Mcthew

Happy to stand corrected, but on explanation. How is it wrong?

We've read the WLC rules differently. We see the WLC blast as a series of hits rather than just one attack, hence rolling x dice for 1 MW each, rather than one dice to determine the level of damage. The latter interpretation aligns with cannon-type damage. The former more like prolonged warp fire barrage of destruction.

So last night we proxied Gotrek against Skaventide and we didn't use T&B as in the WHCommunity article, but instead rattling guns, stormfiends and Warplightning cannon as the mainstay for a 1000 pt game. The unit of liberators we opted for in the Stormcast/Gotrek force, did a job of shielding Gotrek for a turn but were pasted by the WLC and wind launcher in turn 1. After a double turn from the pesky rats, the rattling guns and stormfiends both unloaded (and ungimbled) on Gotrek causing 6 wounds from around 45 shots. Gotrek pasted the stormfiends that turn but was just a duardin smear after turn 3 when the WLC inflicted another 2 wounds. So, yeah, he can be killed, like anything in this game can. Just need a little luck and a Gotrek blasting army to do it! (Losses to Skaventide vs Gotrek were 1 unit of stormfiends, and 1 WLC after using more-more warp power twice)

Has anyone actually played Gotrek yet using oldhammer/proxy models? Sure, GW says it will kill any model in the game, but they are trying to sell Gotrek, right? They ain't gonna say the model looks good, but plays like a donkey. We're planning to put him through his paces against some Skaventide next week. Let's see how well he fights against rattling guns and a blob of clanrats attacking twice!!! (Yh, I know, he'll probably tank em but I'm an optimist. )

Plus if you already have a Gotrek from WFB days then £30-40 is a disincentive to trade up.

Yeah, good points. They'll want to appeal to non-Order players just to have a legend in their collection. Price him too high and, well, players will buy Griffins instead!

Well, I'm thinking between £20-25. Would be a fair price to pay. But points might inflate the value somewhat and you can never predict GWs pricing (not an exact science, I always imagine staff throwing darts at a board in Bugman's, when it comes to pricing)

Now that we know his points value, and what the new model looks like, any guesses on the princely monetary price for Gotrek when it goes for pre-order? (Edit: the warscroll provided a moment of jaw dropping, but this could be the most expensive tiny blob of plastic GW has ever put out)

Thanks, that's good to know. So even if they take Slaanesh as the keyword it means they don't get any host buffs either?

Newbie Slaanesh player here, trying not to ask any noob questions , but... What's everyone's experiences of using the StD units in Slaanesh hosts? Am I reading this right, that you can use Slaves to Darkness units without using them as allies? If so, are Chaos Knights any good as a heavy cavalry variation to the Seekers? Any place for Chaos Warriors in a list? And what about Lords of Chaos and Sorcerer Lords? Only asking as I have blobs of StD as well as an KoS, a unit of 20 daemonettes, 5 seekers and 3 fiends, and without spending a shed-load more, I'm looking at whether adding the above units would help make an ok/fun to play Slaanesh army. Thanks

I agree. The only time I found this problem negated in AoS game was when we adopted alternate activation of units rather than alteranate activation of armies as an experimental battle round. It was complicated but far more strategic than "you move and shoot your army and now I'll do the same." Its the way Dystopian Wars and others structure a battle round and it kinda works (although you still prioritise your strike units obviously, so there's a microcosm double turn going on, but not for the entire battlefield.) Putting it simply, we rolled for initiative of choosing which unit moved/shot/charged etc first, and then alternated picking units to go through all the phases until every unit had gone from hero phase to combat. My opponent had 2 more units than me which meant he had 2 unopposed turns with those units. This worked well for his counter attack after my deep strike. All in one battle round. We might try this again for 2000point battle with more units.

Not enemies as such, just a bit misguided. This is an expensive hobby and for some it takes years of investment of money and time to have an army that's matched play suitable. Scrapping armies is not good for loyalty and discourages the hobby than encourages. GW has history of this. But, on the other hand this might not be a scrapping of units/factions just a chance to update the models, if gamers so wish. That would be better, although unlikely. It's quite likely, however, that the factions will remain as allies to any Cities army, as we've seen with Green Skinz and Gloomspite. Perhaps not as a back bone, but 400 pts of say Dispossessed might come in handy?

