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Arkiham

Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

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So given the  (albeit small) points cuts to the battalion and skullreapers in addition to a more durable bloodstoker, what do people think of the skulltake? Do you guys think it could be more viable now?

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The problem of the Skulltake is 

1) it's heavily dependant of the survival of the bloodstocker, one very fragile character

2) it doesn't help the mortal khorne with their weakness : going FAST into melee. The skulltake make the army EXTREMELY brutal  but you are still a 5 move army without run+charge and just a selec few bonus to one. I played it back before ghb17 when skullreapers were at 140, so in a time where it was better than it could be today, and reaching the fight on my own term was a problem

Meanwhile, Nurgle, Slaneesh and Tzeentch have bonus move+ run+charge+bonus to both on their melee unit and can cross the table in one turn :/

However, since shooting is a bit weaker right now and most of the armies are encouraged to go into melee, it could see some use. But even with the point drop, it is at best 40 pts cheaper than what is was before...

Edited by ledha

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17 hours ago, Xasz said:

Bloodmarked is +60

Damn... another kidney punch. :-(

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Overall I'm quite disappointed with all this. It's not like Khorne was overly played or winning tournaments regularly right?

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2 hours ago, phizzco said:

Overall I'm quite disappointed with all this. It's not like Khorne was overly played or winning tournaments regularly right?

I think it's a bit early to be disappointed, we are all looking at BoK in isolation. Nothing in the book was massively over costed and number of other factions have had point tweaks up on main units.

The ability to summon new units is a real boon and I think could really help us with objective play.

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4 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

I think it's a bit early to be disappointed, we are all looking at BoK in isolation. Nothing in the book was massively over costed and number of other factions have had point tweaks up on main units.

The ability to summon new units is a real boon and I think could really help us with objective play.

It's not.

We already have the vast majority of changes laid out before us. On reddit there is a big thread about all known point changes, on 4chan there are screenshots of all realm artifacts and on the remaining sites like war-of-sigmar you'll find the rest. At this point we have rather complete information about AoS2.0.

I even got to know the changes to StD which were not what I was hoping for...  shrine -20 and some character going up, everything else is the same.

Just as a quick reminder, Khorne summoning is far from good and will probably have little effect on the game. The summoning systems of Tzeentch and Nurgle are far superior and more of a bonus, while ours overlaps with the existing Blood Tithe abilities. The worst part is, that all excess points are wasted after activation, making the whole system rather clunky and wasteful.

As it stands, in the best case scenario Khorne only got slightly worse but it definitely is not going to get better. Telling yourself that we have to wait for even more information is a bit naive, as we already (and sadly) know all the relevant pieces (we could still wait for narrative play infos eh?). The only way I see Khorne getting to the top tables with AoS2.0, is finding a way to maliciously abuse something. (I'm still having high and desperate hopes for the Blood Factory :D)

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1 hour ago, Xasz said:

It's not.

We already have the vast majority of changes laid out before us. On reddit there is a big thread about all known point changes, on 4chan there are screenshots of all realm artifacts and on the remaining sites like war-of-sigmar you'll find the rest. At this point we have rather complete information about AoS2.0.

I even got to know the changes to StD which were not what I was hoping for...  shrine -20 and some character going up, everything else is the same.

Just as a quick reminder, Khorne summoning is far from good and will probably have little effect on the game. The summoning systems of Tzeentch and Nurgle are far superior and more of a bonus, while ours overlaps with the existing Blood Tithe abilities. The worst part is, that all excess points are wasted after activation, making the whole system rather clunky and wasteful.

As it stands, in the best case scenario Khorne only got slightly worse but it definitely is not going to get better. Telling yourself that we have to wait for even more information is a bit naive, as we already (and sadly) know all the relevant pieces (we could still wait for narrative play infos eh?). The only way I see Khorne getting to the top tables with AoS2.0, is finding a way to maliciously abuse something. (I'm still having high and desperate hopes for the Blood Factory :D)

All that only matters if you're hoping to get to the top tables in tournaments. 

 

But if tournaments are your thing then you should just pick the strongest army anyway. 

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If the realm artifacts will be matched play legal and are available on top of the faction stuff... there might some interesting considerations.

