TheOtherJosh Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Lost2Requiem said: Purely from a English grammar point of view, the rule is unequivocal. MUST roll off. IF it’s a tie etc. If GW come out and say that’s wrong, I’m fine with that, always play as intended, but it’s a bit of a proof-reading issue. be interested in the first FAQ...! Given that the entire issue appears to be stemming from a video playthrough (which may have confused the old rule with the new rule) I hope that If they FAQ that I hope they release a fixed version of the rules pdf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost2Requiem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Yep, totally agree. I’m happy to play either way. If it is wrong though, I’m just a bit, I don’t know. Disappointed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lost2Requiem said: Yep, totally agree. I’m happy to play either way. If it is wrong though, I’m just a bit, I don’t know. Disappointed? Yes. It is a pretty crucial issue. They could so easily have just said “roll off to see who goes first except in the first battle round.” I am very excited about aos 2 and a lot of what we have seen is fantastic, but to see the very first document from the new edition have such a major error (as it seems they still intend for the person who deploys first to choose who goes first in the first battleround) is a bit of a bummer. Personally though, I would much prefer it if they keep it as written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Is the mount thing new or have I just been out of the loop for too long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 From my perspective, it's very clear RaW that you roll off, including the first tie. The clauses for the tie come into place if the same dice is rolled by both parties, it's all one sentence. Obviously in the most recent play through it was either played RaI, which would be a real shame to have a rules error in the book already or the video is wrong. AoS FB page just put a post up about there L2 Play, Build and Paint Videos. I've dropped a post on that post asking if they could clarify it either way, see if we're lucky and get a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Did you notice guys that there haven't been anything new other than the starter set on the Stormcast side? The NH had their Mortarch, banshees, heros,...(and still one missing, with the cavalry also), but the SCE, nothing: I'm expecting some reveal soon (the pegase like, the new dracoh etc...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chikout said: Yes. It is a pretty crucial issue. They could so easily have just said “roll off to see who goes first except in the first battle round.” I am very excited about aos 2 and a lot of what we have seen is fantastic, but to see the very first document from the new edition have such a major error (as it seems they still intend for the person who deploys first to choose who goes first in the first battleround) is a bit of a bummer. Personally though, I would much prefer it if they keep it as written. It's entirely possible that the people interpreting it the "wrong way" read it very quickly and didn't have a rules writer checking in on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoodooChileIRL Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, daedalus81 said: Is the mount thing new or have I just been out of the loop for too long? Nah Stormcast have had it for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadkitten Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 GW needs a dedicated rules manager. That person should probably have a law degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 minute ago, GeneralZero said: Did you notice guys that there haven't been anything new other than the starter set on the Stormcast side? The NH had their Mortarch, banshees, heros,...(and still one missing, with the cavalry also), but the SCE, nothing: I'm expecting some reveal soon (the pegase like, the new dracoh etc...) I'm expecting: Sequitors and Evocators have more weapon options (maybe Castigators too) The hero in the Soul Wars trailer riding the flying monster and probably one more special character All the stuff at Warhammer Fest (lord on foot (arcanum?), ordinator with 2h, male incantor, new cavalary unit, mounted incantor) More engineering stuff. It wouldn't make sense for the Sacrosanct to include engineers if they only have a ballista. I think the ballista is a dual-kit that can be built into a different war machine (maybe a cannon?) and there will be some kind of large war machine coming out, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Okay. If I look at the german wording considering the new "who goes first in the first battleround" the rule is pretty clear: "Zu Beginn jeder Schlachtrunde müssen die Spieler gegeneinander würfeln und der Gewinner entscheidet, wer den ersten Zug hat. Ist der Wurf gegeneinander ein Unentschieden, darf der Spieler, der in der vorangegangenen Schlachtrunde zuerst an der Reihe war, entscheiden, wer in dieser den ersten Zug hat. Bei einem Unentschieden in der ersten Schlachtrunde des Spiels entscheidet derjenige Spieler, der zuerst mit der Aufstellung seiner Armee fertig war, wer den ersten Zug hat". It is worded that considering you roll a tie in the first battleround, the player who deployed first chooses who goes first. It is pretty clear in the german version. So I would think that it means the same in the new version. It even states that you roll who goes first in the first battleround. I don't know if the rules writers in different languages communicate with each other or if each translator translates the documents individually. But the german version has it worded pretty clearly. And I really hope that they are not that inconsistent with the rules that they would publish different kind of rules in different languages. So I would think that the wording was meant to be the way that the player only chooses who goes first in case of a tie and that you also roll of who goes first in the first battleround. But correct me please if I am wrong. Maybe other language speakers can look at their version and tell how the rule is written down by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, daedalus81 said: Is the mount thing new or have I just been out of the loop for too long? I’m pretty sure that was in the v1.2 FAQs for the GHB 2017... here it is: Page 117 – Allegiance Abilities, Mounts Change the second sentence to: ‘In all such cases, any command traits or magical artefacts can only be used to affect attacks made by the hero, and have no effect on attacks made by the their mount unless specifically stated otherwise.’ (Bold emphasis mine) https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/age_of_sigmar_generals_handbook1.2_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Infeston said: Bei einem Unentschieden in der ersten Schlachtrunde des Spiels entscheidet derjenige Spieler, der zuerst mit der Aufstellung seiner Armee fertig war, wer den ersten Zug hat". The google is translating it to this: “In case of a tie in the first battle round of the game, the player who finished his lineup first decides who will take the first turn” <s> So ... I’m voting that the video is horribly wrong and heretical. (Burn all the videos for a specific subset of videos! ) </s> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said: The google is translating it to this: “In case of a tie in the first battle round of the game, the player who finished his lineup first decides who will take the first turn” <s> So ... I’m voting that the video is horribly wrong and heretical. (Burn all the videos for a specific subset of videos! ) </s> Even a google translation of a german translation of the original GW wording is more precise than the actual wording of GW. ? I don't know if GW works really close with their translators and tells them how the wording is meant or maybe it was just a very pernickety german tanslator, who changed the wording to be more precise. I don't really know. But in the german version it is pretty clear how the rule should be interpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 I've a feeling there's a load of crossed wires currently. Just been watching this unfold on Twitter over lunch and Martin from the community team is saying it's as the previous edition because that's what was said on Twitch with Ben Johnson, so I think it's going to be a case of "watch this space". My own interpretation is very much what a lot of the posts above have said - you always roll but in the case of a tie the first dropper wins. From a grammer/English point of view that makes sense. However the supporting video and conversations on Twitch say the old way. Ho hum, am sure it'll be clarified soon enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: I've a feeling there's a load of crossed wires currently. Just been watching this unfold on Twitter over lunch and Martin from the community team is saying it's as the previous edition because that's what was said on Twitch with Ben Johnson, so I think it's going to be a case of "watch this space". My own interpretation is very much what a lot of the posts above have said - you always roll but in the case of a tie the first dropper wins. From a grammer/English point of view that makes sense. However the supporting video and conversations on Twitch say the old way. Ho hum, am sure it'll be clarified soon enough! But why word it different in an official document (german version)? Should we german players now play the game different than the rest of the world? ? I would be interested how the rule is interpreted in other documents of other languages. Are there any people with other native languages who can maybe look thorugh their version and say how it is written down there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 It wouldn't be the first time the studio gets a rule wrong in a battle report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadkitten Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 They could have done an entire Daily update blurb about this change and made a lot of people happy. They could have done it today and dropped the rules tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Infeston said: But why word it different in an official document (german version)? Should we german players now play the game different than the rest of the world? ? I would be interested how the rule is interpreted in other documents of other languages. Are there any people with other native languages who can maybe look thorugh their version and say how it is written down there? I'd say the German and English actually say the same thing. It's the other sources that are disagreeing currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boelimaa Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Infeston said: But why word it different in an official document (german version)? Should we german players now play the game different than the rest of the world? ? I would be interested how the rule is interpreted in other documents of other languages. Are there any people with other native languages who can maybe look thorugh their version and say how it is written down there? The wording in German is written totally clear, you roll at the beginning of the game, if a tie, the first dropper decides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: I'd say the German and English actually say the same thing. It's the other sources that are disagreeing currently. Jeah you are right, sorry. The german version is only a little bit more precise, because it says "if you roll a tie in the first battleround". I really hope that it is true that there is a rolloff in the first battleround and they don't change it back to the old way if they have to clear things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Just now, Infeston said: Jeah you are right, sorry. The german version is only a little bit more precise, because it says "if you roll a tie in the first battleround". Agreed - I always find it quite amusing that the German version often is more precise about rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadkitten Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Germany to the rescue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Agreed - I always find it quite amusing that the German version often is more precise about rules! Maybe it is a cultural thing. I think we germans are very nitpicky if it comes down to rules and laws. ? If you have ever been in a political or scientific commitee in germany (although I would guess this might also be the same for political or scientific commitees outside of germany), there are so often many discussions about how a phrase is worded or which words are used, that is often ridiculous. There are so many discussions about words in such commitees. ? But maybe it has also to do with the structure of the language itself. But I don't know. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamJ Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: I've a feeling there's a load of crossed wires currently. Just been watching this unfold on Twitter over lunch and Martin from the community team is saying it's as the previous edition because that's what was said on Twitch with Ben Johnson, so I think it's going to be a case of "watch this space". My own interpretation is very much what a lot of the posts above have said - you always roll but in the case of a tie the first dropper wins. From a grammer/English point of view that makes sense. However the supporting video and conversations on Twitch say the old way. Ho hum, am sure it'll be clarified soon enough! Whilst I don't have the issue to hand doesn't the battle report in the latest White Dwarf have them rolling off at the start of the first battle round? I'll check this tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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