece within 1" of a friendly unit. 
• Whenever a Friendly unit within 1" the Great Waaagh! keyword moves, you may move the Great Waaagh! Banner the up to that units movement characteristic. It must finish this move within 1" of that unit.
• All Great Waaagh! units wholly within 18" of the Great Waaagh! Banner at the start of the combat phase may reroll any failed wound rolls made during that combat phase.
• At the end of each combat phase roll a dice for each Great Waaagh! unit under the effects of the Great Waaagh! Banner. Add 1 for every 10 models slain during that combat phase. On a 6+ that unit may instantly pile in and attack again.

[Malakithe]

51 minutes ago, Malakree said:

The thing to note the breadth of units that are available in the new battletomes, in this regard I highly doubt that we will see an Ironjawz battletome without new stuff, it will either have it or be a combined battletome.

After the previews I had exactly the same hopes. Single Battletome: Great Waaagh! 

Endless Spells - Can only be cast by a Great Waaagh! Wizards.

Foot of Gork

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Predatory Endless Spell - Can Fly up to 6" 

Summon Foot of Gork: The Foot of Gork has a casting value of 10. If successfully cast set up this model anywhere on the board wholly within 12" of an enemy unit.

Stomp 'Em: After this model is moved, the player who moved it picks one unit within 12" of this model, that unit takes  D6 mortal wounds. The player than rolls a dice, on a 6+ Gork continues to stomp and the controlling player then immediately makes another move with this model, this continues until either the roll is not successful or the Foot of Gork is dispelled.

Great Destroyer: When rolling to see if Gork keeps stomping after dealing mortal wounds to a unit add 1 if that unit did not have the Great Waaagh! keyword. Instead add 2 if that unit did not have the Destruction keyword.

Waaagh! God: This model must end it's movement within 12" of a unit. If this is not possible then this spell is instantly dispelled as Gork gets bored and wanders off.

 

Gaze of Mork

  Reveal hidden contents

Endless spell

Summon Gaze of Mork: The Gaze of Mork has a casting value of 7. If succesfully cast set up this model wholly within 18" of a the caster.

Die Stupid Wizard: After this model is set up you may select a wizard within 12" of it. They take d3 mortal wounds.

Stupid Magiks: Whenever an wizard attempts to cast a spell while within 30" of the this model, before they roll any dice, you may roll a dice. On a 4+ that unit takes d3 mortal wounds. On a 6+ that spell instantly fails, do not make a casting roll for it.

Waaagh! Magiks: Wizards attempting to cast spells from the Lore of the Great Waaagh! or a warscroll with the Great Waaagh! keyword are not affected by this model.

Scenery Piece

Great Waaagh! Banner

• After both players have finished deploying you may deploy this scenery piece within 1" of a friendly unit. 
• Whenever a Friendly unit within 1" the Great Waaagh! keyword moves, you may move the Great Waaagh! Banner the up to that units movement characteristic. It must finish this move within 1" of that unit.
• All Great Waaagh! units wholly within 18" of the Great Waaagh! Banner at the start of the combat phase may reroll any failed wound rolls made during that combat phase.
• At the end of each combat phase roll a dice for each Great Waaagh! unit under the effects of the Great Waaagh! Banner. Add 1 for every 10 models slain during that combat phase. On a 6+ that unit may instantly pile in and attack again.

This would be pure money

[PlasticCraic]

@Backbreaker they get a lot of benefit from charging you. So if you charge them instead, and just tie them up with something expendable, you're significantly reducing their output. 

Hypersnare Seeds can help too. 

[Luzgurbel]

GW has updated Skavens, Flesh eaters and now Khorne hordes. I really expect they update Ironjawz soon. 

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

This would be pure money

I had a thought for at least one more endless spell.

Endless Battleground CV8 set up this model up wholly within 12" of the caster and wholly within 12" of the centre of the battlefield.

While this model is on the battlefield all units automatically pass battleshock tests and any attack or ability which rolls against a units bravery automatically fails.

When a Great Waaagh! Model rolls an unmodified 6 to wound with a melee weapon while wholly within 18" of this model your opponent does not make a save roll against that attack, it is automatically successful. In addition if that attack has a random damage value it instead deals the maximum possible damage.

