New Aelves

[DantePQ]

On 2.03.2018 at 8:55 AM, Kirjava13 said:

Well I just want to say the new Battletome is delightful- quality of the product, rules and text aside, is stupidly high- and I am the proud owner of Morathi and twenty Witch Aelves.

Agreed rules wise its fantastic, wording is very solid no mistakes to capitalize on. It's compact but very high quality. Artwork, lore, rules GW really did fantastic job. 

[Turgol]

I found artwork quite lazy, as it is made mostly of WHFB images. The fluff is quite solid and well written in what there is,  but it is too slim. The army itself is nice in what there is. Still, it is quite a scarce “new faction” that feels artificial in the salvaging they did to have more heroes. 

As a whole release, I think it is ok and they came out with a solid faction, which hopefully will be expanded upon (both fluff wise and models wise)  to make it really complete.

[Gorthaur]

Issue is the artwork seems entirely based off the models, and does little to establish much else besides how they look in battle. I feel like GWs older books used to pay more attention to the setting, locations, bases, just more than digitally painted stylized versions of the models. I miss how developed Lustria and the whole Lizardmen zones were, it just felt rich and like a well thought out realistic place to some degree. The new books are more focused around pushing units/kits and the lore surrounded these models.

[Chikout]

35 minutes ago, Turgol said:

I found artwork quite lazy, as it is made mostly of WHFB images. The fluff is quite solid and well written in what there is,  but it is too slim. The army itself is nice in what there is. Still, it is quite a scarce “new faction” that feels artificial in the salvaging they did to have more heroes. 

As a whole release, I think it is ok and they came out with a solid faction, which hopefully will be expanded upon (both fluff wise and models wise)  to make it really complete.

Really? I just looked through the book and there are 11 new pieces of art and 3 reused from WHFB not counting the little graphics.

[Rogue Explorator]

I think looks wise the Idoneth might be based on a blend of the (rather extensive) nautical elements of both the old dark and high elf range.

With this in mind and looking at the Mystweaver I could see them be the "middle ground" of elvishness (like Wood Elves where in the Old World), neither particularly good or evil over all, but capable of being either to the most extreme point.

 

I have to admit I am getting antsy to finally see them, absolutely everything about them ticks a box for me (Sea Monsters, deep sea theme, abandoned by their creator for being flawed, likely "neutral" elves). DoK almost tempted me away from holding out for something new for Death, if these measure up to the same level of quality and do not throw any unexpected curveball on the reveal, they will propably do the job (especially as they would also justify getting some Melusai for allies).

[Turgol]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

Really? I just looked through the book and there are 11 new pieces of art and 3 reused from WHFB not counting the little graphics.

I just checked and counted 6 new (cover art, Morathi as oracle in front of witch aelves, shadow queen with melusai, khinerai v  Slaanesh, khinerai, bloodwrack shrine with melusai) and 4 old (Morathi dressed black with sacrifical dagger, witch elves, daughters of slaughter, cauldron of blood). Maybe you are counting as well the witch aelves/sister of slaughter that illustrate each sect. Be as it may, it is quite little.

As Gorthaur said though, I think this BT (and most others) miss on setting fluff and artwork. There is no large description of Hagg Narr, its region or even Ulgu. No illustrations as well of that. The thing I found the most refreshing in both LoN and MP was precisely it dealing mainly with Shyish, with some simple but very telling artwork. So far, Shyish is by far the best result they have got in terms of setting development. I would have thought it was the hardest and potentially most boring, but it is the best so far.

[Overread]

Honestly the way that Sigmar began chances are GW hasn't really got a proper handle on what the setting is yet. 

Sigmar was basically a huge marketing move and nothing more and since it tossed out so much lore its likely that writers within GW are still feeling the sting of losing all that background and are trying to scrabble something else together. So it makes sense that they focus way more on the actors than the stage.

 

It might also be that they are going to rebuild the world yet again at some point, so they don't want to devote too much time to a setting that might be rebuilt up again or somesuch. 

[Gorthaur]

In the older Warhammer days you would get all the lore and world building in the army books that you really needed. With AoS I feel like a lot of that is in the novels, which I don't have the time/energy or any interest in reading. So don't anyone cite the novels as a proper way of developing proper lore and stuff for the game. The expensive army books should adequately develop the world in which the game is set in, as it has been in the past. As far as i'm concerned AoS is a nice looking game and has a good aesthetic but it's about as shallow as a puddle.

