Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[bsharitt]

54 minutes ago, lolwut said:

That is entirely possible, but in 40k your characters can activate their abilities at no cost. Command points are spent strictly on stratagems. 

The article specifically talks about command points being used for command abilities and there's not been a hint of strategems coming to AoS.

[lolwut]

22 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

The article specifically talks about command points being used for command abilities and there's not been a hint of strategems coming to AoS.

Yes there are, the three general ones they provided are stratagems, just with a different name. There will also be specific ways to use them for each GA. At least this is how I read it. While you may be right that model specific abilities could cost command points, I don't know if that's a certainty just yet. It is possible. 

[mikethefish]

1 hour ago, Furuzzolo said:

"There’s a twist, however – to use any of your command abilities, you’ll need a new resource, known as command points. "

Btw that's the wording on the article. So even your general need command points to use his command ability. Imho.

 

Yes, technically...but in practicality it's almost better

From what we can glean from the article, using a Command Ability costs a single Command Point.  Also, according to the article, an army gets 1 Command Point per round.

So in essence, a General can use his one Command Ability per round, just like in 1st edition.  The difference is that  he can stock up a point here and there, if he choses not to use his Ability - thereby allowing multiple Command Abilities to be used in future rounds.  Or other heroes can use their own Abilities, for the same 1 Point cost.

Functionally, it's a strictly superior system than in 1st edition.

[Turragor]

Hysteria has taken over the boards in some senses :D

It's like a bunch have said: wait to see the full details before selecting extra high blood pressure.

 

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

They are adding a magic supplement to the game. Stormcast can Ally any order faction, so it makes sense to release stormcast wizards so everyone can participate.

I think that GW is very smart with their release schedule for Stormcasts. The only standalone stormcast release has been Extremists chamber. The original release dropped with khorne bloodbound, the Varanguard release dropped with Nurgle, and now the Sacrosanct is dropping with Nighthaunt.  Releasing stormcast is not taking away potential releases for other factions. 

Vanguard Chamber was a separate release in early 2017 - Blightwar came months later

[Aeryenn]

7 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Functionally, it's a strictly superior system than in 1st edition.

Yes, I agree but still if an army had a strong general, like a Treelord Ancient with his ability to reroll saves of 1 I don’t see how those command points will influence that army's game. If only one point is generated a turn then in my case I would always spend it on a TLA. Maybe other armies have like two types of heroes - those better at the beginning and those more suitable for end game and they will benefit more from that system. I just wished it was your general's command ability + 1 more of another hero. 

[Karol]

6 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Hysteria has taken over the boards in some senses D

It's like a bunch have said: wait to see the full details before selecting extra high blood pressure.

 

Well I could imagine that if someone build and bought a list less then a year or so ago, and now worry that it could just be made void under new rules, they are rightly having high blood pressure.  I guess the same could be true with people with armies that are bad right now, who think their armies won't get fixed.

I technicly shouldn't worry, because I didn't invest much, but I still do.

[TheOtherJosh]

Just now, Tittliewinks22 said:

Releasing stormcast is not taking away potential releases for other factions. 

It could have been Death VS Destruction or Chaos. Or Chaos VS Destruction. Or Death vs “another order faction that isn’t Stormcast.”

But we know that this is “Age Of Sigmar” ... so one could argue that the SCE are the  poster boys (and now girls) of the newest edition.

I’d like to see a new “Primary Starter Box” set that didn’t have SCE as one of the factions.

[Infeston]

11 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Hysteria has taken over the boards in some senses D

It's like a bunch have said: wait to see the full details before selecting extra high blood pressure.

 

I wouldn't call it hysteria. I have not seen anyone screaming that world if going to end. I find most of the critique to be reasonable. 

And at the moment we can only speculate on the things we already know. Everytime I read criticism on rules on this board some person appears and tells the people to stop criticising while in the end the critique is very valid in the end. 

I have seen many people telling people who criticized rule changes, to stop complaining, while most of the time they were right. So I won't undermine people's criticism  or claim they are just hysteric. 

 

And why not voice your opinion directly before seeing the rest of the changes?  Who does it hurt if people voice their opinion or discuss rules before everything is published?

[Aelfric]

I'm not convinced that items will bought with command points and I don't think it has been stated yet (correct me if I'm wrong).  If it is so, then you will need to spend your first turn point and any from battalions before the game begins.  This means you then have to chose between items or command abilities.  Maybe this is what GW intends; we'll just have to wait and see.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Aelfric said:

I'm not convinced that items will bought with command points and I don't think it has been stated yet (correct me if I'm wrong).  If it is so, then you will need to spend your first turn point and any from battalions before the game begins.  This means you then have to chose between items or command abilities.  Maybe this is what GW intends; we'll just have to wait and see.