  • 18" ranged bow, roll 6 dice for each 6+ target receives MW (Shyish)
  • item that provides wearer with ethereal (Shyish)
  • flat 4+ against MWs (Aqshy)
  • cloak with which the wearer cannot be targeted in melee, unless he has already attacked (Ulgu)
  • -3 rend melee weapon (Chamon, Ulgu)
  • aura item that reduces MW damage originating from a wizard on targets within 6" by D3 (Hysh)
  • several +1 hit/wound/damage items scattered over all realms
  • many "deal MW or D3 MWs under 'meh' condition X"
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Started AoS about 6 months ago. Was playing more on the daemon side of things. Playing in a tournament in August, and I have no idea what to do now. It's obvious they want to push Khorne mortals in a big way. Running 2 battalions is tough with the increases now and I want to keep my base of Skarbrand and Insensate Rage. Any thoughts? I don't need to make top table, I just don't want to show up and get crushed.

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On 6/15/2018 at 7:26 AM, Xasz said:
  • Bloodmarked Warband with Skarr (or another weak hero if his ability is changed)

The Warscroll Battalions can't be taken with an 'Understrength unit' per the updated rules on p.13 of the core rules.

A minimal setup would require 16 Bloodreavers in each of the units. Unless you're working with Chaos Marauders?

New points would put that configuration at 1360 with Skarr as the hero using Bloodreavers in the Bloodmarked Warband.

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1 minute ago, TheOtherJosh said:

The Warscroll Battalions can't be taken with an 'Understrength unit' per the updated rules on p.13 of the core rules.

A minimal setup would require 16 Bloodreavers in each of the units. Unless you're working with Chaos Marauders?

New points would put that configuration at 1360 with Skarr as the hero using Bloodreavers in the Bloodmarked Warband.

You never go for the first ability when playing a Bloodmarked setup, it's not mandatory and was always a waste.

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I've just read again the rules for Karanak, and something came to my attention regarding the "call of the hunt" rule.
We are supposed to have Karanak within 8" of a chosen enemy HERO to summon 5 Flesh Hounds. But at the same time, the Flesh Hounds must be set wholy within 8" of Karanak and more than 9" from any enemy.
For me, that means that, even if this HERO is isolated, the rule won't work if Karanak is at close range of this enemy, as my Flesh Hounds are on 2" bases. And in most case, as the HERO won't be on his own, you will only be able to summon the dog if you stay close but far enough.
Am I reading this wrong or is it the way it's written ?

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3 minutes ago, Hystarion said:

I've just read again the rules for Karanak, and something came to my attention regarding the "call of the hunt" rule.
We are supposed to have Karanak within 8" of a chosen enemy HERO to summon 5 Flesh Hounds. But at the same time, the Flesh Hounds must be set wholy within 8" of Karanak and more than 9" from any enemy.
For me, that means that, even if this HERO is isolated, the rule won't work if Karanak is at close range of this enemy, as my Flesh Hounds are on 2" bases. And in most case, as the HERO won't be on his own, you will only be able to summon the dog if you stay close but far enough.
Am I reading this wrong or is it the way it's written ?

They would appear behind him 

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I just saw our new BoK summoning. Two things occured to me. Blood pact lets you summon anywhere outside 9" instead of close to your heroes. But the other sunmoning is in the end of your movement phase. Or more importantly: after the hero phase instead of spending those blood tithe points at the start of the hero phase. So there are a few ways to rack up some more tithe before summoning, which can be a neat trick. Maybe use your blood tithe at the start and then gain some more and summon in the same turn. It's 4 for 10 bloodletters so it should be doable. ?

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22 hours ago, Xasz said:

This seems to be no longer in the game, 1st round is a straight up roll-off and only on a tie the player setting up first decides the order.

This is not the case. Watch the stream (twitch from Wednesday) with Ben from rules team. Him and Martin both confirm that it is exactly the same as it is now. Whoever deploys first chooses. 33min 41 seconds in.

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2 minutes ago, Jaehaerys said:

This is not the case. Watch the stream (twitch from Wednesday) with Ben from rules team. Him and Martin both confirm that it is exactly the same as it is now. Whoever deploys first chooses. 33min 41 seconds in.

