Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[ledha]

It's interesting, and sad, to see that magore's fiends have a worse gorefist rules that the blood warriors (need a 4+ save instead of a sucessful save)

[JonnyTheKing]

4 hours ago, Killax said:

I wouldn't say it is. As Xasz also said, Tzeentch is way more popular at the tournament scene and due to recent updates I think Nurgle has taken over the casual popularity of Chaos too. Which was the case in 40K allready.

Not to get salty but the prime reason I think Khorne is completely off the agenda is the lack of a Khorgorath kit 3 years in, the Errata/FAQ only adressing potential issues to non-Khorne players and further complete lack of character development, in particular Khul. Who did recieve some books but nothing of that comes remotely close to what he does in-game.

The Shadespire unit is funny but I was hoping for 80 points for what are 3 Blood Warriors and 1 Fleshhound. Now that unit is 120 I see no use for it.

Here's hoping that we see one once the new starter set comes out and replaces the current one, but I don't see it

 

i could see it happening once World Eaters are released in 40K as I could easily see the Khorgorath getting ported over as it's a cool model with cool rules and would fit World Eaters. I think we can expect a few new toys when that day comes though, most likely a couple new heralds like Nurgle has gained

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

It's interesting, and sad, to see that magore's fiends have a worse gorefist rules that the blood warriors (need a 4+ save instead of a sucessful save)

Yes, what's up with that? The should fix the warscroll asap or change it for the normal Blood Warriors also to 4+. 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

21 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Yes, what's up with that? The should fix the warscroll asap or change it for the normal Blood Warriors also to 4+. 

Makes no difference.

A 4+ is still a successful save after modifiers.

 

[Tonhel]

2 hours ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

Makes no difference.

A 4+ is still a successful save after modifiers.

 

I interpret it differently.. For the Magore's fiends it works only on a 4+ save, thus if the enemy has a attack with rend -1. You need to roll a 5+, thus the Gorefist ability can't be used. While for the regular Blood Warriors even if they need to roll a 6+ save, the Gorefist ability still kicks in.

 

 

[Xasz]

3 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

i could see it happening once World Eaters are released in 40K as I could easily see the Khorgorath getting ported over as it's a cool model with cool rules and would fit World Eaters. I think we can expect a few new toys when that day comes though, most likely a couple new heralds like Nurgle has gained

WE are far, far away...

9 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

I interpret it differently.. For the Magore's fiends it works only on a 4+ save, thus if the enemy has a attack with rend -1. You need to roll a 5+, thus the Gorefist ability can't be used. While for the regular Blood Warriors even if they need to roll a 6+ save, the Gorefist ability still kicks in.

The wording is different, but they work exactly the same.

Taking your example, you make 4 armour saves against -1 rend attacks. You rolled 1, 3, 4, 5, the first two dice are obviously fails. The 4 is not enough after the modifier from the rend is applied. Now the 5... -1 from rend = 4 therefore you can roll Gorefists.

The important part is in brackets: ...after modifiers are applied. There is nothing that indicates that you need natural 4s.

[Tonhel]

I still read it as your armour save need to be 4+ after modifiers are applied so when it becomes 5+ you can't use the Gorefist ability, while with the Blood warriors a succesful save is the only thing that matters.

I will auto include this warband in my smallish Khorne army, but it boggles my mind that GW couldn't just copy the text from the Blood warriors warscroll.. .

[Xasz]

47 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

I still read it as your armour save need to be 4+ after modifiers are applied so when it becomes 5+ you can't use the Gorefist ability, while with the Blood warriors a succesful save is the only thing that matters.

I will auto include this warband in my smallish Khorne army, but it boggles my mind that GW couldn't just copy the text from the Blood warriors warscroll.. .

Could you illustrate this with an example?

I've spent pretty much my whole groceries run figuring out how you arrived at this exact interpretation (unsuccessful I might add) and at least one of us is wrong. 

