Basic unit redesigns; unlikely or inevitable?

[Asbestress]

Inspired by coming to the realisation after working with Steelhelms that the Gloomspite Stabbas/Shootas are pretty not good (mainly in sprue layout and ease of assembly). I'd much rather assemble a 100 Steelhelms than a 100 grots.

By now, I think AoS has become quite well established in terms of unique miniatures, with some notable exceptions in the form of the most basic of units for several factions. These include:

• Daughters of Khaine (Witch Aelves/Sisters of Slaughter)
• Sylvaneth (Dryads)
• Skaven (Clanrats)
• S2D (Marauders)
• GSG (Grots)

And honorable mentions (due to having been updated recently) for:

• Seraphon (Skinks)
• FEC (Ghouls)

And factions which used to rely on "outdated" basic infantry:

• Cities of Sigmar (Freeguild Guard)
• Soulblight Gravelords (Skeletons/Zombies)
• Ironjawz ('Ardboyz)

And we of course have Bonesplitterz, Ogors, Spiderfang and Beasts with little to no new minis.

Now for what I'm thinking; will we see updates for these basic infantry for factions who have already had big refreshes?
Based on Ironjaws, and hopefully S2D with new marauders, there seems to be some hope, although I still think skinks and ghouls should have been updated (more for assembly/modelling practicality than design maybe).

So what do we think? New high(er) resolution Clanrats for Skaven? Actually non-static posed grots for Gitz? Or will we be relying on these kits for a while longer?

[Vasshpit]

Concerning basic moon grots I think we'll see a new kit similar to that last underworlds band. I think it would be cool to see that little mushroom blow dart fella replace the shootas and with a melee option as well. Then send that old kit over to TOW. 

[Asbestress]

8 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Concerning basic moon grots I think we'll see a new kit similar to that last underworlds band. I think it would be cool to see that little mushroom blow dart fella replace the shootas and with a melee option as well. Then send that old kit over to TOW. 

They did say the Night Goblins TOW release would come at a later date... Probably looking too much into that tho.

[Hollow]

It's kind of hard to predict as I think refreshes of kits like these are far more driven by sales and the lifecycle of moulds rather than pure creative desire. With the kits being relatively old, most (if not all of the ones you mentioned) will be in pure profit mode, (having payed off their R+D). 

Also, most of the kits you mentioned are actually pretty decent and will be around for many more years to come. I think the Daughters of Khaine (Witch Aelves/Sisters of Slaughter), Sylvaneth (Dryads),Seraphon (Skinks) and FEC (Ghouls) are perfectly decent kits and would much rather see resources for those factions put into something new or towards other updates (Updated Saurus Guard for example). The Skaven (Clanrats), S2D (Marauders) and GSG (Grots) on the other hand are really showing their age and I hope for updated kits. 

Edited January 28 by Hollow

[Dindi]

I think those all getting new kits are inevitable, the question is how long do you want to wait?

To give some 40k comparisons I think it took over 15 years to get new Cadian guardsmen sculpts, and we've just seen the kroot get new sculpts after what 20 years?

 

That said do minis like witch elves/sisters of slaughter need new minis anytime soon, they aren't that old, compared to the poor skaven, surely any DoK release would be best served as a new unit.

Also to swing back to the Cadian comparison, modern sculpts can be a big double edge sword for horde armies. How detailed do basic gobs need to be?

[Asbestress]

Just now, Dindi said:

I think those all getting new kits are inevitable, the question is how long do you want to wait?

To give some 40k comparisons I think it took over 15 years to get new Cadian guardsmen sculpts, and we've just seen the kroot get new sculpts after what 20 years?

 

That said do minis like witch elves/sisters of slaughter need new minis anytime soon, they aren't that old, compared to the poor skaven, surely any DoK release would be best served as a new unit.

Also to swing back to the Cadian comparison, modern sculpts can be a big double edge sword for horde armies. How detailed do basic gobs need to be?

Having worked with both the basic kit and Zarbag's Gitz, I'd say that the design is fine, it just needs a little polish. Give them some actually interesting poses, "redesign" the shields from basic round ones with moon symbols to full on yellow metal moon shaped ones, give them a few knick-knacks on their belts, maybe even have some of them have a tiny bit of armour in the style of the Looncourt, and then have some more wacky options for the command (helmet for boss, little cave monsters for basing, etc.). And maybe give the shootas some mushroom-tipped arrows.

