Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[mystycalchemy]

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

I guess 30 liberators are bravery 9 too.

Well, the 9 bravery only matters for Bravery based spells or attacks, as they go down to 8 bravery as soon as they lose a model.

[rokapoke]

45 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

Well, the 9 bravery only matters for Bravery based spells or attacks, as they go down to 8 bravery as soon as they lose a model.

I dunno, the way I read the rules on the Battleshock Phase, it seems like that bravery boost is only for "the Bravery characteristic being used," which seems to be in reference to the battleshock test itself. For spells and attacks, I'm not so sure that the large unit bonus would apply.

[mmimzie]

8 hours ago, rokapoke said:

I dunno, the way I read the rules on the Battleshock Phase, it seems like that bravery boost is only for "the Bravery characteristic being used," which seems to be in reference to the battleshock test itself. For spells and attacks, I'm not so sure that the large unit bonus would apply.

You are correct as far as i understand and have read it only boost bravery for battle shock test. For the star drake list do they make his save a 2+ rerollable. What do they use to accomplish that??

[Richelieu]

14 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

You are correct as far as i understand and have read it only boost bravery for battle shock test. For the star drake list do they make his save a 2+ rerollable. What do they use to accomplish that??

 

We make it a 1+ rerollable.  Staunch defender command trait plus warding lantern from a Lord Castellant on top of a natural 3+ rerolling 1s.  You can really only kill him with mortals or rend 3 attacks (or a huge number of rend 2 attacks).

[kuroyume]

What would a suggested initial warband for Path to Glory be? We have a campaign starting soon and so far in testing I've been running Lord Celestant, 5 Liberators, 3 Prosecutors and 5 Retributors, but so far I've gotten rolled over twice, once by Tzeench and another time by Legions of Nagash (as an aside, the LoN Path to Glory table seems to me to be insanely imbalanced).

Would a better starting point be to trade the liberators and prosecutors for a unit of Judicators? Keep them at range to soften up big enemies and drop the Celestant and Retributors with Scions of the Storm near value targets?

I'm still pretty new to the game and it has been a bit demoralizing getting wiped off the table in less than three turns in both games, so any ideas are welcome.

[Freejack02]

3 hours ago, kuroyume said:

What would a suggested initial warband for Path to Glory be? We have a campaign starting soon and so far in testing I've been running Lord Celestant, 5 Liberators, 3 Prosecutors and 5 Retributors, but so far I've gotten rolled over twice, once by Tzeench and another time by Legions of Nagash (as an aside, the LoN Path to Glory table seems to me to be insanely imbalanced).

Would a better starting point be to trade the liberators and prosecutors for a unit of Judicators? Keep them at range to soften up big enemies and drop the Celestant and Retributors with Scions of the Storm near value targets?

I'm still pretty new to the game and it has been a bit demoralizing getting wiped off the table in less than three turns in both games, so any ideas are welcome.

Yeah, it's sad to say but PtG isn't terribly balanced now that the new books have included their post-campaign tables - LoN is especially offensive and there have been posts about it. I would definitely drop the Paladins, as they won't be very good without tailoring a list around them. Mobility and shooting work well, and mortal wounds are still a problem.

I would compare the LoN table to all others and maybe ask the player to tone it back - it's about twice as strong as every other faction in the game for some strange reason. 

[kuroyume]

1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

I would definitely drop the Paladins, as they won't be very good without tailoring a list around them. Mobility and shooting work well, and mortal wounds are still a problem.

Hmmm.. I think I'll trade the Retributors for a pack of Judicators and maybe upgrade to the Lord Celestant on Dracoth for more mobility.