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Xasz said:

Could you illustrate this with an example?

I've spent pretty much my whole groceries run figuring out how you arrived at this exact interpretation (unsuccessful I might add) and at least one of us is wrong. 

Well, I certainly hope that I am wrong.

Gorefists:

"If the save roll for an attack that targets a unit with any Gorefists is 4+ (after re-rolls and modifiers are applied)"

I read this that when the save roll that the Blood warrior has to take is a 4+ than the Gorefist ability kicks in, but it also state s after re-rolls and modifiers are applied. So if a rend  1 modifier is applied than the save becomes a 5+ thus cancelling out the first part of the sentence that the save has to be a 4+.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

10 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Well, I certainly hope that I am wrong.

Gorefists:

"If the save roll for an attack that targets a unit with any Gorefists is 4+ (after re-rolls and modifiers are applied)"

I read this that when the save roll that the Blood warrior has to take is a 4+ than the Gorefist ability kicks in, but it also state s after re-rolls and modifiers are applied. So if a rend  1 modifier is applied than the save becomes a 5+ thus cancelling out the first part of the sentence that the save has to be a 4+.

Technically its still a 4+ you are rolling for. Its just you need to get a 5 on the dice if youre being hit with -1 rend

[LLV]

2 hours ago, Xasz said:

WE are far, far away...

 

Xmas isn’t THAT far away....

 

[Xasz]

25 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Well, I certainly hope that I am wrong.

Gorefists:

"If the save roll for an attack that targets a unit with any Gorefists is 4+ (after re-rolls and modifiers are applied)"

I read this that when the save roll that the Blood warrior has to take is a 4+ than the Gorefist ability kicks in, but it also state s after re-rolls and modifiers are applied. So if a rend  1 modifier is applied than the save becomes a 5+ thus cancelling out the first part of the sentence that the save has to be a 4+.

A modifier does not change the requirements for abilities or your save directly, it changes the numbers that your dice show. 

Again, you rolled 1, 3, 4, 5 (natural result) and the opponent is clobbering you with a rend 1 mace. This turns your roll into a modified result of 0, 2, 3 and 4. The first three are not within the range of 4 or more but the modified 4 or natural 5 is just fine.

The "my save got worse" thingy is just an abstraction.

[Tonhel]

Good for me! Although I still have my doubts about it. ;-) I wonder why they thought to change the wording for it.

[Xasz]

4 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Although I still have my doubts about it.

About what?

Both wordings are equivalent in meaning. 

At least under the current FAQ and GHB.

[chord]

Very tempted to buy the warband just for riptooth.  

[gariont]

Hi guys 

Trying to build a 2000 point list from the models that I have, any thoughts on how this looks? The plan would be for the daemon prince to run with the bloodcrushers to be the locus for them.
Allegiance: Chaos
Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
- Command Trait : Immense Power
- Artefact : The Crimson Crown
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
Units
6 x Bloodcrushers (320)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
- Gore Drenched Icon
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
-Reaver Blades
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
-Goreaxes
- 1 x Goreglaives
Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (180)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Leaders: 6/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 2/4 Artillery: 0/4
Wounds: 138

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Dont forget you can take a second artefact because you have a battalion.

[gariont]

13 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

Dont forget you can take a second artefact because you have a battalion.

Oh yeah, thanks  Any recommendations?

[phizzco]

1 hour ago, chord said:

Very tempted to buy the warband just for riptooth.  

Same. only reason im buying it is for a cheap magic denial 

 

[JetBlackSVW]

Hello!

I am new to playing a tabletop game and split the starter set with a friend, he got the SE and I choose Khorne.

So far this game is tons of fun, but I have a really hard time against his Stormcast, I haven't won a game against him.

I have only the units from the starter set but he bought already additional units.