[AthlorianStoners]

27 minutes ago, Gorthaur said:

In the older Warhammer days you would get all the lore and world building in the army books that you really needed. With AoS I feel like a lot of that is in the novels, which I don't have the time/energy or any interest in reading. So don't anyone cite the novels as a proper way of developing proper lore and stuff for the game. The expensive army books should adequately develop the world in which the game is set in, as it has been in the past. As far as i'm concerned AoS is a nice looking game and has a good aesthetic but it's about as shallow as a puddle.

It’s s different game though. The standards and expectations should be different. 

[Edgecoc]

4 hours ago, Rogue Explorator said:

I think looks wise the Idoneth might be based on a blend of the (rather extensive) nautical elements of both the old dark and high elf range.

With this in mind and looking at the Mystweaver I could see them be the "middle ground" of elvishness (like Wood Elves where in the Old World), neither particularly good or evil over all, but capable of being either to the most extreme point.

 

I have to admit I am getting antsy to finally see them, absolutely everything about them ticks a box for me (Sea Monsters, deep sea theme, abandoned by their creator for being flawed, likely "neutral" elves). DoK almost tempted me away from holding out for something new for Death, if these measure up to the same level of quality and do not throw any unexpected curveball on the reveal, they will propably do the job (especially as they would also justify getting some Melusai for allies).

I’m with you there. It is also the first time in my life I cared about the High Elves. 

[Olincay]

4 hours ago, Overread said:

Honestly the way that Sigmar began chances are GW hasn't really got a proper handle on what the setting is yet. 

Sigmar was basically a huge marketing move and nothing more and since it tossed out so much lore its likely that writers within GW are still feeling the sting of losing all that background and are trying to scrabble something else together. So it makes sense that they focus way more on the actors than the stage.

 

It might also be that they are going to rebuild the world yet again at some point, so they don't want to devote too much time to a setting that might be rebuilt up again or somesuch. 

Qué? 

[Amradiel]

Snippet from Idoneth deepkin thread:

"Is a complete new line like kharadrons Underwater aesthetic mix greek atlanteans and eldar corsair. They have been hiding in underwater cities and have control over some sea fauna, water and mist. I cannot be more specific but the apparently reason for being hiding is that they hides something in secret. Beautiful models, same size that blood bowl elven union and some models have great potential for conversions into custom exodites"

"The new aelf range are Mathlann followers"

"Atlantean aesthetic, some are very similar to Kairic Acolytes with Spite-Revenants face, anothers looks a lot more eldar - Mistweaver Saih are part of the range."

About the glub glub video "This is an actual piece of scenery GW is going to sell, and that will have its own rules like the Sylvaneth Wyldwood. It's part of the entire Sea Aelves new range, which are absolutely stunning visually, will have tons of sea creatures to ride, one of which is MASSIVE, and unique high cost heroes with crazy design. Also forget about the Cthullu look, their design is closer to Atlantean Spartans."

[Tiger]

5 hours ago, Gorthaur said:

With AoS I feel like a lot of that is in the novels, which I don't have the time/energy or any interest in reading.

I like to read but for a wargame it doesn't appear to me as a good way to build a universe. Most of the times the novels don't want to be anything else than an action novel, certain information is just thrown there without any detailed context or somehow assumed that it's common knowladge. For instance you have light priests who use mirrors and bending of the light to show one of Tyrion's heroic deeds. I can understand that the author put it there to have an element to paint over the image of the generic bazar, however considering how little we know of Tyrion he also risked that the reader is suddenly more interested in the display than whatever our characters are doing, which at the given moment wasn't anything of importance.

The expansion books are another element that GW is likely going to focus and that only enlarges the pile of books needed to understand what's actually going on. The WH streams, free stories and introduction of the heralds are excellent way to give that information for free, however the entire systems they've set appears rather demanding from those who don't mind reading/buying AoS books (I still haven't went through all the MP stories) and utterly bothersome for those who might want to know more but don't enjoy reading.

The old core books of WHFB and core battle tomes tended to give you enough information to know about the world and races. Maybe in AoS v2 we might see something like that, but that should be many years in the future.

[Menkeroth]

10 hours ago, Gorthaur said:

In the older Warhammer days you would get all the lore and world building in the army books that you really needed. With AoS I feel like a lot of that is in the novels, which I don't have the time/energy or any interest in reading. So don't anyone cite the novels as a proper way of developing proper lore and stuff for the game. The expensive army books should adequately develop the world in which the game is set in, as it has been in the past. As far as i'm concerned AoS is a nice looking game and has a good aesthetic but it's about as shallow as a puddle.

that's not true.

[DantePQ]

Yep it's not true, I've been playing WFB since 5ed edition, and sure Army Books had a lot of fluff and stories but it 7ed and 8ed it was just basic info. And remember that back in 5-6 edition BL wasn't such a big deal. 

