Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[kozokus]

If your general is the Lord of Khorne, you have enough Battleline to remove some reavers/warriors if you want.

The more i think about this V2 the more i see little reason not to add at least one aspiring Deathbringer.

[Pompe]

1 hour ago, MOMUS said:

I think  keyword here or there is nitpicking, the book needs a rework. With new command points, magic and spell range the BoK are taking a bit of a beating.

The first blood tithe ability is now available to everyone for a free command point every turn.

Blood tithe abilities need to be rejigged on how they work and maybe some swapped out, perhaps other ways to accumulate them and the ruling so you can spend as much or little as you want. 

Anti magic is painfully scare and needs a boost to match the new magic everyone else is getting.

I would like a new focus for the book so it has a place in the new meta of AoS2.

I disagree. I think that BoK really get the long end of the stick so far. 6" guaranteed run and a rerollable charge is exactly what my BL need to hit home everytime combined with Run and Charge from my WoK BT and Stoker. In addition, the 30" dispell is wicked good on the BT and my 3 SP. Especially in combination with Brazen rune and our Blood Tithe ability. Besides there it will be even harder to snipe Secrators and other key Heroes with the -1 to Hit on shooting.

Lastly, my guess is that all that magic we are learning about is going to be closer to the narrative play than the actual tournament matched play that I do. Hence i wont have to worry about it at all. But thats just my guess  

[MOMUS]

52 minutes ago, Pompe said:

I disagree. I think that BoK really get the long end of the stick so far. 6" guaranteed run and a rerollable charge is exactly what my BL need to hit home everytime combined with Run and Charge from my WoK BT and Stoker. In addition, the 30" dispell is wicked good on the BT and my 3 SP. Especially in combination with Brazen rune and our Blood Tithe ability. Besides there it will be even harder to snipe Secrators and other key Heroes with the -1 to Hit on shooting.

Lastly, my guess is that all that magic we are learning about is going to be closer to the narrative play than the actual tournament matched play that I do. Hence i wont have to worry about it at all. But thats just my guess  

But it's a lot of doubling up on abilities we already have and in some cases we already have better. Reroll charge? We already have that a few different ways, command trait is all units within 8 not just one unit within 6. 

I rarely fail to dispel because of range,  most often it's because on the buffs wizards can get that our priests don't have the equivalent of, arcane scenery, legion of sacrament, tzeentch daemon +1 etc.

Im sure the new spells will be in matched play, they've got models and are called 'persistent spells' I think they're going to be 'remains in play' like 8th ed. the turn sequence affects them so perhaps the spell move/effects are resolved in controlling players hero phase.

[Pompe]

Yeah, its a fun few weeks coming up  

[phizzco]

I'm waiting with bated breath so i can decide which models i sell on ebay to make room for new ones.

 

I really hope they remodel the flesh hounds to the new design. Something I've been waiting for for a while.

[Killax]

17 hours ago, MOMUS said:

I think  keyword here or there is nitpicking, the book needs a rework. With new command points, magic and spell range the BoK are taking a bit of a beating.

The first blood tithe ability is now available to everyone for a free command point every turn.

Blood tithe abilities need to be rejigged on how they work and maybe some swapped out, perhaps other ways to accumulate them and the ruling so you can spend as much or little as you want. 

Anti magic is painfully scare and needs a boost to match the new magic everyone else is getting.

I would like a new focus for the book so it has a place in the new meta of AoS2.

If you play and understand Blades of Khorne, Maggotkin of Nurgle, Slaves to Darkness and Desciples of Tzeentch you will understand that Keywords are never a nitpick. In fact it is directly contributing to still representing Daemons of Khorne and Bloodbound as two seperate armies. Blades of Khorne armies in the technical sence still don't really mean anything. As a Bloodthirster can't command Juggernauts for some reason and while a Chaos Lord from Slaves to Darkness on a Daemonic Steed can use all Artefacts a Khorne Lord on (Daemonic) Juggernaut cannot. It's incorrect from a lore and narrative perspective and straight up dumb from a game design point perspective. 