First one is free, additional artifacts purchased with command points (which come from battalions)

It would work exactly like it works now, but with more options.

[Turragor]

6 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I wouldn't call it hysteria. I have not seen anyone screaming that world if going to end. I find most of the critique to be reasonable. 

And at the moment we can only speculate on the things we already know. Everytime I read criticism on rules on this board some person appears and tells the people to stop criticising while in the end the critique is very valid in the end. 

I have seen many people telling people who criticized rule changes, to stop complaining, while most of the time they were right. So I won't undermine people's criticism  or claim they are just hysteric. 

I see what you mean but most of the critique is without seeing the big picture so it's (largely) wasted. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's sort of like being told you are being treated to lunch then having the meal spelled out to you over a few days, a few letters at a time.

Maybe it's going to be a nice mushroom salami pizza but when the spelling game reaches M-U-S-H a table gets flipped. "WHY ARE THEY GIVING ME MUSH!?"

Only those who were a bit upset because they thought it'd be mushroom and they don't like that are near the mark (but maybe that's just one of the dishes on offer.

...

Wow! Weird analogy

[mikethefish]

8 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Yes, I agree but still if an army had a strong general, like a Treelord Ancient with his ability to reroll saves of 1 I don’t see how those command points will influence that army's game. If only one point is generated a turn then in my case I would always spend it on a TLA. Maybe other armies have like two types of heroes - those better at the beginning and those more suitable for end game and they will benefit more from that system. I just wished it was your general's command ability + 1 more of another hero. 

 

From what we can see, you get one for free, and then generate one each hero phase.  So you will always have one "spare" Command Point (the free one you get at the game's start) - plus whatever you generate from battalions.  

So even with your Tree Lord Ancient example, you are still getting at least one bonus Command Ability to use in-game (even if you eschew battalions)

[Infeston]

11 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I see what you mean but most of the critique is without seeing the big picture so it's (largely) wasted. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I understand what you mean. But I don't know where you see fury and anger. Just because many people are voicing concerns? In my opinion it is always a good indicator if a large group voices their opinion about something that this is an important matter to discuss, I also don't think that critique can be wasted. 

I think that is what the warhammer community is also about. Discussing rumors or talking about rule changes or implications on the game. 

Why shouldn't people voice their concerns?

The last time Destruction players voiced their concerns about the BCR changes they were also told to wait and stop complainingfor the big picture. But in the end there was nothing to compensate for the changes. 

I still think the idea to tie command points to battalions is a bad idea. Even if there are other changes coming. It's just an unfair advantage. And I don't know why I shouldn't voice my opinion on this topic. 

The only way for a community to develop is through an open discourse which respects different opinions and encourages people to voice the concerns and opinions. Everytime someone tells other people they shouldn't complain or voice their concerns is undermining the autonomy of those people or the community in my eyes.

 

I think a good community also has to endure the critique on itself if it wants to stay vital and healthy.

[PJetski]

How many lists with battalions have multiple worthwhile command abilities to use?

1 extra command point per battalion is not a lot. Extra command points are only as powerful as the command abilities that you have access to. Nobody is going to spam battalions to reroll a charge.

There are so many unknowns right now and trying to draw any conclusion is foolish at best and panic at worst.

[DanielFM]

26 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

 

From what we can see, you get one for free, and then generate one each hero phase.  So you will always have one "spare" Command Point (the free one you get at the game's start) - plus whatever you generate from battalions.  

So even with your Tree Lord Ancient example, you are still getting at least one bonus Command Ability to use in-game (even if you eschew battalions)

They said nothing about 1 free to start. They give you one for each battalion, then 1 each turn.

Is that your guess or is it based on actual info?

[michu]

Yes, they said about it. You get one at the start of each turn and 1 for each battalion at the start of the game: "you’ll receive one to add to your pool every turn, and you’ll get an additional point at the beginning of the game per warscroll battalion you’ve used.".

[Infeston]

2 minutes ago, michu said:

Yes, they said about it. You get one at the start of each turn and 1 for each battalion at the start of the game: "you’ll receive one to add to your pool every turn, and you’ll get an additional point at the beginning of the game per warscroll battalion you’ve used.".

But again. I asked the question before. Does "turn" mean every player's turn? Or does it mean every battleround?

Normally if you only receive one command point per battle round the wording is often "At the start of the battle round" or "every battle round".

