Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[hughwyeth]

20 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

Yeah I saw plenty of that too. I'm curious if any of those people actually went to the effort of doing the conversion work in the end, or if it was all bluster. 

I do wonder what happened behind-the-scenes on this one, as it seemed like a real unnecessary own-goal on GW's part. Why word it like that, when people would obviously run with it? Why combine standard bearer and champion in the first place? And the actual kit is weird too, IMO - you get two near-identical standards in there, for no reason I can fathom, and it just sticks awkwardly on top of the model, with no special parts for the Icon Bearer at all - I can't think of any other kit where the command model/s are so low-effort. Don't understand what their thought process was all round but at least it's been FAQ'd quickly. 

I haven't seen the kits yet. RE the rules, I just think they don't have Quality Control for their rules. The same rule regarding how many banner/icon bearers/musicians/leader/hero is worded differently for almost every unit. They should really have this down by now considering almost every unit with these rules gets these questions asked. It should be easy to simplify it:

This unit consists of 10 or more models.

Icon Bearers
For every 10 models, you can have 1 icon bearer. Icon bearers can carry either icon A or icon B.

Musician
For every 10 models, you can have 1 musician.

Hero
This unit may contain 1 hero model. 

Rather than the "this unit may contain icon bearers" which just creates confusion. They really need to standardise their vocabulary with these rules. 

[robinlvalentine]

100% agree yeah, I think that's the best approach. Particularly I hope 'per 10 models' (or 'per 3/5/whatever' in the case of big dudes) becomes a rule, because then you can mix up whether you use your models as, say, three units of 10, or one of 30. 

Overall I think I like GW's approach to unit upgrades these days - i.e. no points so it's as simple as possible, putting the actual contents of the kit above all - but as it stands it's way too loosey-goosey. Hopefully 2nd edition starts standardising things a bit (no pun intended). 

[SirPug]

I'm having problem deciding color scheme for my army. It will consist of 1 huge blob of thralls and rest will be akhelian eels and a leviadon. Leaders would be 2 tidecaster and a king.

The 2 color schemes I'm having trouble deciding upon are following:

 1 Bronze armour with red and orange cloth parts, kinda spartan look considering akhelians wear very greek looking armour.

 2 purple armour, naggaroth night base with nuln oil wash to make it even darker and then xereus purple for the higlights. Cloth a color close to bahartoth blue and seaweed/jade green.

[Botinok]

8 hours ago, SirPug said:

I'm having problem deciding color scheme for my army. It will consist of 1 huge blob of thralls and rest will be akhelian eels and a leviadon. Leaders would be 2 tidecaster and a king.

The 2 color schemes I'm having trouble deciding upon are following:

 1 Bronze armour with red and orange cloth parts, kinda spartan look considering akhelians wear very greek looking armour.

 2 purple armour, naggaroth night base with nuln oil wash to make it even darker and then xereus purple for the higlights. Cloth a color close to bahartoth blue and seaweed/jade green.

For me second one is better because it's kinda unique(not like GW bright color scheme) for this army and will give @darker@ appearance

First scheme goes khornish alike and gold color can bring boredom in future.

 

[Sactownbri]

Just finished reading the ID FAQ. I only saw one big surprise; the Leviadon harpoon launcher got a boost. That was really surprising to me. I can now see a possibility of taking two of them with Reavers. Let the Leviadon tank shooting attacks with a mystic shield while putting out a lot of shooting and covering the remaining archers as they move into range. The fact that everyone shoots and is also respectable in combat seems really good. Putting a tidecaster either in he shipwreck or on a vortex to double range both seem strong.

[Hoseman]

Maybe Im making a silly question but been in cover gives you +1 to save vs shooting or vs shooting and combat?

I think combat doesnt has the +1 inst it?

[hughwyeth]

46 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

Maybe Im making a silly question but been in cover gives you +1 to save vs shooting or vs shooting and combat?

I think combat doesnt has the +1 inst it?

Both. Cover is a universal +1 to saves. 

Note that cover from terrain doesn't count for units that charged into a combat that takes place in cover. They would only receive cover on subsequent turns. 

[Weebey]

Been a while since we got some playtesting results in here! Any feedback on the Turtle? The Sylvaneth battalion? Thralls vs Eels riders?...