I completely dissagree with you that because of CP Blades of Khorne/Blood Tithe is getting a beating. As 40K's CP system being a prime example, the fact that we have CP to work with and BT actually means we can save either to our advantage. The addition of CP is a massive boost to the Blood Tithe system because the points are akin for us so far.
As with 40K expect CP use to be more than just Command Ability usage. I expect re-rolls there and this also applies for knowing who starts the turn. Essential to Khorne's melee combats.

Lastly I don't think we have too little anti-magic. Instead we have sufficient, those who want more can now strongly consider the use of Fleshhounds. I think that the one change we will see soon is that more BoK armies will pack a unit. Both for character protection reasons and anti magic in one package.

[Riavan]

7 hours ago, phizzco said:

I'm waiting with bated breath so i can decide which models i sell on ebay to make room for new ones.

 

I really hope they remodel the flesh hounds to the new design. Something I've been waiting for for a while.

Wait, why do you think there will be new khorne models?

[TheAdequateWargamer]

8 minutes ago, Riavan said:

Wait, why do you think there will be new khorne models?

One can hope..

* new Primaris Bloodletters *

Let the slaughter begin

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

..but yeah, wish they would do something with flesh hounds. Looking at them currently and finding it hard to justify the ££ for 5 models. Esp when I really want 10/15 of them, and possibly a skull taker too.

Before mlok/bloodsecrator where released separately I recall there where a couple of ebay sellers who looked like they where just cutting up the starter box sprues and selling units individually. That defo still occurs, but at the time they had buy it now items with a ton of stock. Really wishing  i had bought a fist full of mlok models for the hound. He's now floating around £8 + 2.80 postage.

Oh well.

[Killax]

30 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

One can hope..

* new Primaris Bloodletters *

Let the slaughter begin

I think that if it's going to happen it will be somewhere during 2019, first quarter, together with a Warhammer 40.000 World Eater update. Which isn't too unlikely to eventually occur because I still think the Slaanesh update is set for the end of this year and this then would leave Khorne in 40K for an update.

20 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

..but yeah, wish they would do something with flesh hounds. Looking at them currently and finding it hard to justify the ££ for 5 models. Esp when I really want 10/15 of them, and possibly a skull taker too.

Before mlok/bloodsecrator where released separately I recall there where a couple of ebay sellers who looked like they where just cutting up the starter box sprues and selling units individually. That defo still occurs, but at the time they had buy it now items with a ton of stock. Really wishing  i had bought a fist full of mlok models for the hound. He's now floating around £8 + 2.80 postage.

Oh well.

As discussed months ago I also believe that the plastic Fleshhound sculpt, single Khorgorath sculpt and some World Eaters are allready finished in terms of sculpts and such. But we also know that the delay for Games Workshop continues in terms of planned releases they had this year and late last year. I think they are catching up but also understand releasing it ALL at the same time would hurt their own pocket. Due to flooding the market with too much chaos at the same time  

But I do think that getting a unit of Fleshhounds or converting a unit is a really smart plan. I think I will still need to pick up a unit of the finecast. Or perhaps figure something out with spair Fleshhounds from the starter set... Though going into that mono-pose for a full unit isn't great either...

If I had to make a guess as to what will happen for the World Eater/Khorne update in 40K and how it will impact us I'd expect things to occur as followed:

- Khorne (40K/AoS) gets two regular Daemonic Heralds, in plastic, on foot.
Likely one or two who emulate other aspects of Khorne. Funny enough I think we will see a blacksmith/engineer (not too much unlike what the Skullgrinder is) and likey a model who allows you to sacrifice others for boosts. The suggestion of these has allready been given in 40K, as we know that Bloodletters can create Daemonic Engines and Skullcannons and likewise we allready have a 'Kinslayer' who specifally seems to boosts hordes of Khorne Daemons.
- Khorne (40K/AoS) gets the long awaited plastic Fleshhounds, likely with a plastic Karanak to match.
- Khorne (40K/AoS) gets the long awaited single plastic Khorgorath, which I believe in 40K will count as a Daemon. Even AoS lore more or less confirms this as the Khorgorath are created in the realm of Khorne and as such could easily count as a Daemon/Khorne spawn etc. 