Hopefully it will sell well. Although I'm not totally convinced yet. Some of the Warhammer stores I've visited had empty demo tables. No one was interested. Some of the third party hobby stores ive talked to have had no pre-orders. It's a good box set, great figures, great terrain, but it's too confused. Its Chaos vs Chaos. Imagine AoS kicking off as a starter boxset using Wrath and Rapture. Who would be drawn in then? Not casual gamers. And it's a new game system to master, when AoS seems to change so often that many players are just catching up again. Not to mention AoS universe still have a perfectly serviceable Skirmish system using existing rules and more flexibility. Warcry will be a slow burner. If enough people play it and word of mouth says it's awesome then it will save it from being that hobby that's sold piecemeal on eBay in 12 months time.

After all my initial excitement, pragmatism has stepped in. Sure, the starter set looks amazing, and I'm a sucker for terrain. But it'll be interesting to see how popular Warcry is based on the big differences between the AoS warscrolls and these stat cards. After all, AoS has a perfectly serviceable Skirmish ruleset that doesn't require an investment of time and money to learn, unlike 40k, which really did need Kill Team, and unlike Warhammer Quest in the absence of an RPG/adventure system set in AoS. But I'll be honest, that investment is a turn off. Sure, the models look cool and if they get the Warhammer Quest/Underworlds treatment of AoS warscrolls, I'll buy the occasional war band, but not as Warcry. There's so much you can do with a game system like AoS. The flexibility of abilities and traits and artefacts makes it completely customisable from small skirmishes to campaigns, that you don't need another game system. This is GW doing what GW does, trying to get more money out of gamers, which I can't fault them doing. It's just a little... unnecessary, when they could put more of that effort into AoS with factions and models, than be distracted with something that could be unplayed in a year or two. I'm glad there's people here on the forum who are still excited about this, as it won't tank and that's good for GW and the hobby. After all, while GW remain successful our main focus, AoS, will keep going and improving.

Mmm. In fact with skaven, some units are noticeably cheaper such as rattling guns and stormvermin. Considering that with buffs (and taking risks by releasing that gimble-limiter) could have you on average dealing 12 hits with re-rolls, dealing 2 damage (using a warp spark) per turn, and at range, means that 60 points is a steal. That's 3 units of ratguns for 2, effectively. And 240 points for a blob of armoured stormvermin that will have 2 attacks each and hit and wound on 3s (plus an extra attack if a claw lord is nearby), and have a 4+ save is a bit OP for the cost. It looks like those nasty plaguemonks and their lords have taken the brunt of those nerfs. Clans Verminus and Skrye seem to have escaped in a better position than before I'd say.

Brokk is someone who slipped thru the net somewhat! Cant believe I don't have Brokk and you're right, in any list. So yeah, the next purchase is going to be that fella for sure!

Yep - only reason I won was down to skyhook buffs from the khemist. For a 1k pt battle, I find warscroll battalions impractical although changing my skyport may have helped. Even then the damage dealt by 350 pts of model was pretty awful, and wouldn't be much better with re-rolls. My opponent loved the look of the ships but found them pathetic in the game (a definite turn off, in case GW are reading this). And I know comparing KO to other factions opens me to a world of hurt, but hey I'm hurting!

Help... I need some 'bearded' TLC! I've just returned from a 1,000 point game against a friend's Skaventide, which I won on victory points. However, it's a game I feel I lost. A bit of background: I ran with a handful of arkie companies, a trio of endriggers, a couple of heroes, and because of that hefty discount, I went with a frigate and gunhauler. And damn if they didn't look good, even against the scurrying hordes of clanrats and doomwheels. Heck, I'd even say they looked magnificent, and that's part of the problem. Kharadron look so good, but hit like pansies. My companies did fair damage (wiped out a unit of rat ogres and stormfiends) before losing two thirds of their strength, and I won the game due to camping on objectives as long as feasibly possible. But to be honest, if my friend was more experienced, he would have wiped the floor with me by round four. A combination of lousy dice rolls, and lousier warscrolls did for me in some respects, as it did my enjoyment of the game. But it was the frigate and gunhauler that were the biggest waste of points. I mean, 130 points is still too much for a blob of wounds that does naff all, likewise for the frigate. In 5 rounds, I managed to damage something just once with both great cannons. Once man! Sure, I had some unlucky dice rolls, but in one battle if you are in range from the get-go, a great cannon can shoot 5 times a game. So I had 10 chances! I hit twice, (failed 1 wound roll) so managed 3 wounds from D6 damage on the one successful hit and wound roll I made, before the frigate was nuked out of existence by stormfiends and the archwarlock. Then the gunhauler was overwhelmed by clanrats. But you know, when you look at the scroll, that really is the best it can do, 'cos carbines and belaying valves and all the other shiny rubbish that comes with a frigates and gunhaulers are as effective (and as fun) as trying to play golf with a tennis racket. I have been tempted - so very tempted - to go back to investing in Kharadron, but they just feel broken to me, regardless of the point changes. They feel like an embarrassment for AoS (a shooty army in a game that's weighted towards melee combat). They look great though. Really good. So it's a torment. There's so much GW could do to get the balance right (short range on the privateer pistols, a +1 modifier to hit with the great cannons if the frigate hasn't moved etc etc), but I can't see GW bringing out a battletome for some time for KOs. And I won't be buying any new gunhaulers or frigates just cos the points have gone down (they're still rubbish and will still cost around £30 -£50 to buy something that's no fun playing with). The skaven, on the other hand, despite being suicidal and having manic tendencies, did look like fun. And recently, you know... I have been drawn towards cheese products over a good pint of mead... Squeak...

