stratigo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/9/2018 at 4:59 AM, Furuzzolo said: Why so? I guess we still can dispel them on cast, we can still move them if we're not going first... Diversity among factions is pretty good. Plus, thing like endless spells, are good grudges materials. Making factions suck is less good. Dwarves don't play with any of the new magic rules, don't get to poop out tons of summons, and make them unable to interact at all with endless spells once they are cast just puts even more pain on a series of factions getting already kicked by the new rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayerofmen Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 This is assuming they wont change the runesmith (whatever they are called now) warscroll to include a way to dispel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, stratigo said: Making factions suck is less good. Dwarves don't play with any of the new magic rules, don't get to poop out tons of summons, and make them unable to interact at all with endless spells once they are cast just puts even more pain on a series of factions getting already kicked by the new rules Who is to say that dwarves allegiant abilities were not adjusted to improve their dispel ability? And we don’t know how the points will land for the armies without summoning va those that do summon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Slayerofmen said: This is assuming they wont change the runesmith (whatever they are called now) warscroll to include a way to dispel This was his main purpose in the World That Was. The current warscroll for the Dispossessed Runelord gives him the ability to dispel with a +2 bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 This whole banishment conversation reminds me of the old lash of submission arguments in 40k. For those who don't remember - or didnt play 40k back in the day - lash allowed a slaneesh psyker to move enemy models x inches and arrange them how they wantes. So what people did with lash was move a unit into range of ordnance weapons and clump them together so ordnance could takebout a unit a turn. Well, then they stacked multiple lash, then to eliminate the model with lash being killed they dropped them on a demon prince, then spammed princes with lash. So not just removing useful units, but bringing them into range of some terrible fate would be another use of banishment. However, we don't know the limits or actual wording of banishment or how malign sorcery will be implememted yet so there is no real reason to hate it at this point. We just don't know. I think its a neat idea, to be sure. Glad to see bringing different ideas to aos. Could it be way too good? Absolutely. But one of the goals of the redesign is faster games. This could be in the line of no brainer, 30 minute gameplay, set up and go again with some cool fun to be had. And, ine big limit of banishment is if you have a spell caster, you can do it too. Which could make for some crazy games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 If the spell ends up so rediculous that it heavily warps play once the new edition has had a bit of time to settle down then it will most likely be hit with an errata. GW has been fairly good at using errata in 40k and AoS to reign in most of the really bad stuff. But you have to figure that with this much new stuff coming into the game that they overlooked some interaction and there is going to be some stuff that is too good or can be abused. This always happens with GW (and most game companies) - what is going to really matter is how quick they are to act on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Skabnoze said: If the spell ends up so rediculous that it heavily warps play once the new edition has had a bit of time to settle down then it will most likely be hit with an errata. GW has been fairly good at using errata in 40k and AoS to reign in most of the really bad stuff. But you have to figure that with this much new stuff coming into the game that they overlooked some interaction and there is going to be some stuff that is too good or can be abused. This always happens with GW (and most game companies) - what is going to really matter is how quick they are to act on it. Yeah i keep reading spell rules and thinking of cool stuff my dudes could do, then realizing someone smarter than me will have found 3 even more powerful things it can do, and i get sad. I'm gunna hold off buying the spells until I'm sure matched play events will allow them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, Sheriff said: Yeah i keep reading spell rules and thinking of cool stuff my dudes could do, then realizing someone smarter than me will have found 3 even more powerful things it can do, and i get sad. I'm gunna hold off buying the spells until I'm sure matched play events will allow them. I’ll buy the spell supplement because it seems to have the new realm spells, the endless spells, the realm magic item lists, and the models for the endless spells. I will probably still convert up a number of endless spells that thematically fit my armies, but the official models look cool enough. I figure that even if events don’t use all of the magic rules they will use some of them. In addition, most of the games I play are not at events or in preparation for them - although it is still mostly matched play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 The new magic expansion is interesting in this whole pre new edition buildup as it gets mixed in with the actual new rules of the new edition, which there seem to be not so many, and the new GHB. I don't believe the Malign sorcery would have got as much hype in regards of its impacts on (competitive) gaming, if it has been a stand alone expansion like Malign portents. It's after all basically the Storm of Magic for AoS. Likely some parts of it are used in some events, just as Malign portents, but hard to see that it'll be "an integral part of the game", though the endless spells and artifacts will probably see a lot of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokek Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Bellfree said: It's absolutely a problem so long as banishment is available to everyone. Umbral spellportal doesn't make spells powerful it makes them longer range. If using spell portal makes a spell an issue that's because the spell is powerful already. Any sensible tournament already requires you to put your spells on your army list. Not knowing in advance that you will be playing a game in Hysh you cannot put that spell on your list. This is not a tournament problem regardless of whether the spell is as broken as you think it is. So it is a "problem" for random pickup games that happen to end up in Hysh. Like any random semi-casual game if it is going to ruin the game have a word with your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayanee Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Gotrek said: Yes it is, here's why: wizards get bolt, shield, warscrolls spell, choice of 6 battletome spells, choice of 7 home realm spells, AND 7 more spells for the realm they're fighting in. That many decisions to make will lead to choice paralysis and require entirely too much book keeping. 