In addition to that I think World Eaters would then be pretty much up for compairable updates as seen with Death Guard. Here the steps can be easily predicted also because I think that if Games Workshop will do it they will follow the spideresque and scorpions seen in Forgeworld's World Eater armory. Which would be cool in my opinion. Blood Slaughterers and Brass Scorpions are an easy fit.  Next to updated World Eater models which then allow for GW to make several kits out of that basic sculpt. Likely alongside World Eater HQ characters that are a reflection of our own Age of Sigmar heroes. Which is neat as it fits. Again tons of lore and suggestion to draw from.

[Xasz]

18 hours ago, Pompe said:

I disagree. I think that BoK really get the long end of the stick so far. 6" guaranteed run and a rerollable charge is exactly what my BL need to hit home everytime combined with Run and Charge from my WoK BT and Stoker. In addition, the 30" dispell is wicked good on the BT and my 3 SP. Especially in combination with Brazen rune and our Blood Tithe ability. Besides there it will be even harder to snipe Secrators and other key Heroes with the -1 to Hit on shooting.

Lastly, my guess is that all that magic we are learning about is going to be closer to the narrative play than the actual tournament matched play that I do. Hence i wont have to worry about it at all. But thats just my guess  

Bold statement.

There are still too many things unknown to make any kind of call. 

• Chargers going first is still only a rumour
• We don't know if realm artifacts and spells are usable in matched play
• We pretty much know nothing about the permanent spell expansion
• We have no info about the new scenarios
• It is unclear if prayers will fall under the rule of one
• Bronzed flesh and blood boil might get the arcane bolt and mystic shield treatment
• The whole command point minigame might extend itself into artifacts n stuff
• Summoning and potential restrictions 
• There might be no keyword fix for Khorne
• ... not to mention point shifts within BoK and AoS as a whole

There are certainly things that might go our way, especially if the whole chargers strike first rumour comes to pass. Nevertheless I remain skeptic due to the sheer lack of information and upcoming focus on spells and casters.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

As discussed months ago I also believe that the plastic Fleshhound sculpt, single Khorgorath sculpt and some World Eaters are allready finished in terms of sculpts and such.

I seem to recall, but I was possibly in a 'mortals only' point of my life back then and not paying that much attention. Thinking aos 2 might mean drawing a line under that and the age of daemons will begin for me.

That being said, if magic is just being handed out to everyone willy nilly brass stampede would be fun to run. '50% of the time i'm immune to your magic all the time!'

With gw tomorrow is always a mystery until it actually happens. but ill Ill just throw it out there that on twitter before DoK dropped there where a lot of people painting up witch aelves. Recently ive been seeing a lot of skarbrand. Probably just a total coincidence, but fingers crossed for a fun new summoning mechanic that works with khorne stuff.

[Killax]

3 hours ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

I seem to recall, but I was possibly in a 'mortals only' point of my life back then and not paying that much attention. Thinking aos 2 might mean drawing a line under that and the age of daemons will begin for me.

That being said, if magic is just being handed out to everyone willy nilly brass stampede would be fun to run. '50% of the time i'm immune to your magic all the time!'

With gw tomorrow is always a mystery until it actually happens. but ill Ill just throw it out there that on twitter before DoK dropped there where a lot of people painting up witch aelves. Recently ive been seeing a lot of skarbrand. Probably just a total coincidence, but fingers crossed for a fun new summoning mechanic that works with khorne stuff.

If anything I'd still say mix it up  Even with the new edition and even with all the Command abilities we have in mind. The prime reason for me to still advice this route is because I feel that the Aspiring Deathbringer can make it's inpact as a semi-Bloodsecrator in this new edition if he will remain cheap enough. While Bloodletters don't benifit from this it pays to have a small/medium unit soon, as to assist in protecting characters. Bloodletters are too expensive for this. Fleshhounds are excellent for a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut but you don't want to slow Fleshhounds down with a footslogger.

Immunity to magic and magic defences will generally spell good things, of that I am sure.

What I don't think is that GW will allow you/us to pick everything from any place. What I believe will be the case is to basically choose the realm you are from on top of the Allegiance. This then likely leads to 6 additional Spells to choose from and 6 Artefacts who all match the vibe of that realm.