[PJetski]

Has anyone made a cool conversion for their Lord Celestant on foot? I'm not a big fan of that sculpt

[BURF1]

On 4/30/2018 at 8:35 PM, blueshirtman said:

That is a stupid argument. The only people that could do it are those who have a ton of cash, and those that have a ton of cash spend it at clubs and on cars or bikes. You want people to buy "what they like" not use what is tried and is good. when someone wants to learn how to learn to ride a bike you tell them to buy a ton of parts and try to build their own bike, and not buy one a store or a tried one from second hand? It has nothing to do with wanting to be a tournament player, I doubt any person in the world can live out of those or support their hobby with wins.  No one, unless the game is really played in a different way in the west, would want to spend 600$ on something they "like" and then find out they bought a pile of plastic and that now, if they want to play they will have to spend another 600$, which if they again pick based on what they "like", means they will buy stuff over and over again. till either they have all models from a faction, or maybe even all factions OR they quit. And this is only good for people that sell the models or hold GW stock .

 

also what does painting have to do with anything, its is not even obligatory for all tournaments?

...Okay, so I'm a very competitive player personally, to the point where I don't do many pick up games because I usually feel bad after, and even I think this is total nonsense. Why does having tons of money automatically make you interested in clubs or cars or bikes? i don't care if I was a billionaire, Clubs are loud and full of obnoxious morons, cars are just big cash disposal units, and bikes are stupid. You always buy what you like, the amount of money you make is irrelevant.

The rest of this makes me wonder if you've ever actually played against someone else before. I'm admin of a facebook group for AoS and 40k of over 300 people and I see literally tens of thousands of dollars of non-competitive, even trash-tier models being bought, built, and painted pretty much every day. I have 2 friends working on building an all squig list for the adepticon team tournament next year just for the giggles(and interestingly, because the list they brought this year got a lot of flak for being 'cheese' and they wanted this years list to be weaker.) And...dude...it's always a pile of plastic. It being good on the table doesn't change that. Besides, for a lot of people who play AoS, gaming is their smallest amount of time investment. The hobby has a few main things you invest time in:  list building, assembly, painting, playing. The majority of players spend most of their time painting(tournament players have to have well painted armies to compete at high levels, then you have hobbyists, display painters, 'painted only' groups, etc.) I personally spend the largest amount of time list building. I would say for every hour i spend building lists I spend about 25 minutes painting, 10 minutes playing, and 5-6 minutes assembling. Plenty of people even spend most of their time assembling. I know several people who spend several hours a week converting models they'll never paint or play with.

Oh and about spending 600$. Let me tell you the story of Grundstock Thunderers. See Thunderers were a unit that had several different weapon options but only one of each in the box. The weapons were very powerful, however, so many people went out and bought as many as TWENTY boxes of thunderers for their competitive Kharadron armies. They built them, painted them, and got ready to take them to large tournaments where surely their investment would be rewarded. Until GW realized that people were taking units of all of 1 type of gun and buffing the bezeesus out of them with Aether Khemists, and so GW did decide to murder Thunderers into the ground by changing their warscroll to make them completely unusable, and all the people who bought Grundstock Thunderers for their power were sad. Moral of the story? Buying something you like is always a safer investment than buying something powerful, although buying something that's both is obviously the best option.

The TL:DR of the above paragraph is that your 600$ thing is actually the opposite. What's powerful changes much more often than what you like. You only have to spend that 600$ if you're chasing competitive strength. And if you ONLY buy based on competitive strength, you'll have to change even more. In fact, you have to jump armies a lot.

The bike analogy is also silly, they're still going to have a broad selection of bikes to choose from and which one they go with is always going to be the one they like best. It's actually exactly counter to your point.

 

Wow, both of your analogies actually proved the opposite point. Neat.

 

[blueshirtman]

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Why does having tons of money automatically make you interested in clubs or cars or bikes?

I don't know, but anyone in my country who has a more money does a combination of clubing, cars or bikes and drugs. The only people that act different are people from minorities, but those after WWII are limited to a few cities that were not burned to the ground. My dad says it has to do with most of population coming from rural areas, and there to this day the idea for fun, is get drunk, drive drunk and beat up people from other villages. No idea how accurate this is though.