[Gothmaug]

The LVO preview banner for the new battletomes has 2 factions prominently displayed on the banner for each grand alliance. Destruction shows Ogers and Gloomspite.We just got gloomspite, so I suspect the other destruction time for the year will be a revamped gut busters Or beast claw raiders.

 

.....but do I also spy a possible doom diver in the far background? Perhaps the greenskins and gitmobs might get some loving? Probably wishful thinking, considering we just got a new gobbo army released.

[Malakree]

21 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

The LVO preview banner for the new battletomes has 2 factions prominently displayed on the banner for each grand alliance. Destruction shows Ogers and Gloomspite.We just got gloomspite, so I suspect the other destruction time for the year will be a revamped gut busters Or beast claw raiders.

 

.....but do I also spy a possible doom diver in the far background? Perhaps the greenskins and gitmobs might get some loving? Probably wishful thinking, considering we just got a new gobbo army released.

The only picture on that banner which isn't the historic picture for it's faction is the chaos one this is the picture for Age of Sigmar 2.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Malakree

[Gothmaug]

4 minutes ago, Malakree said:

The only picture on that banner which isn't the historic picture for it's faction is the chaos one this is the picture for Age of Sigmar 2.

Thanks Malakree, that’s a great observation! Alright, here’s hoping for some Ironjawz updates then!

 

I’d love if we absorbed the Greenskins and Gitmobs (with revamped rules) It fits my image of the endless hordes following in Gordrakks wake. And if they survive long enough, they peel the armor from a dead aardboy for an instant promotion!

 

Also some gitmob artillery would be a welcome addition. There’s no reason we need to be a range-less army anymore. 

[tolstedt]

16 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

Could you explain what you mean ? I open my GH2018 and I don't see why this command trait would help against eels... I love the idea of counter charging but unlike 40k, charging doesn't give you the ability to first strike. And even if it was the case, on turn 3, deepkin always strike first ^^

You counter charge the eels with 10 ardboyz and the eels are stuck there.

[tolstedt]

16 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

Could you explain what you mean ? I open my GH2018 and I don't see why this command trait would help against eels... I love the idea of counter charging but unlike 40k, charging doesn't give you the ability to first strike. And even if it was the case, on turn 3, deepkin always strike first ^^

You counter charge the eels with 10 ardboyz and the eels are stuck there.

[Skabnoze]

As much as I would love to see new kits for Ironjawz, I think they could also split the brutes and gore grunta units into 2 units each based upon the weapon options in the box.  That would allow them to play with the unit stats and abilities and make both options useful choices while also adding more unit variety into the army.

That said, I really think that the Ironjawz are missing hero variety.  I would really like to see an Ardboyz hero or two added to the army and at least one other Ironjawz hero option.

[novakai]

3 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

As much as I would love to see new kits for Ironjawz, I think they could also split the brutes and gore grunta units into 2 units each based upon the weapon options in the box.  That would allow them to play with the unit stats and abilities and make both options useful choices while also adding more unit variety into the army.

That said, I really think that the Ironjawz are missing hero variety.  I would really like to see an Ardboyz hero or two added to the army and at least one other Ironjawz hero option.

Megaboss on Goregrunta would be my pick for a new hero

of course when Ironjawz get endless spell and spell lore, I do hope the Weirdnob get a bit of a boost. He not a bad caster by any means but he does feel a bit weak currently

granted with the Khrone Endless Phenomena coming up there is room non magical endless spells too

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

As much as I would love to see new kits for Ironjawz, I think they could also split the brutes and gore grunta units into 2 units each based upon the weapon options in the box.  That would allow them to play with the unit stats and abilities and make both options useful choices while also adding more unit variety into the army.

That said, I really think that the Ironjawz are missing hero variety.  I would really like to see an Ardboyz hero or two added to the army and at least one other Ironjawz hero option.

Personally I would like to see them separate Ardboys from Ironjawz then expand both factions.

I'm not sure splitting Brutes is the right thing to do, both options have a place and with the special weapons/boss weapons splitting them with the current kit would be difficult. Splitting Goregruntas is something I'd definitely get behind, you could easily make a more charge orientated option with the spears. There's definitely a ton of room to expand the Ardboy section especially with the removal of Greenskinz which frees up a bunch of design space.