Our armies below:

Allegiance: Chaos
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Bloodsecrator (120)
Bloodstoker (80)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Total: 660 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
 

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
Lord-Relictor (80)
Neave Blacktalon (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (160)

Total: 660 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 42
 

The games are played with matched play rules and end when one army is totally wiped out. We only use the battle traits but not the command traits and artefacts as we are still learning the game.

One of the problems I face are his multiple ranged attacks, I am forced to charge him because I have a melee focused army and he refuses to charge himself. Before I get in melee range he then can easily pick off some Bloodreavers and weaken my Khorgorath with his Raptors. Under these circumstances I find it sometimes hard to keep my Bloodsecrator in the buff range.

Another problem is that my Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors can't kill his Liberators fast enough, he can stall the game to get a good amount of ranged attacks in. Unfortunately the Bloodreavers in starter set didn't had the option for Meatripper Axes. On top of that his Neave Blacktalon can come down from the Celestial Realm and pick off one of my heroes in the backline with her double damage to heroes.

Can I change my tactics to make this matchup more winnable or is his army just better? I will expand my army in next few weeks with the Khorne Bloodbound Start Collecting Set and maybe Valkia the Bloody as a fast, mobile unit to play 1000 points games.

 

[Kharnige]

I recently finished my 2000pts list of the following but suffered a crushing defeat and would welcome feedback. The list felt pretty good but is this a bad match up or was this down to my poor decision-making/deployment. Either way, I need to figure this out for next time.

WoK Bloodthirster with Mark of Slayer and Devastating Blow
(General)

Murderhost:
30 Bloodletters, Gore-drenched Icon
30 Bloodletters, Gore-drenched Icon
5 Flesh Hounds
Skulltaker with Armour of Scorn

Gore Pilgrims:
1 Bloodsecrator with Brazen Rune
2 Slaughterpriests with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (Killing Frenzy)
30 Bloodreavers with Reaver Blades
5 Blood Warriors

I was against:

2 Huskards on Thundertusks, 1 with Everwinter's Master and Pelt of Charngar
2 Thundertusk Beastriders
3 Yhetees
Allies: 1 Butcher with Cauldron, 6 Ogors

Deployment was, roughly:

* Yhetees                                                               * 4 Thundertusks and Butcher                                                   * 6 Ogors
* 5 BW                                  WoK BT, 30 BL * ST, 5 FH, 30 BL                                        SP            BS       SP     *30 BR

Scorched Earth scenario, decent amount of scenery but no rules that impacted the game.

I got first turn, and Murderhost'd for 8. Got the first lot of 30 Bloodletters with WoK's command into combat, which took down half of his General's wounds. Bloodthirster, 30 BL and Flesh Hounds all failed charges. He healed his General back up to full health (good rolls for heal + Butcher) then came the dirty snowballs. Took out my Bloodthirster quickly and weakened my 30 BL in combat. By the time we rolled for Turn 2, I had lost my Bloodthirster and pretty much all of my first 30 BL and a few BW. The other 30 BL with 5 FH went for the nearest Thundertusk and took him out to then head for the Butcher. Slaughterpriest moved up toward Butcher slowly before being snowballed.

By the end of his Turn 2, I had only taken out a Huskard on Thundertusk despite having lost over half my army. Turn 3 and some bad dirty snowball rolls led to me hanging on and contesting the objective again but the battle was lost.

This was my first run with Murderhost and Gore Pilgrims. I think it would work well against previous armies I have faced (Stormcast, Arkhan Death) but this just seemed like an uphill battle.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I have played a handful of games with Khorne and had been building up to this list.

[Pompe]

11 minutes ago, Kharnige said:

I recently finished my 2000pts list of the following but suffered a crushing defeat and would welcome feedback. The list felt pretty good but is this a bad match up or was this down to my poor decision-making/deployment. Either way, I need to figure this out for next time.

