New nighthaunt spotted. !!!!!

[RuneBrush]

Just now, bsharitt said:

Did it it sound to be mostly in the context of new stuff going forward, or did it  sound like current warscrolls with aura abilities would likely be  updated?

It sounded like a going forward but when time allowed retrospective change.  I think things like the Bloodsecrator will need more careful changing as it'll affect things like Gore Pilgrims so can't see there being a big change rolled out (could well be wrong on that though!)

2 minutes ago, Dauzy said:

Nagash Bidding is cool for him and over nearest units = Happy

One thing that I'm really curious on is how Nagash is going to interact with the new army.  Do we think we're going to have a Nighthaunt Nagash warscroll? or something else?  I'm also wondering if they're going to change the allies list for the Legion armies.

[bsharitt]

2 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

One thing that I'm really curious on is how Nagash is going to interact with the new army.  Do we think we're going to have a Nighthaunt Nagash warscroll? or something else?  I'm also wondering if they're going to change the allies list for the Legion armies.

I think it would be interesting to see Nagash get keywords for the various death factions the way Archaon has for all the chaos gods.

[Inqy]

Also, the other thing about that Torment's healing that makes it potentially better than Deathly Invocation, it's not restricted to SUMMONABLE units. So you can use it to heal heroes and elite units.

[Nullius]

I’m hoping Nagash can still be the general of this army, although I noticed that the revealed warscroll does not have the LON keyword. But I sort of feel like Nagash should be able to lead any death army by virtue of being able to just show up and puppeteer all of them. It’s significant because Nighthaunt is not listed as an ally with Legions of Nagash. (Which would make it possibly hard to take any of these new units in a LON army).

[AverageBoss]

3 minutes ago, Nullius said:

I’m hoping Nagash can still be the general of this army, although I noticed that the revealed warscroll does not have the LON keyword. But I sort of feel like Nagash should be able to lead any death army by virtue of being able to just show up and puppeteer all of them. It’s significant because Nighthaunt is not listed as an ally with Legions of Nagash. (Which would make it possibly hard to take any of these new units in a LON army).

Well, there is no LON keyword. The units in the LoN book are granted the opportunity to gain one of 4 allegiance keywords presented in the said book. The new Nighthaunt units would have to be given a similar ability, either through the allegiance section of their book, or via FAQ.

[Ahn-ket]

6 minutes ago, Nullius said:

I’m hoping Nagash can still be the general of this army, although I noticed that the revealed warscroll does not have the LON keyword. But I sort of feel like Nagash should be able to lead any death army by virtue of being able to just show up and puppeteer all of them. It’s significant because Nighthaunt is not listed as an ally with Legions of Nagash. (Which would make it possibly hard to take any of these new units in a LON army).

Actually its impossible to take any of them

[Nullius]

14 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said:

Actually its impossible to take any of them

Well, unless they have a sidebar in their book to the effect of being able to gain the LON keyword, or if the next GHB simply lists them as possible allies with the updated points.

[Sception]

+3 inches does not balance out 'Wholly Within.  +6 to +9 inches is more in line with the tradeoff there, at least for hordy armies, imo.  Still, 12" radius isn't that bad.

It looks like a lowish value support hero.  If its points costs are in line with that (somewhere in the 60 to 80 points range), should be fine.  Can be more than that if AoS 2e introduces screening or look out sir rules.  Not a unit with a lot of wow-factor in its mechanics, but we're still early in the previews, so we'll see.

@Inqy - thanks for the pickup on the every-player's-battleshock thing, I failed to notice that.  It puts its healing on par with a necro's or wight's invocation, albeit with preconditions.

[Ahn-ket]

That's right time will tell

[Sception]

I expect they'll be legal allies for the legion allegiances, but not vice versa.  Vice versa, they'll have specific allies out of them, same as current.  Like you can ally in soulblight but not deathmages, etc.

[Elmir]

19 minutes ago, Sception said:

I expect they'll be legal allies for the legion allegiances, but not vice versa.  Vice versa, they'll have specific allies out of them, same as current.  Like you can ally in soulblight but not deathmages, etc.

Really? I think the death faction is still bound to existing keywords (like soulblight, deathmages, deathlords etc) for handling allies. The legion keywords are only things that get added to your warscrolls if you pick that allegiance. 

I can see the nighthaunt becoming allies with deathlords and soulblight, same as they are now. Maybe with a caveat that you can't take any mortarchs unless the mortarch of Grief is also present....  I'll also be very interested to see how many of the new warscrolls will have the summonable keyword to benefit from having vampire lord/deathlord allies with deathly invocation. 

Just an extra month of patience! At least it gives me an excuse to finish the 10 hexwraiths and 6 spirit hosts I recently bought

[Sception]

Flesh Eater Courts are valid allies for the legion allegiances (but not vice versa).  I expect Nighthaunt will be the same way now that they're getting their own book.

[Elmir]

Ah, you mean in that direction... Having NH added to the ally matrix of the whole of LoN. That makes sense. 

[El Syf]

Hi everyone quite new here, just wanted to chime in and say how good it is GW have made a full army out of what was a rather small sub faction. It bodes well for the other sub factions too I think :).  Preorders are going to be hectic for next month...