Quote

You always buy what you like, the amount of money you make is irrelevant.

I wanted to play KO, didn't have the money for it though. The people at my store told me to get beastclaw riders, because they were the cheapest AoS army and people were having  limited success with it.  But to not just make it all about me, I know a ton of people in different gaming systems that bought models or whole armies, just because they work, and did not buy armies they liked the looks off.

 

43 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

The rest of this makes me wonder if you've ever actually played against someone else before. I'm admin of a facebook group for AoS and 40k of over 300 people and I see literally tens of thousands of dollars of non-competitive, even trash-tier models being bought, built, and painted pretty much every day.

How many of them live in eastern europe? Because on this very forum I have learned that the social cultural aspects have a huge impact on how the game is played. To go to your later argument how the game is made out of different parts not just playing, where I live, not carring about anything but gaming is normal. Not all people are like that, but if someone says that he isn't interested in fluff and painted, and is not an end game tournament player, is not considered uncommon.  Also something like a non-competitive army does not exist here, unless it is the situation of someone like me, who bought an army that was suppose to work, got nerfed or got worse with new armies coming out, and now they are stuck with a bad army. Can't sell it, because there is no local market for bad armies, and saving up for a new army means years of waiting, and that is assuming nothing for school is needed, parents don't lose their jobs etc.

 

1 hour ago, BURF1 said:

 

1 hour ago, BURF1 said:

 

45 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

I have 2 friends working on building an all squig list for the adepticon team tournament next year just for the giggles

See and here we reach one of the differences. At my store out of 30+ people playing only the vets who already have multiple armies, most of them started in the 90s, are the only ones who can get a new army each year. Everyone else is stuck with what they got for 2-3 years, because of the cost. And even then getting a second army is only possible when the first army gets sold. No giggles happen here. It is also why advice in form of, just buy 300$ of stuff and check stuff up, maybe it works, makes me angry.

Quote

And...dude...it's always a pile of plastic. It being good on the table doesn't change that.

It is true. Plastic models are always plastic. But them making a good army is the most important thing. Again imagine you spend  money on something, and it doesn't work at all. Wouldn't you be at least a bit dissatisifed? the only time you wouldn't be,  if the amount of money spend was inconsequential.

And that is always relative for one person 800$ is 2 years of saving and for another, is part of their quarterlly hobby fund.

Quote

I personally spend the largest amount of time list building.

That is cool, and I envy you. Beasclaw raiders lists build themselfs and have 0 varity in them, and not just because I own a limited collection of models. People were actually ok with me proxing stuff a few months ago.

 

54 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Moral of the story? Buying something you like is always a safer investment than buying something powerful, although buying something that's both is obviously the best option.

No it only means, that if you don't have money you end up with a bad army, what ever you like it or not. If someone had money to buy 20 boxs to get 4 units with the same weapon load out, then they are in the group that has enough money to buy more stuff. Now am not saying this doesn't suck, or that people wouldn't get very salty about it, they would of course.

 

57 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

The TL:DR of the above paragraph is that your 600$ thing is actually the opposite. What's powerful changes much more often than what you like. You only have to spend that 600$ if you're chasing competitive strength. And if you ONLY buy based on competitive strength, you'll have to change even more. In fact, you have to jump armies a lot.

 I bougth two beastclaw starters with money I have been saving for over 3 years, and selling all my other stuff, to win big tournaments. For sure I did that because of that.

 

Quote

The bike analogy is also silly, they're still going to have a broad selection of bikes to choose from and which one they go with is always going to be the one they like best. It's actually exactly counter to your point.

I don't know how your bike stores look like, but here we have three options of bikes. Adult male, female and for kids. Anything else you have to be rich enough to import one or parts to get one. But this means either huge tax on import goods or paying bribes at the custom. So the one you "like" is the one you can get and the broad selection only exists if your a girl, because you can pick out of 3 versions. While if your a dude you will get the adult bike, because your parents won't want to buy  you two bikes.