At first I'd expect those realms to be bound to certain Grand Allegiances but I now don't believe this will be the case as it's more inspirational to have any player basically choose whatever realm they want to be from. This then can also be reflected in the army's theme. In general the whole aim of AoS2 seems to be to thickn the lore, I am very happy with that. It's what made WFB cool also.

[Pathies]

So looks like free summoning for BoK after all!  but it also looks like the summoning mechanic with blood tithe will be re worked. What do you guys expect to see? I’m wondering if it ends up more like the daemonkin bloodtithe system where the summons scale up more

[Stealth_Hobo]

Speaking as a  lazy person, I don't think it's free if it takes a lot of effort.

[Killax]

If GW isn't going to put a cap on that then we all might aswell start playing Desciples of Tzeentch again, just have your Lord of Change summon a Lord of Change to summon a Lord of Change etc. 

I'm interested in what the plan is, the 40K door just went open a little  

[Lazaris]

1 hour ago, Pathies said:

So looks like free summoning for BoK after all!  but it also looks like the summoning mechanic with blood tithe will be re worked. What do you guys expect to see? I’m wondering if it ends up more like the daemonkin bloodtithe system where the summons scale up more

What makes you think that the blood tithe system will be reworked?

I'm a bit worried that the designers will think the system is already fine as is.

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, Lazaris said:

I'm a bit worried that the designers will think the system is already fine as is.

I'm a bit worried period  But we shall see.
 

[Pompe]

9 minutes ago, Killax said:

I'm a bit worried period  But we shall see.
 

Same here. But I am still hoping that they will provide the clarification that all the spells, the free summoning etc. is up for grabs if you want, BUT in matched play summoning costs points and spells etc are only usable if both players agree upon it.

[Pathies]

11 minutes ago, Lazaris said:

What makes you think that the blood tithe system will be reworked?

More of hunch/assumption that gw wouldn’t want to leave all summoning to 8 blood tithe points since most would simply use it to summon bloodthirsters, and if they were going to seperate the summonable units within the blood tithe chart, then they would have to find other places to put those new summons! I guess re-working the system isn’t really what I meant to say; more that they might be changing the chart to accomadate more scaled summoning similar to the Khorne daemonkin book from 40k

[Xasz]

I doubt they'll fiddle around with the Blood Tithe table, except changing the first option to not consume a command point.

 

[Pathies]

Yeah, I agree that they will more than likely leave the table largely as is, but I’m really just more curious about whether they plan to provide a seperate summoning mechanic similar to contagion points, or try to work smaller units into summoning some other way

[JonnyTheKing]

I really do hope the summoning isn't as straight forward as being completely free as I can see it making a lot of unfunny matches. Anyway, time for another theory craft! If the summoning is how it seems from the preview and getting to 8  Blood Tithe will allow for a free unit, then this is how i see Khorne being played going forward:

Gore Pilgrims 

3 Slaughter priests - 1 or 2 of them sacrificing models each turn for Blood Tithe points 

perhaps some small units of cheap stuff such as 10 man Marauder units purely existing to die and help build Blood Tithe points

- With this, by turn 2 or 3 depending how bloody the battle is, a free Skarrbrand or BT will be summoned

- Could see this list then supported by other daemons such as Bloodletters perhaps

 

[Xasz]

37 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

I really do hope the summoning isn't as straight forward as being completely free as I can see it making a lot of unfunny matches. Anyway, time for another theory craft! If the summoning is how it seems from the preview and getting to 8  Blood Tithe will allow for a free unit, then this is how i see Khorne being played going forward:

Gore Pilgrims 

3 Slaughter priests - 1 or 2 of them sacrificing models each turn for Blood Tithe points 

perhaps some small units of cheap stuff such as 10 man Marauder units purely existing to die and help build Blood Tithe points

- With this, by turn 2 or 3 depending how bloody the battle is, a free Skarrbrand or BT will be summoned

- Could see this list then supported by other daemons such as Bloodletters perhaps

 

Gotta go bigger! 

12er unit of Bloodcrushers or Archaon (although, I expect named characters to be not summonable somehow)

[phizzco]

Im excited. Definitely not going to buy anything new for awhile though.