[Sception]

23 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Ah, you mean in that direction... Having NH added to the ally matrix of the whole of LoN. That makes sense. 

Yeah, I expect the ally situation will be very much like flesh eaters.  Any legion allegiance can take flesh eater units using ally points, but flesh eater armies can only pull allies from a handful of the previous allegiances (soulblight, etc).  Likewise, I expect, with the new nighthaunt.  I don't think they'll make the new units unusable in existing legion of nagash armies, because they want to sell more models.  But I don't think nighthaunt primary armies  will get any new ally options out of the change.

[Vasshpit]

Anyone know for sure what size bases the new horse spooks are on? 

Same as Hexwraiths or the next oval size up. Trying to figure some conversions to bring old Hexwraiths models up to par with newer ones. 

[bonzai]

My #1 hope is that they change the allies for them to include death mages. Then they can finally ally in Mortis Engines, and Necromancers. 

First, take the Necromancer. Spirit hosts are summonable in the LoN, so they can benefit from deathly invocation and the danse macabre. Odds are good that some of the new stuff will have the summonable keyword as well. Second, they are unlikely to change the rules for the black coach after printing them only a few months ago in LoN. It needs death wizards to power up, and it only makes sense to add deathmages as allies.

As for the Mortis Engine, it also has some great synergies. Healing, ranged mortal wound out put, casting buff for the new night haunt wizard, and it synergies with the terrifying entity command trait if it gets reprinted.

This is my biggest hope. It made no sense that they couldn't ally before, and makes even less sense now.

[Urauloth]

I'd expect Malignant, not Deathmages - that gets you the Mortis Engine and aligns with the start collecting set, and I notice the Torment has that keyword as well.

As for the Black Coach, it doesn't get its juice from wizards in a Nighthaunt allegiance army, but rather from Nighthaunt heroes. The battletome version will almost certainly work a similar way.

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, Urauloth said:

I'd expect Malignant, not Deathmages

Malignant is a race not a faction. It'd be like having Skeletons rather than Deathrattle as an ally. So f they do expand the allies to possibly include the Mortis Engine, it would be Deathmages. I don't think they will at this point since they don't seem to really care if the the old Start Collecting boxes "work".

[AverageBoss]

There are now two different Terrorghiests and Zombie Dragons (Legion and FEC versions) that have slightly different rules. Could be the same for the new Black Coach. It would be pretty odd if its rules did not change honestly due to now having more mounts pulling it and more wraith attendants. It would also very well replace the Legions warscroll simultaneously. The new model was not available when LoN went to print afterall.

[CDM]

4 hours ago, Nullius said:

I’m hoping Nagash can still be the general of this army, although I noticed that the revealed warscroll does not have the LON keyword. But I sort of feel like Nagash should be able to lead any death army by virtue of being able to just show up and puppeteer all of them. It’s significant because Nighthaunt is not listed as an ally with Legions of Nagash. (Which would make it possibly hard to take any of these new units in a LON army).

Allies?

[bsharitt]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

There are now two different Terrorghiests and Zombie Dragons (Legion and FEC versions) that have slightly different rules. Could be the same for the new Black Coach. It would be pretty odd if its rules did not change honestly due to now having more mounts pulling it and more wraith attendants. It would also very well replace the Legions warscroll simultaneously. The new model was not available when LoN went to print afterall.

I finally got a chance to look at the wording in the Battletome, and it specifies units in the book, not warscrolls. So if the Black Coach gets a spiffy new warscroll to go with that new model(again, it should) and there's not errata that changes it, I would think it would legal in a Legion list along with any potential updated warscrolls for the other existing Nighthaunt warscrolls that might get an update.

[Anthony225]

9 hours ago, Elmir said:

I disagree with it (also owning and having painted all the warbands...) These 4 models don't have nearly enough distinctive characteristics  compared to each other to be a shadespire warband I think...  All carry the exact same weaponry (already something you never see in shadespire warbands) and don't have any distinct armor pieces/helmets etc... 

Also, the daggers of these 4 models don't match the heavy swords you see on the spectral parry card... neither do they have a noose around the neck like the artwork of the card has (none of them do). The specific shadespire cards tend to have an image of at least 1 of their members performing the action , and  the models simply don't match the artwork. 

In fact, closer inspection of the other revealed models, show some models with scenic bases, and some without (same goes for the stormcast eternal models , some have scenic bases, some don't)... I think the scenic bases might be because these are push-fit models belonging to the new starterset instead of new shadespire warbands.... The new nighthaunt cavalry also have the same style scenic bases and they wouldn't even fit inside a shadespire hex!

 

I don't think you can really compare art from cards to warband members as there are plenty of cards with art that don't match any fighter within a specific warband. 

For me the style of the nighthaunt presumed warband of discussion is spot on to all the other shadespire bases. Especially Stormcast ones. 

And I'm not sure "none of the fighters have distinct weapons or armour" is a solid argument as there is nothing to stop them from making 4 models have the same stats, albeit that would be boring so I hope they are different. The 4 of them are in very different poses and that is what they are distinguished by according to all of the current warbands with the actual picture of the plastic miniature on the fighter card.

[Incineroar87]

I hope they introduce some wizards outside of the Mortach.

[skool]

13 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

I hope they introduce some wizards outside of the Mortach.

They did it's the Guardian of Souls!