[Drofnum]

2 hours ago, Weebey said:

Been a while since we got some playtesting results in here! Any feedback on the Turtle? The Sylvaneth battalion? Thralls vs Eels riders?...

Had to put my hobbying on hold for buying a house.

I'm planning on playing with AoStorm and a turtle next time I get a chance though, hopefully this week!

[Thalion]

Hi, Im new in this forum, I´ve been reading from behind the shadows for a while until I finally decided to join and participate. 

Im planning on building a 1500pts list arround thrall regeneration, I really like the models and the regen dinamics, and talking about the FAQs the leviadon is becoming more and more interesting as an option, still have a doubt about its rules, though:

- The description says it has two arpoons, and the warscroll says it has 3 attacks. Does that mean that it has 6 attacks in total, or 3 attacks from 2 arpoons? Does this mean that now, after the upgrade on the warscroll, it has 6 shots in total, or 12 (6 per arpoon)?

Im also trying to decide if go nautilar white or mor´phan black... black and purple look too old dark elves to me, but cant imagine which color goes well with greenish-dark-blue-almost-black that im planning for the armour. 

btw sorry for my rusty english! 

[robinlvalentine]

41 minutes ago, Thalion said:

- The description says it has two arpoons, and the warscroll says it has 3 attacks. Does that mean that it has 6 attacks in total, or 3 attacks from 2 arpoons? Does this mean that now, after the upgrade on the warscroll, it has 6 shots in total, or 12 (6 per arpoon)?

It has six attacks total - two guns, each with three attacks. 

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

It has six attacks total - two guns, each with three attacks. 

Yes warscrolls tell you exactly how many attacks any given model has, and any paired weapons tend to have other rules in the description where necessary. 

 

I think the turtle fox is nice, but it doesn't do a whole lot to make the turtle better.  The turtle is qiite nice, but it's main issue is that it's kind of useless turn 1 as your army mote than likely has cover for for everything due to tides. Then, turn 2 most of your army is charging. 

 

That said I do think the extra shooting attacks does put the turtle up in the same precarious place as the aspects. Where it is a list defining piece that needs alot of stuff to support. 

 

A reaver shooting list running fuethan with a tide caster general and a turtle could make got a decent shooting list.  Turn 1 run and shoot, turn 2 shoot/charge/fight first.  Maaaaaaybe with lotan to provide army wide rerolls. I'd leave the soul renders at home for this one and just jam as many reavers as you can. I'd also bring MSU reapers no reason to make the units big as it just makes them suffer more from battle shock. 

I think this list could be comparable to the regen list, and would probably have all the same weaknesses ad the thrall list. It's also subject to change with Aos 2.0 

Also think in the above list and also maybe any list 2 or 3 tide castwrs isn't a bad idea, as we have a pretty nice spell lore. 

 

[Mazin1]

I want to run this list. But is it too cheesy?

Storm

Sea

Tidecaster

Soul Scryer

3x 10  Thralls

3 Morr Sarr

Laviadon

[Austin]

6 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Yes warscrolls tell you exactly how many attacks any given model has, and any paired weapons tend to have other rules in the description where necessary. 

 

I think the turtle fox is nice, but it doesn't do a whole lot to make the turtle better.  The turtle is qiite nice, but it's main issue is that it's kind of useless turn 1 as your army mote than likely has cover for for everything due to tides. Then, turn 2 most of your army is charging. 

 

That said I do think the extra shooting attacks does put the turtle up in the same precarious place as the aspects. Where it is a list defining piece that needs alot of stuff to support. 

 

A reaver shooting list running fuethan with a tide caster general and a turtle could make got a decent shooting list.  Turn 1 run and shoot, turn 2 shoot/charge/fight first.  Maaaaaaybe with lotan to provide army wide rerolls. I'd leave the soul renders at home for this one and just jam as many reavers as you can. I'd also bring MSU reapers no reason to make the units big as it just makes them suffer more from battle shock. 

I think this list could be comparable to the regen list, and would probably have all the same weaknesses ad the thrall list. It's also subject to change with Aos 2.0 

Also think in the above list and also maybe any list 2 or 3 tide castwrs isn't a bad idea, as we have a pretty nice spell lore. 