But there was a lot of stuff in WD, Campaign books etc. (like Albion, War of Beard), novels etc. Also it was much easier World to understand as it was based on Tolkien so a lot of themes were familiar. AoS start was rough but since DoT and City of Secrets GW did amazing job, Kharadrons stuff, Malign Portents stories, flashing out this unviverse. Sure it's harder to grasp then LOTR clone but you don't need countless books. I just read some summary on the web, few books (Sylvaneth one and City of Secrets), lore from both WHQuest games and some Battletomes and don't think it's shallow - it has awesome potential but GW didn't have time to fully build  it as there are countless factions that need to be established - like Aelves, Destruction, Free Cities. I think when 2nd edition will come (if it comes it down to GW as they may scrap whole "editions" stuff) in like 2 years AoS world will be very established with numerous factions with their agenda . But with AoS GW doesn't have Tolkien-esque world to base on but are building something very new and fresh. 

[Menkeroth]

7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Sure it's harder to grasp then LOTR clone but you don't need countless books. I just read some summary on the web, few books (Sylvaneth one and City of Secrets), lore from both WHQuest games and some Battletomes and don't think it's shallow - it has awesome potential but GW didn't have time to fully build  it as there are countless factions that need to be established - like Aelves, Destruction, Free Cities.

Exactly. GW is trying hard to develop the setting, although they don't really need to be in a hurry. After all, the development is a constant process, and time can wait. But they did do an amazing amount of work put into it already.

9 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I think when 2nd edition will come (if it comes it down to GW as they may scrap whole "editions" stuff) in like 2 years AoS world will be very established with numerous factions with their agenda

it's already well established - 3 years were not for nothing after all. They just started with the plot campaign rather than the general rules and borders, but that's not bad either. And for all those who don't know the setting yet there is "Getting started with the Age of Sigmar", for instance.

10 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

But with AoS GW doesn't have Tolkien-esque world to base on but are building something very new and fresh. 

Yes, what I appreciate in their efforts the most. The setting, like DnD (and especially MtG) is based more on myths like Scandinavian ones (even the number of realms is 8) but it appears people have forgotten all that stuff. 

[Turgol]

I don’t agree either with the description AoS is shallow. I do agree that BTs are very slim and shallow when compared with 40k codex and especially WH army books. I do agree as well that BL novels fulfill another purpose and are not meant to set the setting. After all, BL writers work within the construct and instructions provided by GW. 

But again, there has been some good progress in some publications. Shyish in both MP and LoN, Hammerhal, MP short stories are all really what is needed. It’s just the BTs that are still lacking fluffwise and setting developing wise.

I also feel we lack a big introduction in the style of fluff section in 40k and WHFB rulebooks (now also fluffbook in 40k). But yeah, we are still in reveal phase, so that can only be developped once all main factions are introduced. And that will not take place for at least 3-5 years. BTs, on the other hand, could already do better.

[Sharkbelly]

The one thing I do miss is how the old core rulebooks had a lot of history and information about the warhammer world in them. You could pick it up and read a little about all of the different armies and parts of the world. Eventually, I'd love to see something like that for Age of Sigmar.

[Menkeroth]

It is called "Getting started with the Age of Sigmar"

[Sete]

What's frustrating is the fact that we only have the name, and a bit of theme.

Nothing more. Not a tease. No artwork. Not even a sketch. Just a damn goldfish in an aquarium with a boat.

I'm dying here GW! dying! ?

[Keldaur]

2 hours ago, Sete said:

What's frustrating is the fact that we only have the name, and a bit of theme.

Nothing more. Not a tease. No artwork. Not even a sketch. Just a damn goldfish in an aquarium with a boat.

I'm dying here GW! dying! ?

To be fair, we got what we got from lore snippets and leaks. Just give them time.

[Bloodmaster]

If they want to ride the hypetrain, time is a scarce resource ;-P. With the wrack video out an d the lore snippets all over the web, they should have put out a teaser video like the first one for the DoK this Saturday no matter if there was an Open Day planed or not - even more so after they rightfully cancelled the Open Day. But hey, gama is just a bit less then 14 days out and the week just started, so lets see what happens. If they plan an Idroneth Reveal at Adepticon, a bit more teasing has to start soon-ish.

[Chikout]

Waited all weekend for news only for 40k to steal AOS’s thunder once again ?

[Barkanaut]

Get used to it. However it’s kind of good as it makes the cool stuff we get that much better.

[Chikout]

Ok now gw is just taking the Michael! A forgeworld preview too!