Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, RuneBrush said:

Really like this.  Goes a little way to mitigate the ease at which you can snipe out a character but without making it super powerful

I was advocating for the roll to pass off a wound to nearby unit type of "look out sir", but this works too. 40k hero protection was the biggest thing I was worried about coming to AoS since that rule is just so broken with the hidden units being able to prevent attacks.

[Tzaangor Management]

That looks a fairly low-key, well thought out change, although it'll depend on all the other changes I should imagine...

[Infeston]

Just now, DynamicCalories said:

I'm not talking about here.

Okay. Maybe I am visiting the wrong forums. ? I only look at reddit, tga and Facebook. And on all of these websites I have seen no such comment. Not even on Facebook. 

[DynamicCalories]

GW are pretty swift at deleting negative comments, but they do turn up.

 

There's one on the fan network right now. I don't particularly care to get into some kind of contest over this anyway. So far the rules reveals have been handled better than the 7th to 8th change in 40k last year.

[Ollie Grimwood]

This paragraph in the Maggotkin focus caught my eye. It might just be a comment on Narrative play or an indication on how the rules of one might be changing? 

[Infeston]

3 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

GW are pretty swift at deleting negative comments, but they do turn up.

Okay. Maybe I also have overread such comments. But I often don't take unconstructive comments seriously.

Another question. Do Look Out Sir! and abilities that decrease hit rolls stack?

If yes, the Fungoid Cave Shaman has gotten even better, because with this change hit rolls against the cave shaman would be decreased by 2. 

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

This paragraph in the Maggotkin focus caught my eye. It might just be a comment on Narrative play or an indication on how the rules of one might be changing? 

My guess is that they're talking about non-matched play.

[Killax]

20 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

Fantastic! Even better as 40K's equivelant which just leads to a positioning game which in real life looks akward as heck.

So far I'm very happy to see that some of the ideas that were posted in relation to these topics where really good approaches. 

I think Age of Sigmar will become an amazingly awesome strategic game this way that rewards great model placement to the extreme. Easy to learn, very hard to master as every army will likely require different set up approaches. This is to some extend the case now but as before, my prime issue with the current rulesset is the complete lack of adding tactical depth to shooting.

Here it is! And it will be wonderful.

[bsharitt]

3 minutes ago, Infeston said:

Okay. Maybe I also have overread such comments. But I often don't take unconstructive comments seriously.

Another question. Do Look Out Sir! and abilities that decrease hit rolls stack?

If yes, the Fungoid Cave Shaman has gotten even better, because with this change hit rolls against the cave shaman would be decreased by 2. 

I don't see why they wouldn't stack. It would be no different that the Cave shaman's attacker in melee being in range of a netter in a unit of goblins and as far as I know and have played, those stack.

[Inqy]

Yeah, it's a happy medium between AoS 1.0 and 40k. Hero-sniping is still possible, but between Look Out, Sir! and no shooting out of combat it's something you actually have to take risks to do, even with the good ranged units.

[bsharitt]

2 minutes ago, Killax said:

Fantastic! Even better as 40K's equivelant which just leads to a positioning game which in real life looks akward as heck.

Especially since no matter how they do it with respect to a unit that can't be targeted by shooting, it ends up being a easily gamed by one side or the other.

[Enoby]

23 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I’ve not seen anything in the rumours that seem to specifically hurt the KO.   Shooting hasn’t gone away and if chargers do strike first they have two fast, flying melee units to capitalise on it. I’ve never used them (because I don’t do stunties) but the weapons on the Sky Wardens/ Edrinriggers look like they’d be fairly useful.

KO are a very shooting focussed army besides the endrinriggers and sky wardens. There have been two shooting 'nerfs' announced (no shooting out of combat and look out sir!), and both of these hurt KO a bit (nothing army breaking, but still makes the army's shooting objectively worse - even if it doesn't make it bad, there are two new rules that disadvantage shooting in some way). These changes hurt KO more than the average army because they use shooting more than the average army. I'm hoping they see a points decrease in some units (eg thunderers and gunhaulers) because of these changes (unless, of course, another rules comes about that makes them even more powerful). 

[PJetski]

27 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

 

I am worried that this is going to make large non-MONSTER heroes like the Cauldron of Blood too durable. I think this should effect Behemoths, and not MONSTERS. Also, stacking hit debuffs with artifacts like Mirrorshield is going to make some heroes perhaps too difficult to kill...

On a side note, one thing I have always liked about AOS was how they worded the rules in a minimalist and elegant way. While I'm grateful for this mechanic, it feels like we've lost that beautiful rules writing in this new edition.

[hughwyeth]

Just now, PJetski said:

 

I am worried that this is going to make large non-MONSTER heroes like the Cauldron of Blood too durable. I think this should effect Behemoths, and not MONSTERS. Also, stacking hit debuffs with artifacts like Mirrorshield is going to make some heroes perhaps too difficult to kill...

On a side note, one thing I have always liked about AOS was how they worded the rules in a minimalist and elegant way. While I'm grateful for this mechanic, it feels like we've lost that beautiful rules writing in this new edition.

It doesn't do anything for the 420 point Glottkin who still seems too easy to take out!

The increase in rules complexity in general is the only thing that concerns me with 2.0. I don't have an issue with individual rules, but an increase in complexity is going to put me off as a casual player. AoS was really, really easy to get into because it was so simple. GW risk losing that gateway to the hobby if they bring it up to 40k level. 

[Furuzzolo]

I see a lot of concern for KO players. I play ko and i like the changes.

I'd love to see KO become a proper faction instead of a cheesy-monolist. That's it. 