 

I want to try a Reaver heavy list, just because I think the models look amazing and better than the Thralls (though I still like the Thralls). I have been struggling to figure out exactly what a Reaver list could/should do though.

[Austin]

5 hours ago, Mazin1 said:

I want to run this list. But is it too cheesy?

Storm

Sea

Tidecaster

Soul Scryer

3x 10  Thralls

3 Morr Sarr

Laviadon

I don't think it is cheesy at all.  I think the lack of bodies would make it hard to play, but nobody should complain about it.

[Thalion]

I do love the reavers models more than the thralls, but... are not they too average for their points? glade guard are cheaper, do the same, and has -3 rend once per battle. 

Reavers can potentially put out 30 shots per MSU if they dont have any casualties before getting into range, but they look more like a support-behind-the-anvil to help against low armor/bravery big blobs (like our thralls XD) more than a unit to build the entire list arround. 

If only we could get phoenix guard as allies for a reliable anvil...  Shield eels are tanky, but I dont think reavers can catch up with their movement.  Also wish i could fit 1-2 hydras, i think they match the aesthetics for a mor´phan enclave, but I find idoneth lists quite tight on points. 

[robinlvalentine]

What do you guys think are the standout allies for Idoneth? I'm planning on going Ionrach, and thinking about how best to benefit from their enclave ability. Probably going to take a unit of Khinerai Heartrenders to drop in and assasinate enemy characters, but beyond that what are the obvious candidates? I'm new to the game so not sure what's strong and what isn't yet really. 

I guess ranged stuff is the main thing, to make up for the Idoneth's relatively weak shooting? But can't be anything too vulnerable, as it doesn't benefit from Forgotten Nightmares. Hmm... 

[Austin]

3 hours ago, Thalion said:

I do love the reavers models more than the thralls, but... are not they too average for their points? glade guard are cheaper, do the same, and has -3 rend once per battle. 

Reavers can potentially put out 30 shots per MSU if they dont have any casualties before getting into range, but they look more like a support-behind-the-anvil to help against low armor/bravery big blobs (like our thralls XD) more than a unit to build the entire list arround. 

If only we could get phoenix guard as allies for a reliable anvil...  Shield eels are tanky, but I dont think reavers can catch up with their movement.  Also wish i could fit 1-2 hydras, i think they match the aesthetics for a mor´phan enclave, but I find idoneth lists quite tight on points. 

Soulcryers would help with movement, and Briomdar rules also,  which might help keep up with the shield eels. I don’t see any reason to take more than one Soulscryer though, which gets us right back to only taking two or three units. 

[kozokus]

35 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

I don’t see any reason to take more than one Soulscryer though

I do.

I don't like the "flanking" rule of the Soulscryer, just no. Flanking abilities are a little too obvious to be usable effectively and still ask you to be at 9".

Anyway, the second part, the +3 to charge is rather nice, and i do not see anything that tells me that it is not stackable. (So it stacks unless something tells me it does not)

Imagine :

-Your general is a tidecaster, so you can take the tides table backward.

-Your army is Fuethan, yup you can reroll 1's but who cares, the most important part is that you consider stage 4 like stage 2 on the tide table. SO it means turn1 run'n'charge, turn 2 Always Strike First.

-Run a tidecaster, 2 Scryer, a bunch of movement 12/14 units with the +1 movement artifact. On turn one, thoses are going to make a 16-21 advance-movement (or 14-19, if movement 12) with a  2D6+6 charge move (that you can probably reroll). 

-Next turn you are going ASF, so you might be in a good position.

 

[Namiriel]

The above combined with 2nd edition's "non general characters getting to use command abilities" means you can also do the above with Volt included. Gross. 

 

And if you have a keyword king, a Tidecaster and Soulscryer with a bunch of eels, it's pretty easy to make that a two drop. 

[Hoseman]

5 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

What do you guys think are the standout allies for Idoneth? I'm planning on going Ionrach, and thinking about how best to benefit from their enclave ability. Probably going to take a unit of Khinerai Heartrenders to drop in and assasinate enemy characters, but beyond that what are the obvious candidates? I'm new to the game so not sure what's strong and what isn't yet really. 