 

[blueshirtman]

On 1.05.2018 at 9:19 AM, Turragor said:

@blueshirtman I was trying to highlight that lists aren't everything. I don't usually brag. If it seemed I was then I'm sorry to those who dislike it.

But don't be rude man. It's not cool and I don't find it gels with how AoS and the community feels when you play games (I always meet nice people).

We have a saying here that says that all the nice people are dead. I have never met anyone nice in my life. I also don't think, I was rude.  The examples given go against everything I have ever seen in my, although short am not some veteran from the 90s, career in playing tabletops or ccg. The lists are everything, if they are bad, then it is unfun to play them. You can have fun because of doing other stuff with them, but it is not playing, so is not related to it. Someone who paints can paint a bad army, to win painting events or to have a studio to sell his models to western countries. But if someone likes to paint, but sucks at it, and gets constanatly made fun of by other painters at the store, they quit even faster then people who are just in to gaming. Same with people who play only because of friends. Take away the social aspect, or friends stop liking them because of somethings, and they may not even be let in to the store. Sometimes it can be something as simple as them moving to a district that supports another football team, and they become instant enemy.

[Kako]

9 hours ago, PJetski said:

Has anyone made a cool conversion for their Lord Celestant on foot? I'm not a big fan of that sculpt

I just did a Lord Zephacleas (Astral Templars) and I'm about to make a Excelsior Warriest using a second LC body. This is the only picture I have now. I'll take more tomorrow and post it here on the gallery if you are interested.

 

[Wolfman]

9 hours ago, PJetski said:

Has anyone made a cool conversion for their Lord Celestant on foot? I'm not a big fan of that sculpt

Working on one using Neave Blacktalon. Weapon swaps and possible head swap.

[Turragor]

11 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

We have a saying here that says that all the nice people are dead. I have never met anyone nice in my life.

That saying is bananas! haha

Which country are you from out of curiosity? I live in Sweden.

One thing I'm interested in is the contrasting experiences in your time at your LGS and your friend's (who got the stuff). Why so different? It can't really be list related can it?

This is kind of what I'm talking about. You say lists are everything but in my experience not really - top tables in a tourney sure. They matter there.

Most of what you last wrote to me was something I'd consider rude. Not, like, terribly so. Just curt and impolite.

But if you meant nothing by it then you meant no harm.

[kuroyume]

14 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

No giggles happen here

 

14 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

But if someone likes to paint, but sucks at it, and gets constanatly made fun of by other painters at the store, they quit even faster then people who are just in to gaming.

Honestly, it sounds like the problem is with your local community more than the game. in my local community, if someone openly made fun of a model someone else painted they would be ostracized, probably also kicked out of the local gaming store if that's where it happened. If you don't enjoy gaming with the established community, start your own: recruit the people you enoy playing with, and leave the toxic people to be toxic to each other.

[Mila il Bello]

I'm excited a lot with the SCE, so I decided to draw up a first introductory list to analyze a sensible route to any purchases.
I love the models of the Dracoth Guard and the Stardrake, so my goal is to make a list that revolves around them. To start and not to overdo the costs but I thought of the following.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (100)
- General
Knight-Heraldor (120)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Units
2 x Fulminators (240)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
- 1x Stormsurge Tridents

Total: 980/1000
Allies: 0/200
Wounds: 57

 

The Castellant has no objects because I'm still undecided, of course I can replace one of the two heroes with the Lord Celestian on foot of the starter set.
I like the Heraldor because it allows the Fulminators to charge quickly, I'm not convinced by  5 liberators but my choices are dictated by targeted purchases and trying to waste less money possible:

1 SC starter set
1 Judicators
1 Dracoth Guards
2 single heroes

The two-player starter, despite being cheap and attractive, I do not like it because it does not allow me to use special weapons and unnecessary Prosecutors and Retributors inside.  I can not have the Relictor and the Celestian on the Dracoth, as long as the GW will not make a special kit for the Relictor, I'll have to look for a way to self-build it.