Then I seriously hope they FAQ both the English and German versions of that rule. (Especially the German version ... which straight up says that it is a roll off and then first deployed chooses on ties.) Because it’s really confusing. :( 

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1 minute ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Then I seriously hope they FAQ both the English and German versions of that rule. (Especially the German version ... which straight up says that it is a roll off and then first deployed chooses on ties.) Because it’s really confusing. :( 

Haha I'm not disputing that it's not written clearly. I'm certainly with you on that one :)

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MWG said they clarified it as such as well. Will probably be in the first faq.Whoever deploys first will choose. Sadly.

We houseruled it anyway a while back, and the tie-breaker rule for turn priority too. We've already played that way. Works great ?

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Oh man, you know you ****** up, if the "wrong" version is actually better than what you intended...

It is depressing to see that there will be another year of factions with good battalions deciding who is going first by default. I'll never understand why they did not abolish this whole "deploy the whole battalion in one go" part.

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I guess they wanted it as a part of battalion bonuses. Unless playing in tournaments I strongly recommend house ruling it ?

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On 6/15/2018 at 4:50 PM, Choombatta said:
On 6/15/2018 at 4:42 PM, Asamu said:

Allegiance: Khorne
Mighty Lord Of Khorne - General
Bloodsecrator- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Slaughterpriest (100)- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood - Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Skarr Bloodwrath (80)
5 x Blood Warriors (100) - 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
Chaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne -  Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Chaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne -  Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Gore Pilgrims
Bloodmarked Warband

Total: 1970 / 2000 with the updated points

Like this?

You could generate 8 points and summon a Bloodthirster on turn 1 if you kill Skarr within the first 3 blood sacrifices and don't fail any. It's also a 2 drop list, so you'll be able to decide who goes first pretty regularly. This might actually be competitive, as it has a lot of bodies for contesting objectives. Bloodreavers hit reasonably hard with 2-4 attacks apiece (21-41 4+/4+/-1 attacks from a unit of 10 is not something that can be ignored), and you can get a fresh Bloodthirster every turn as long as you can keep the other player away from your priests and warshrine(s).

I'm not too familiar with the everchosen  battallions. Do heros not count at mortal khorne units? Meaning you could run less msu reavers?

Edited by Sehryth7
Words

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4 hours ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

They would appear behind him  

If Karanak is in contact with the quarry, you can't summon. He is on a 2" base, so within 8" and 9" away from the enemy, you don't have enough space to fit wholy some 2" based Flesh Hounds.

Anyway, what i meant is this abiilty will be very situationnal, and you'll probably not be summoning a lot of dogs.

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11 minutes ago, Hystarion said:

If Karanak is in contact with the quarry, you can't summon. He is on a 2" base, so within 8" and 9" away from the enemy, you don't have enough space to fit wholy some 2" based Flesh Hounds.

Anyway, what i meant is this abiilty will be very situationnal, and you'll probably not be summoning a lot of dogs.

There's a battalion (Blood Hunt) that lets you move 2D6" in each hero phase towards a chosen hero that can be led by him. So could get him 8" away in that one quite easily. Otherwise you're moving him in range and hoping for a double turn or your opponent forgetting about him entirely.

 

If you're touching and your bases are 2" then yeah, you're not going to be able to set them up but that was probably the intention.

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3 minutes ago, Gilby said:

There's a battalion (Blood Hunt) that lets you move 2D6" in each hero phase towards a chosen hero that can be led by him. So could get him 8" away in that one quite easily. Otherwise you're moving him in range and hoping for a double turn or your opponent forgetting about him entirely.

 

If you're touching and your bases are 2" then yeah, you're not going to be able to set them up but that was probably the intention.

Has he been changed to 'wholly' within, because thats not the wording im seeing on the warscroll.

If only one model needs to be outside 9 from the enemy, but within 8 of karanak you should be ok (when you factor in his base) even if he is in base to base with the enemy. Unless he has been surrounded.

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51 minutes ago, Sehryth7 said:

 

The 3 slaughter priests and blood secrator + 2x reavers would be part of gore pilgrims, so yes, you would need to run msu witht he other characters to meet the bloodmarked unit count requirement without going over your points limit

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