4 You don't have access to home realms spells. That's only true for artifacts. And you have to choose the battletome lore spells while you build your list, so its really only the realm you are fighting in...which is easily manageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiyuren Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Cheese combo based on zero evidence incoming; So there was some speculation earlier that the 3" buffer zone has been removed from the balewind. Does that mean I'll be able to summon an umbral portal onto it with my wizard, gaining the benefits of both (It's not a monster and has less than 8 wounds ?)? Or if i can't, there's no rule that the wizard has to be on top of the balewind as far as i know, just on it, so i could put him on the base of it, and the umbral portal 1" away? I also seem to remember the endless spells being said to be between 40 & 60pts each to field... Upgraded balewind for 120pts? Yes please. I doubt this will be doable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahn-ket Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Banishment isn't has hard as imagined for LoN because of the possibility of up to 6 wizards in an 2000p army and 30" dispell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said: Banishment isn't has hard as imagined for LoN because of the possibility of up to 6 wizards in an 2000p army and 30" dispell Yep having a the ability to dispel be much longer than the range of the spell will make a big difference and not just with banishment. Also It’s a bit remiss to not consider that it’s very likely there will be spells that will be available that move your own units around, there are already some afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Typically abilities that allow you to move enemy models are very good, thus it's good to remember that Bray shaman has that kind of spell available in all of the realms in the new edition. What comes to magic, I still think that outside Malign sorcery, it's impact is less than it has been before. Even the strong magic armies are strictly worse (even though just by little) because of the extended dispel range and the loss of the mystic shield. They might be better relative to weaker magic armies than they were before, but still in absolute terms worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 +++MOD HAT+++ Guys going to ask if we can either leave the Banishment discussion or move it to a new thread. I've just read three pages of pretty much circular conversation where all of the arguments, worries and thoughts are valid, but until we actually have a chance to read the rules, we can't really form an accurate opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Not sure how wide spread this is going to be, but GW Bath is opening early on Saturday to do an unboxing of Soul Wars and Malign Sorcery which means we're all going to be able to get our mitts onto it! They also have a number of models to hand out (one of the new Sequestors I believe). Really surprised by this as I wasn't expecting this to hit the wild until the 30th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I still wonder if Soul Wars means that Nagash now has a Death Soul and Soul Troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaKennyThing Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Not sure how wide spread this is going to be, but GW Bath is opening early on Saturday to do an unboxing of Soul Wars and Malign Sorcery which means we're all going to be able to get our mitts onto it! They also have a number of models to hand out (one of the new Sequestors I believe). Really surprised by this as I wasn't expecting this to hit the wild until the 30th! GW are coming to the local gaming club up here Thursday to do one! Community engagement madness. They've done really well, the new boxed set is really great looking. Can't think of a time in gaming history that I've set aside such a large sum of money to part with in one go! Saying that I can only afford it by slaving away painting other people's models in the meantime. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Killax said: I still wonder if Soul Wars means that Nagash now has a Death Soul and Soul Troopers. In hear he’ll measure his weapons in Soul Calibres ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 BTW, I'm looking forward to see the new units this week. I forsee one new unit anouncement per day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Bellfree said: Now I've said my piece, take it or leave it up to you; I'm gonna go back to pokemon. This is the best mic-drop i've ever read. hahaha. (not trying to be a d*ck, just had the mental image of Kanye doing this ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Slayerofmen said: This is assuming they wont change the runesmith (whatever they are called now) warscroll to include a way to dispel There was a conversation chain. This idea was included in it. I was objecting to someone's objection to dispelling persistent spells. 6 hours ago, Skabnoze said: Who is to say that dwarves allegiant abilities were not adjusted to improve their dispel ability? And we don’t know how the points will land for the armies without summoning va those that do summon. They aren't changing allegiance abilities. They would have mentioned if they were. And I think people are being wildly optimistic about point changes. GW almost always balances based on the current meta and not the future one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Trayanee said: You don't have access to home realms spells. That's only true for artifacts. And you have to choose the battletome lore spells while you build your list, so its really only the realm you are fighting in...which is easily manageable. I figured, but the guy i was responding to wanted to throw out the scenario where you got home realm spells in addition to the battle realm spells because as he put it "the two arent mutually exclusive". I cant wait for everything to drop so people can stop having breakdowns over just stupid stuff. Pretty sure there's been over 20 pages of wailing about a spell with a casting value of 8, which if my math is right has a 25% chance to go off unaided amd theres not even a good chance to access the spell at all to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I mean this seems a whole lot of fuss over something literally no one has played with yet and that's before we even know 100% how realms are handled etc. Let's not run before we can walk right? Lets wait, play games with the new releases get data and go from there. Pre-orders are up within the week! What's everyone pre-ordering? It'll be the GHB, Corebook & Malign Sorcery for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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