I await advice

[suedester]

30 minutes ago, Mila il Bello said:

I'm excited a lot with the SCE, so I decided to draw up a first introductory list to analyze a sensible route to any purchases.
I love the models of the Dracoth Guard and the Stardrake, so my goal is to make a list that revolves around them. To start and not to overdo the costs but I thought of the following.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (100)
- General
Knight-Heraldor (120)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Units
2 x Fulminators (240)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
- 1x Stormsurge Tridents

Total: 980/1000
Allies: 0/200
Wounds: 57

 

The Castellant has no objects because I'm still undecided, of course I can replace one of the two heroes with the Lord Celestian on foot of the starter set.
I like the Heraldor because it allows the Fulminators to charge quickly, I'm not convinced by  5 liberators but my choices are dictated by targeted purchases and trying to waste less money possible:

1 SC starter set
1 Judicators
1 Dracoth Guards
2 single heroes

The two-player starter, despite being cheap and attractive, I do not like it because it does not allow me to use special weapons and unnecessary Prosecutors and Retributors inside.  I can not have the Relictor and the Celestian on the Dracoth, as long as the GW will not make a special kit for the Relictor, I'll have to look for a way to self-build it.

I await advice

You can buy the Relictor on eBay pretty cheaply.

[Marzillius]

I played in a 36 man tournament this weekend and came in at second place with this Stormcast list:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth (Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Keen-clawed)
Lord-Aquilor
Lord-Castellant

5 Liberators (Hammers & Shields, Grandhammer)
5 Liberators (Hammers & Shields, Grandhammer)
5 Liberators (Hammers & Shields, Grandhammer)

4 Fulminators
2 Tempestors
6 Vanguard-Palladors (Javelins)

It worked surprisingly well, the Fulminators gets mega armour buffed and hit hard, the Palladors are an unknown unit for many but they are fast and hit hard enough to take down major units and kick objective campers off their objectives. The Liberators just come down and grab points and the Tempestors suppress the most dangerous enemy unit (Nagash, Morathi etc) and the characters tag along. The Aquilor often outflanks and shows up behind unexpecting opponents to assassinate characters to tie stuff up. He dies basically every game, but he often proves his worth (like taking 3 wounds off Morathi before she transformed, leaving her monster form with 6 wounds). I faced a Nagash list, Daughters of Khaine, Fatesword Warband, Beastclaw Raiders and Mixed Order.

The Nagash list was defeated because it's easy to claim the objectives once you've killed the skeletons, Nagash himself can only hold one you know. Daughters was just a straight up slugfest which I won through superior armour and arms  (and because Morathi got halved as an elf, hehe). I lost vs Fatesworn because I played too aggressively and failed at my target priority (should have killed the big Warrior unit to get more points in the end). I won vs Beastclaw because both his Thundertusks missed their 6 mortal wound snowballs first turn, then I got double turn and killed 3 monsters, the Palladors really excelled here since they don't care about the Stonehorn's damage halving because of their damage 1 across all their attacks. I won vs Mixed Order because I rolled a lucky 10" charge with my Fulminators against 40 unbuffed skinks, deleting them, and because a single Pallador took 3 wounds off Morathi in his turn (which means Morathi dies in turn 2). After that it was just clean-up.

I really recommend Vanguard-Palladors, their power is really underestimated. I'm going to play a list with 12 of them soon.

[Freejack02]

2 hours ago, Marzillius said:

I played in a 36 man tournament this weekend and came in at second place with this Stormcast list:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth (Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Keen-clawed)
Lord-Aquilor
Lord-Castellant

5 Liberators (Hammers & Shields, Grandhammer)
5 Liberators (Hammers & Shields, Grandhammer)
5 Liberators (Hammers & Shields, Grandhammer)

4 Fulminators
2 Tempestors
6 Vanguard-Palladors (Javelins)

Very nice to hear! I've wondered how effective Palladors are for their points, I'll have to try out 6 of them. 