If they use the newer model there's definitely no problems having "Ironjawz" be a small elite force like Troggoths. In that regards I think the only model that Ironjawz "needs" is a weirdnob on Mawkrusha model.

[Backbreaker]

We don't have a new BT yet but I still want to use my Ironjawz... and I'm trying to play them without allies.

The idea is to have one drop with a Bloodtooth battalion but even if I have 300 points of battalion, I still have 131 wounds with a 4+ save.

I don't have magic but between "Lens" and "Cuirass" I can withstand a bit of fire/lightning/whatever shenaningans.

I start with 2 CP and I have the mandatory "Brooch" so if I waaagh! first turn (if I get alpha strike), I will have at least +4 attacks.

I have three heroes at 2000 points. It's not a lot but I think it's good for Ironjawz, especially for mission where objectives are controlled by heroes.

I have 7 units, I will use Gruntas to screen my brutes and my MK (only waaagh source) from deepstriking evocators, eels charge T1/2, Nagash/umbral portal, and other tricks. I really want to make something out of Brutes and it means having something else taking ennemy fire for at least two turns.

Even with low model count units, between Bloodtooth, Gruntas and MK, I think I have a good board control and a decent mobility.

What do you think ?

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

[Skabnoze]

9 hours ago, novakai said:

Megaboss on Goregrunta would be my pick for a new hero

of course when Ironjawz get endless spell and spell lore, I do hope the Weirdnob get a bit of a boost. He not a bad caster by any means but he does feel a bit weak currently

granted with the Khrone Endless Phenomena coming up there is room non magical endless spells too

I would like that also, but I would really like to see GW expand what Ardboyz are.  Ideally I would like to see Ironjawz rolled into a larger allegiance similar to Gloomspite that brings back Greenskinz as a horde-style sub allegiance, Ironjawz as the elite allegiance, and then give Ardboyz the keywords to sit in both. Make it “Waaagh! Gordrak” or something.  Add a few new heroes - such as the boss on Goregrunta and tune up a few waracrolls and I think we would have a really great book.

[Skabnoze]

8 hours ago, Malakree said:

Personally I would like to see them separate Ardboys from Ironjawz then expand both factions.

I'm not sure splitting Brutes is the right thing to do, both options have a place and with the special weapons/boss weapons splitting them with the current kit would be difficult. 

I am not opposed to them splitting off Ardboyz.

And I agree that Brute weapon options are useful, but that still does not mean there isn’t value in creating 2 version of Brutes.  If GW wants to add some unit variety then that is a very simple option for them to do and just requires repackaging.

Is it the right thing to do?  I don’t know.  But I don’t think it is the “wrong” thing to do either.  I think it is just “a” thing they can do.  In the end it just depends on what the design team wants to do with this faction and what they have the model production bandwidth (considering other projects) to do.

However, I do think that they should split up Gore Gruntas in order to make the Hacka option worthwhile.  They could adjust the weapon profile, but it feels like they could really use some sort of lance type of special rule or something instead.

[ShaneHobbes]

3 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I am not opposed to them splitting off Ardboyz.

And I agree that Brute weapon options are useful, but that still does not mean there isn’t value in creating 2 version of Brutes.  If GW wants to add some unit variety then that is a very simple option for them to do and just requires repackaging.

Is it the right thing to do?  I don’t know.  But I don’t think it is the “wrong” thing to do either.  I think it is just “a” thing they can do.  In the end it just depends on what the design team wants to do with this faction and what they have the model production bandwidth (considering other projects) to do.

However, I do think that they should split up Gore Gruntas in order to make the Hacka option worthwhile.  They could adjust the weapon profile, but it feels like they could really use some sort of lance type of special rule or something instead.

I'd like hackas to cause mortal wounds on a charge myself. The army lacks MW output severely compared to most armies. Only way is through spells or maw krusha charge. Or a battalion that is complete garbage. 

I wouldn't mind also seeing a maw krusha without warboss warscroll. I could see it being vastly cheaper, probably like 240 pts or roughly around there.