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, Enoby said:

KO are a very shooting focussed army besides the endrinriggers and sky wardens. There have been two shooting 'nerfs' announced (no shooting out of combat and look out sir!), and both of these hurt KO a bit (nothing army breaking, but still makes the army's shooting objectively worse - even if it doesn't make it bad, there are two new rules that disadvantage shooting in some way). These changes hurt KO more than the average army because they use shooting more than the average army. I'm hoping they see a points decrease in some units (eg thunderers and gunhaulers) because of these changes (unless, of course, another rules comes about that makes them even more powerful). 

I'm going to continue to think positive about KO changes in 2nd ed. Oddly them no being a true gun line army outside of Grundstock Thunderers means they may get hurt most by shooting nerfs since arkanauts and skyriggers are almost always going to be in combat a turn after shooting whether they want it or not. But some I think even if there are no offsetting buffs to the shooting nerfs, the KO can still be viable through point cost fixes alone.

[Ollie Grimwood]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

KO are a very shooting focussed army besides the endrinriggers and sky wardens. There have been two shooting 'nerfs' announced (no shooting out of combat and look out sir!), and both of these hurt KO a bit (nothing army breaking, but still makes the army's shooting objectively worse - even if it doesn't make it bad, there are two new rules that disadvantage shooting in some way). These changes hurt KO more than the average army because they use shooting more than the average army. I'm hoping they see a points decrease in some units (eg thunderers and gunhaulers) because of these changes (unless, of course, another rules comes about that makes them even more powerful). 

Surely they gain from Look out Sir like anyone else though they certainly have some characters they’d like to protect. Swing and roundabouts. No confirmation on how the “no shooting out of combat” will work but I guess it might hurt them in certain circumstances if it is just that (if it’s no shoot at all if in combat it’ll hurt them a lot in that case)

[bsharitt]

2 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

I see a lot of concern for KO players. I play ko and i like the changes.

I'd love to see KO become a proper faction instead of a cheesy-monolist. That's it. 

If anything, I think shooting nerfs will drive the KO even further towards endrinrigger non-sense monolists. I'm hoping point drops makes boat heavy lists viable.

[chord]

As a casual play the addition of rules, allegiance abilities etc keeps increasing the complexity. I chose AoS because originally it had simpler rules.

I fear they are going to drive casual players away

[Soulsmith]

5 minutes ago, chord said:

As a casual play the addition of rules, allegiance abilities etc keeps increasing the complexity. I chose AoS because originally it had simpler rules.

I fear they are going to drive casual players away

I would not be surprised if the rulebook has the original 4 pages with some tweaks, and then the rest of these new rules you can expand to when you have gotten the hang of it.

[michu]

@chord Do you play Open or Matched? If Open then solution is simple - don't play with allegiance abilities (or only with the Grand Alliance ones). Recent changes in core rules are not that big to become too complicated for beginners.

[Killax]

9 minutes ago, chord said:

As a casual play the addition of rules, allegiance abilities etc keeps increasing the complexity. I chose AoS because originally it had simpler rules.

I fear they are going to drive casual players away

The use of them are all options. You dont have to use anything. A real casual player will pick the things they know and want to use anyway.

The core of the rules might go from 4 pages to 8 and I dont know anyone personally who would see it as too much.

Like before GW still seems to classify by Grand Allegiance first and smaller after. Though even this is optional...

For me the true attraction to new players from all kinds is the minis that will emulate spells. I wish they did that in WFB to be honest because its cool.

Likewise I miss AoE templates in 40K.

[Redmanphill]

I don’t see points drops for missile troops being on the books, why reduce the effectiveness of shooting against certain targets and then compensate for that by allowing more shooting? It’s a 16% change in the chance to hit a character, it’s not a lot just enough to make a shooter consider if there are better targets elsewhere.

[tolstedt]

21 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

 

The increase in rules complexity in general is the only thing that concerns me with 2.0. I don't have an issue with individual rules, but an increase in complexity is going to put me off as a casual player. AoS was really, really easy to get into because it was so simple. GW risk losing that gateway to the hobby if they bring it up to 40k level. 

I hope that the increase in complexity is mitigated by it all being in one place.  As it stands now, you have to search through FAQS to find out how to play the game.  Some warscrolls on the app or website are also straight up wrong!  It is getting a bit bloated, so hopefully it can all be consolidated and a bit easier to consume. 

This is mostly a concern for new players I think.

[Enoby]

24 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Surely they gain from Look out Sir like anyone else though they certainly have some characters they’d like to protect. Swing and roundabouts. No confirmation on how the “no shooting out of combat” will work but I guess it might hurt them in certain circumstances if it is just that (if it’s no shoot at all if in combat it’ll hurt them a lot in that case)

They gain from Look Out Sir!, but also lose from it. My Khorne army, for example, only gains from it. 

24 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

I'm going to continue to think positive about KO changes in 2nd ed. Oddly them no being a true gun line army outside of Grundstock Thunderers means they may get hurt most by shooting nerfs since arkanauts and skyriggers are almost always going to be in combat a turn after shooting whether they want it or not. But some I think even if there are no offsetting buffs to the shooting nerfs, the KO can still be viable through point cost fixes alone.

I'm hoping they get some points changes too. Nothing massive, but stuff like the gunhauler is never seen despite being a lovely model and these shooting changes are just going to hurt it even more (if it had a niche, it was sniping heroes of the board, which is going to prove more difficult now; while getting into combat with it was always a bad idea, now it will be useless in combat unless it's engaged with the target it wants to shoot). I'm mostly hoping they can become more than an army with one 'proper' way to play.