[chord]

I've used a unit of 3 palladors.  They were tanky but didn't deal much damage.  I like the idea of 6 though!

[CountryMou3e]

Palladors are in an odd place, for me there are cheaper objective grabbing units or similar points value units that just deal more damage. I love what they do but I just always choose fulms (because why wouldn’t you). 

Purely my opinion, palladors need to hit harder and or charge after winds for about 250 or they need to stay as is but come done to 200 or so. 

On the flip side of this, they probably are balanced in terms of points, it’s the other options that are more efficient ?

[Marzillius]

I would never replace the Fulminators with Palladors, Fulminators are the heavy hitters of the list, but they don't have the mobility of the Palladors. If they could charge after riding the winds that would be mega broken, I mostly use the ability to escape losing combats and dash to unoccupied or lightly defended objectives, or to get in position if I'm gambling for a double turn. Palladors are also point-for-points more resilient against mortal wounds, which is the bane of Dracoth units.

But basically, if you have 480 points to spend, take the Fulminators. But try them in conjuction with Palladors some time, you'll be pleasantly surprised I think.

Also a unit of 3 is useless, they aren't resilient enough and they don't hit hard enough. You need 6 or more for them to really get going.

[DanielFM]

As it didn't get a lot of attention last time and Palladors are being discussed right now, I bring this "trick" again:

Tangentially related to this, I thought a combo which could make Palladors a bit more interesting (even if still weak and less desirable than Dracothian Guard).

You can use Warding Lantern and Blessed Weapons (I know, 4+ is gamble) on a Palladors unit first turn when there is less pressure to use those buffs. Then, a Lord Aquilor teleport them and himself to the opponent's deployment zone, leaving the hero protected from charges and giving the unit the Staunch Defender aura.

You get 9 chances to trigger blessed 6's in the shooting phase, then you try the 7" charge. You fail? They are a 2+ save, heals on 5+, 15 wounds annoyance in the back. You success? You get 12 attacks to roll the exploding 6s.

All without paying for anything you wouldn't already field (except maybe the Palladors).

Can you do it with Dracoths? Yeah, but you need an additional Relictor, and you risk not rolling the 3+ from LC.

Sounds fun, even if not game-breaking.

•  

[chord]

22 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

As it didn't get a lot of attention last time and Palladors are being discussed right now, I bring this "trick" again:

Tangentially related to this, I thought a combo which could make Palladors a bit more interesting (even if still weak and less desirable than Dracothian Guard).

You can use Warding Lantern and Blessed Weapons (I know, 4+ is gamble) on a Palladors unit first turn when there is less pressure to use those buffs. Then, a Lord Aquilor teleport them and himself to the opponent's deployment zone, leaving the hero protected from charges and giving the unit the Staunch Defender aura.

You get 9 chances to trigger blessed 6's in the shooting phase, then you try the 7" charge. You fail? They are a 2+ save, heals on 5+, 15 wounds annoyance in the back. You success? You get 12 attacks to roll the exploding 6s.

All without paying for anything you wouldn't already field (except maybe the Palladors).

Can you do it with Dracoths? Yeah, but you need an additional Relictor, and you risk not rolling the 3+ from LC.

Sounds fun, even if not game-breaking.

•  

I thought blessed weapons didn't explode like that.   I thought it was worded so as a 6 gives you one extra attack total, not that each 6 gives you an extra attack?

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, chord said:

I thought blessed weapons didn't explode like that.   I thought it was worded so as a 6 gives you one extra attack total, not that each 6 gives you an extra attack?

Hmmm, I will check it out. But my battletome is in Spanish so don't take my word for gospel.