Having fought the good fight from a deck of a frigate last few games, can only agree. Massive shame really. Saving throw is too low, the cannon is too weak... For me, a frigate needs a 3 up save to start, and the cannon needs longer range, albeit happy for the to hit to be worse if that's the case. Or maybe a modifier to say shooting over 18" it has a -1 to hit modifier instead. Gives you the option. Then there's the peculiarity of having a model as part of the ship, but not the abilities: i.e. the Navigator. Why doesn't the frigate have unbinding abilities? It clearly has the model for it. The gameplay doesn't match the concept, which is a mystery. Like with (far too) many GW decisions, there's a disconnect between game designers and model designers. As a player we have to make up for that. At the moment I'm trying out having the Navigator as a bought hero embarked on the frigate as there are no rules for the frigate that reflect him being there. Anyone else tried that?

I’ve also been tempted by the SC as Nurgle is the only Chaos army I’ve not collected. But damn, it just feels like the SC set is, well, underwhelming. Not really bang for your bucks. I mean it’s only just over 500 points, isn’t it? Compared to ... gulp .... 700 points in the Tzeentch set. And Tzeentch is cheaper and has more miniatures! It’s those little that really grate from GW and make me hesitate. 🤨

For me it’s the saving throw, the damage it can deal and the level 2 spell casting that makes the Archwarlock a tough sonova and helpful to have not just for a heavy Skryre force. The warlocks, on the other hand, can be taken out relatively easily can only cast one specific spell, not the range of spells open to other wizards, and that makes them limited. Still, I’m gonna field them both this Friday with a Skaventide force to see how they might work out ... against Tzeentch. gulp 😱

Thanks - that’s great advice. Much appreciated. I’ve got an Oldhammer zombie dragon that’s quite decrepit (as you’d expect but more so) that’s so stooping it’s lower than a SC Liberator. I reckon if I base it appropriately it may be the equal of current zombie dragons and save me a few quid!

Brilliant - thanks. Basing will be a challenge so I’m gonna look at converting the square bases to chunkier rounds of 25mm.

Back in the day, during the World that Was, not content with owning one Regiment of Renown, I was given two boxes of Nightmare Legion - 40 skels in chainmail, with helmets and two-handed halberds, and whole lot of vengeful spirit! The stats for these guys I recall were a little souped up, the equivalent of AoS Graveguard so it got me thinking whether these are legitimate Graveguard models for matched play? Certainly in private games I can use them that way, but are they a legitimate proxy for Graveguard in tournaments? (They’re too armoured for standard skels in my book.) What do you think..?

So, while my son and I have sizeable Order and Chaos armies, I'm a noob when it comes to Age of Sigmar grots. Back in the Oldhammer days I had a pretty sizeable goblin army with orc allies, mangler etc and it was loads of fun, but with the AoS starter sets and all, Chaos and Order were the better options when it came to kickstarting the hobby. Now with the release of the Loonshrine (a pretty impressive piece of scenery IMO) I'm hooked by all things green and grumpy (and ever so sneaky). This week I took the plunge with 40 moonclan grots from eBay (20 shootas, 20 stickas), and will almost certainly by the battletome. However, I'm now scratching my head as to what next to get? In terms of allies, I have a start collecting set of Greenskinz, so I've got the orruk heavy cavalry with the boar riders and chariot, and I like the look of the Troggoths and fantatics. So what's worth the points and the purchases (other than the Loonshrine which is my must-get)? Any advice would be massively appreciated ... as I turn to the green side of my force. 😁