But the wording is "every turn", which could mean "your turn" and "the enemy turn". Does anyone have suggestions what might be right?

[michu]

Well, they didn't specify. In my opinion it would probably be "your turn", but new Inspiring Presence sounds like it could be used in your opponent's turn.

[daedalus81]

4 hours ago, Infeston said:

Jeah I have red this and have to say I am really disappointed that the amount of command points depends on how many warscroll battalions you use.

I had hoped warscroll battalions might not play such a big role in the new edition, but I think I was wrong. I don't like this change. 

Factions with less access to battalions or where the battalions cost very much are at a disadvantage. I really don't like this. 

 

Now there are even more advantages tied to battalions. How could GW include this? In my opinion it does nothing for the balance of the game.

 

Why not give every player the same amount of command points every turn? This would be "balanced". I really don't like battalions as a mechanic in AoS at all. It is just an unfair mechanic.

Well - I have good news.  GW is willing to make sweeping changes through FAQs.  40K received some recently.  Play with these for a while.  See how they work.   And if they aren't great give feedback and GW will tweak it.

Easy peasy.

[stato]

20 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I understand what you mean. But I don't know where you see fury and anger. Just because many people are voicing concerns? In my opinion it is always a good indicator if a large group voices their opinion about something that this is an important matter to discuss, I also don't think that critique can be wasted. 

I think that is what the warhammer community is also about. Discussing rumors or talking about rule changes or implications on the game. 

Why shouldn't people voice their concerns?

The last time Destruction players voiced their concerns about the BCR changes they were also told to wait and stop complainingfor the big picture. But in the end there was nothing to compensate for the changes. 

I still think the idea to tie command points to battalions is a bad idea. Even if there are other changes coming. It's just an unfair advantage. And I don't know why I shouldn't voice my opinion on this topic. 

The only way for a community to develop is through an open discourse which respects different opinions and encourages people to voice the concerns and opinions. Everytime someone tells other people they shouldn't complain or voice their concerns is undermining the autonomy of those people or the community in my eyes.

 

I think a good community also has to endure the critique on itself if it wants to stay vital and healthy.

You can critique, when you have the information to do so.  Not liking something using the reference of how it was done previously but knowing changes are probable, and then complaining anyway, is not constructive and cant be discussed. It tends to be frowned upon here because it just descends to name calling and grammar pendants. However, you are being considerate and explaining your view and reasons and that you understand the context, so thats cool, its others that are throwing their toys out the pram.

You can see why GW would attach bonuses to battalions though, because they are creating new armies all the time and eventually everyone will have them, sure some dont at the moment but they will eventually (my Dwarfs are lacking as much as anyone). Their approach has always been continual development, especially recently, so they dont tend to just sit on something and reset it entirely, meaning there will be highs and lows. Its how they drive interest in the games, to constantly come out with new stuff or changes to 'the META'. This obviously has to drive sales but its also the rules guys trying to keep the game they love good while also meeting that need to sell stuff to keep their jobs.

 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

1 hour ago, lolwut said:

Yes there are, the three general ones they provided are stratagems,

Inspiring pressence has been in the game since day 1. At this point I honestly think we are falling a bit into the saying of "when you only have a hammer..."

[TheOtherJosh]

29 minutes ago, Infeston said:

But the wording is "every turn", which could mean "your turn" and "the enemy turn". Does anyone have suggestions what might be right?

The updates to command traits appear to be within a turn, as traits appear to be on a per turn basis not the battle round ... as indicated in the battleshock phase reference. Which is explicitly within a single turn as it spent at the beginning of a battleshock phase. Unlike previous, where it was spent in a hero phase and lasted until your next hero phase.

Take this all with a grain of salt. I’m purely speculating.

[BURF1]

I wouldn't take wording as subtle as 'turn' vs 'round' as gospel in these write-ups. 

I do sincerely hope it's rounds for the command points though, having 5 command points at the start of turn two would make a 1-2 double turn ungodly brutal.

As for the argument about command pts and battalions...what army even can take more than 1 without crippling yourself? You get 1 point it's not going to be a big deal, especially with all but the big 4-5 battalions seeing 0 play.

[Jamopower]

49 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

Inspiring pressence has been in the game since day 1. At this point I honestly think we are falling a bit into the saying of "when you only have a hammer..."

The new inspiring presence is different though. It with the two new ones are quite like the 40k stratagems,  which you activate midway to the turn. The other command points are used for good old command abilities. 

The new system seems to be such that it can be played just as before, but it allows nice strategies for army building, even if it's not my favourite part of the game. You could have multiple heroes to have a choice what you are using or you can save up points for a super turn.