I guess ranged stuff is the main thing, to make up for the Idoneth's relatively weak shooting? But can't be anything too vulnerable, as it doesn't benefit from Forgotten Nightmares. Hmm... 

20 Glade guard + 20 Eternal guard = 400 points.

10 Judicators + 10 Eternal guard = 400 points.

This are my two options for allies to get ranged attaks.

Other things I have considered:

Vanguard Palladors + Neave Blacktalon ( I love their mobility) = 340 points.

10 paladin protectors = 400 points. Nice to go first

5 retributors +  Lord Celestant + 10 Eternal Guard = 400 points. Could change EG for Relictor to heal them to more support.

Tempestors or Fulminators (save 3+ rr1 and MW + debuff) + Celestant + Relictor. Lot of MW

Treelord Ancient (wizard, with Regrow healing D3 to non sylvaneth) + Eternal Guard or Tree Revenants. TR got a very nice teleport ability too.

More Tree revenants, they hit like Thralls with reroll once per phase + teleport when ever they want.

 

Hope u like it

[robinlvalentine]

6 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

20 Glade guard + 20 Eternal guard = 400 points.

10 Judicators + 10 Eternal guard = 400 points.

This are my two options for allies to get ranged attaks.

Other things I have considered:

Vanguard Palladors + Neave Blacktalon ( I love their mobility) = 340 points.

10 paladin protectors = 400 points. Nice to go first

5 retributors +  Lord Celestant + 10 Eternal Guard = 400 points. Could change EG for Relictor to heal them to more support.

Tempestors or Fulminators (save 3+ rr1 and MW + debuff) + Celestant + Relictor. Lot of MW

Treelord Ancient (wizard, with Regrow healing D3 to non sylvaneth) + Eternal Guard or Tree Revenants. TR got a very nice teleport ability too.

More Tree revenants, they hit like Thralls with reroll once per phase + teleport when ever they want.

 

Hope u like it

Thanks, lots to think about there! 

What makes the Eternal Guard so good? Is it just their durability? 

Looking at a couple of other ranged options, are Sisters Of The Watch, Shadow Warriors, or Kurnoth Hunters with bows any good at all?

[Acid_Nine]

Gah I wish I had more money than common sense I would already have a 1,000 points. I think I would still stick to my planned 1,000 points of :

 

Volternous: 280pts

Tide caster with some relic and abyssal Dorkness darkness: 100pts

6 speels: 320pts

3 shieelds: 140pts

3 shieelds: 140pts

ShipWreck: 0 points

 

So with AoS2 coming out, I'm hoping the endless spells would be worth having instead, and I'm hoping that things don't change too much in terms of tactics. Still would be fun I hope, but I'm going to need to wait for a while for me to get the funds up for this.

[Austin]

6 hours ago, kozokus said:

I do.

I don't like the "flanking" rule of the Soulscryer, just no. Flanking abilities are a little too obvious to be usable effectively and still ask you to be at 9".

Anyway, the second part, the +3 to charge is rather nice, and i do not see anything that tells me that it is not stackable. (So it stacks unless something tells me it does not)

Imagine :

-Your general is a tidecaster, so you can take the tides table backward.

-Your army is Fuethan, yup you can reroll 1's but who cares, the most important part is that you consider stage 4 like stage 2 on the tide table. SO it means turn1 run'n'charge, turn 2 Always Strike First.

-Run a tidecaster, 2 Scryer, a bunch of movement 12/14 units with the +1 movement artifact. On turn one, thoses are going to make a 16-21 advance-movement (or 14-19, if movement 12) with a  2D6+6 charge move (that you can probably reroll). 

-Next turn you are going ASF, so you might be in a good position.

 

Yes all of that is a good strat to try out. My point about soulscryers was in the context of a different discussion re: a Reaver heavy list. Yours seems to be in an akhelian focused army. Unless I’m missing something?

[Sactownbri]

On 5/16/2018 at 8:56 AM, robinlvalentine said:

It has six attacks total - two guns, each with three attacks. 

The FAQ updated the attack characteristic to 6 for the leviadon harpoon launcher. Now the model has 12 shots.?