WoK Bloodthirster with Mark of Slayer and Devastating Blow
(General)

Murderhost:
30 Bloodletters, Gore-drenched Icon
30 Bloodletters, Gore-drenched Icon
5 Flesh Hounds
Skulltaker with Armour of Scorn

Gore Pilgrims:
1 Bloodsecrator with Brazen Rune
2 Slaughterpriests with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (Killing Frenzy)
30 Bloodreavers with Reaver Blades
5 Blood Warriors

You cant give artefacts to named chars so that Armour of Scorn must be switched to something else. Also I would switch Mark of the Slayer to Crimson Crown for the WoK BT as it synergizes extremely well with your Bloodletters who have been buffed with Killing Frenzy. I run Deathdealer on my WoK BT as I only have 30 Bloodletters, that makes him a werckingball and has been punching out close to 30 wounds in one round of combat with the D3+2 dmg. An option is to move the Brazen Rune to one of the SP:s and give the Blood-forged Armour to the secrator for additional protection.

Furthermore, when the opposition has healing armies (or the ability to ressurect massive amounts of models like Death) you need to make sure to delete units rather than wounding several of them. It is better to overcomitting than slightly undercomitting. 

[Pompe]

48 minutes ago, JetBlackSVW said:

Hello!

I am new to playing a tabletop game and split the starter set with a friend, he got the SE and I choose Khorne.

So far this game is tons of fun, but I have a really hard time against his Stormcast, I haven't won a game against him.

I have only the units from the starter set but he bought already additional units.

Our armies below:

Allegiance: Chaos
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Bloodsecrator (120)
Bloodstoker (80)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Total: 660 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54
 

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
Lord-Relictor (80)
Neave Blacktalon (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (160)

Total: 660 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 42
 

The games are played with matched play rules and end when one army is totally wiped out. We only use the battle traits but not the command traits and artefacts as we are still learning the game.

One of the problems I face are his multiple ranged attacks, I am forced to charge him because I have a melee focused army and he refuses to charge himself. Before I get in melee range he then can easily pick off some Bloodreavers and weaken my Khorgorath with his Raptors. Under these circumstances I find it sometimes hard to keep my Bloodsecrator in the buff range.

Another problem is that my Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors can't kill his Liberators fast enough, he can stall the game to get a good amount of ranged attacks in. Unfortunately the Bloodreavers in starter set didn't had the option for Meatripper Axes. On top of that his Neave Blacktalon can come down from the Celestial Realm and pick off one of my heroes in the backline with her double damage to heroes.

Can I change my tactics to make this matchup more winnable or is his army just better? I will expand my army in next few weeks with the Khorne Bloodbound Start Collecting Set and maybe Valkia the Bloody as a fast, mobile unit to play 1000 points games.

It seems to me that your opponent has bought models to adjust his army a bit to counter the starter box Hence, you will have a tough time facing him. Dont split the reavers into two units and keep them close to the secrator. That way you can use inspiring precense on them whilst running both them and the secrator up the field. If you feel that you need a bit of extra speed use the Talisman of Burning Blood and combine it with Violent Urgency as command trait. If not, give the MLoK Gorecleaver and enjoy the fun. 

[kenshin620]

I'm sure this has been asked multiple times but the Shadespire unique units still for all intents and purposes count as a "normal" unit other than being one per army right? So they can fill in "MORTAL OR BLOODBOUND" requirements for Battalions? Though the Fleshhound is a bit of an odd wedge for this.Have to take it but it won't be able to benefit from the battalion.

[Xasz]

22 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I'm sure this has been asked multiple times but the Shadespire unique units still for all intents and purposes count as a "normal" unit other than being one per army right? So they can fill in "MORTAL OR BLOODBOUND" requirements for Battalions? Though the Fleshhound is a bit of an odd wedge for this.Have to take it but it won't be able to benefit from the battalion.

If they have the appropriate keywords on their warscroll, sure. (which they usually have)

Concerning Magore's band, the 3 Blood Warriors and the Flesh hound are separate units. The latter obviously does neither have the Mortal nor Bloodbound keyword.