It would be cool if they could introduce a whole new monster unit for the ironjawz. The realms, especially Ghur, have a whole wealth of nasty beasties and if they can "tame" a maw krusha why not something else, maybe something that can run in a pack or whatever  

[EatMyPanini]

Just realized that no one cares about ardfist, but wouldn’t it even be a bit good with a unit of 30-or-so Ardboys to just pop out of nowhere? I mean it’s a sure thing that if your Warchanter get sniped you’re screwed, but with some gore-gruntas you could try (like really just try) to destroy enemy snipers before anything too bad happens, and if you screen him with the remaining 2 units of 10 Ardboys of the battalion he should be ok. I may also be totally off the spot as I haven’t played any game since i’m painting my hundreds dollars of units.

anyway, may the Waaagh! be with you and good morning, evening, night or any other time of the day you’re going trought

[broche]

@Backbreaker I really suggest you use Ironsunz instead of bloodtooth. Just used it at LVO and it worked well. 

I think you should use some ardboys units too to increase your model count. GL!

[Malakree]

8 hours ago, EatMyPanini said:

Just realized that no one cares about ardfist, but wouldn’t it even be a bit good with a unit of 30-or-so Ardboys to just pop out of nowhere? I mean it’s a sure thing that if your Warchanter get sniped you’re screwed, but with some gore-gruntas you could try (like really just try) to destroy enemy snipers before anything too bad happens, and if you screen him with the remaining 2 units of 10 Ardboys of the battalion he should be ok. I may also be totally off the spot as I haven’t played any game since i’m painting my hundreds dollars of units.

anyway, may the Waaagh! be with you and good morning, evening, night or any other time of the day you’re going trought

To be honest we've come to the conclusion the ardfist might be our best list atm, it's just nobody wants to have to paint 90+ arduous to run it haha

[Backbreaker]

9 hours ago, broche said:

@Backbreaker I really suggest you use Ironsunz instead of bloodtooth. Just used it at LVO and it worked well. 

I think you should use some ardboys units too to increase your model count. GL!

Why ?

Having a terrain can help against Sylvaneths, immune to moral is always good for our units and +1 to charge is always welcome when you start with move 4" !

If I remember correctly, Ironsunz help against shooting (and shooting doesn't work well in 2nd ed) and boosts your MK ...

I'm not a huge fan of Ardboys but it's true that big unit of them would benefit from the bravery buff.

Could you share your list ? How did you do there ?  

[Andrew G]

6 hours ago, Malakree said:

To be honest we've come to the conclusion the ardfist might be our best list atm, it's just nobody wants to have to paint 90+ arduous to run it haha

Yea definitely,  I only play Gorefist because it was easier stomaching painting/moving 21 GGs compared to ~90 'ardboyz. 

I actually did play a few games w/ the artifact swaps you suggested a few months ago to the 'ardfist I posted (thermal rider on the battalion warchanter), and it drastically improved the effectiveness of the 'ardboy recycle. I defaulted back to the normal Broach/Cuirass combo though because I felt like the list needed more punching power, but with the Fungoid changes maybe it's time to revisit 'ardfist + Asqhy + Fungoids.

[EatMyPanini]

 

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

To be honest we've come to the conclusion the ardfist might be our best list atm, it's just nobody wants to have to paint 90+ arduous to run it haha

Yeah I may paint like 30 of them but i’ll probably wait until a resculpt to get more

[Malakree]

55 minutes ago, Andrew G said:

Yea definitely,  I only play Gorefist because it was easier stomaching painting/moving 21 GGs compared to ~90 'ardboyz. 

I actually did play a few games w/ the artifact swaps you suggested a few months ago to the 'ardfist I posted (thermal rider on the battalion warchanter), and it drastically improved the effectiveness of the 'ardboy recycle. I defaulted back to the normal Broach/Cuirass combo though because I felt like the list needed more punching power, but with the Fungoid changes maybe it's time to revisit 'ardfist + Asqhy + Fungoids.

It's really great when you can get them to come on in weird places isn't it  

[Malakithe]

This is exactly why we need a new book. The Ardfist being the 'best/only' real option? lol no thanks...with how much magic sniping and teleporting that exists you'll be lucky to keep that warchanter alive past turn one