[Dindi]

Yeah that sounds like a good way of going about it without going to crazy, especially the moon helmets, really like that bit of visual design.

Also just looked at them now and Id forgotten how awkward the gobs poses are, especially the shootas!

[Nighthaunt Noob]

3 hours ago, Dindi said:

I think those all getting new kits are inevitable, the question is how long do you want to wait?

To give some 40k comparisons I think it took over 15 years to get new Cadian guardsmen sculpts, and we've just seen the kroot get new sculpts after what 20 years?

 

That said do minis like witch elves/sisters of slaughter need new minis anytime soon, they aren't that old, compared to the poor skaven, surely any DoK release would be best served as a new unit.

Also to swing back to the Cadian comparison, modern sculpts can be a big double edge sword for horde armies. How detailed do basic gobs need to be?

Skaven definitely need the update more don't get me wrong (and anyways we know it is coming) but I think despite the age the witch elves certainly could use an update too. I think age of kits shows more quickly in human models than others. Even some of the DoK that came out 6 years ago are showing their age a bit compared to newer sculpts.

Edited January 28 by Nighthaunt Noob

[Davariel]

It's interesting to hear talk about updating the Witches/SoS, I'd have said they fit seamlessly with the rest of the DoK. Perhaps the biggest flaw of the kit is that it only makes five specific poses... but that's true of many modern kits too.

Dryads are an interesting case (and one dear to my heart) as the models are actually really old, but they've aged pretty well and still fit the overall Sylvaneth style. I'd definitely expect a new kit at some point, but wouldn't call them a high priority compared to stuff like phasing out resin, replacing the marauders and 25 year old Skaven sculpts, and so on.

[MitGas]

I think that it's not something you can count on in most cases - an update of an existing kit is still the exception for the most part, despite some cool upgrades in recent times. We'll definitely get them one day but it might still be years before any particular unit gets said update. The bad looking ones will probably go first.

Not that I find them bad but Grots would in theory qualify for an update as many people collect them.

[Public Universal Duardin]

Definitely yes...eventually. In the relative short term, I'd personally put my money on a total Skaven refresh first. The rest, well, surely they'll be refreshed one day, but it could be years (or in worst case, decades, considering how old some Skaven sculpts currently are) until that.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

As an aside, I rather gave up hope that the Chaos Marauders were ever going to be redesigned, and bought a bunch of them a while back. They're not altogether dreadful if you find a suitable replacement for the absurd cartoonish heads! I used Chaos Warrior heads, and am quite happy with how they look. They remind me of the old metal Marauders, will the all-enclosing helmets. 

The Marauder Horsemen are still... acceptable. The heads are good, and I like the style of their horses. 

But, yes, they're both surely prime contenders to get a new kit. Surely. Unless they're being abandoned altogether. 

[Gitzdee]

I really hope all our beloved armies are getting refreshes at some point. And it seems like the 2 i like most are the still a mystery (bonesplitterz, spiderfang). 

I would also guy new stabbas/shootas in a heartbeat. At this point i dont want to buy into decades old models that look out of place compared to the new goodness GW continues to release. I feel like i am not the only one who feels this way. I also think that it forces GWs hand to some extend to update these units or at least the popular onces like the gitz.

[Grunbag]

At this point I would like they focus on resculpt all old unit , before releasing a new army . And I’m waiting for spiderfang and ogor particularly 

[Kitsumy]

well i love actual skinks, and they are really cheap money wise.

but after assembling lots of then u are right on easy to assemble bit, yes they are the easiest to build model i have seen if u dont clean moldlanes etc.

but.... if u need to clean everything like me, they are the worst model i have built. the weapon arm bit holding the bolttrower is miscasted always, like some chinesse recast i have seen, with every half of mold moved like, every half of the bit is 2 milimeters or so off, so i have to cut down every part to try to make them as 1 seamless piece, worst part is having to resculp every finger on the hand holding the weapon, weird enough it is only on the boltrower bit, the other weapons arms options are waaay better, same problem but only like 0,5 milimeters or so

 

still dont think seraphon need new resculp, maybe a new skink priest,  some big saurus hero( right now we only have the carno kit one) and a kroxigor hero. but there are other armys with more needed reworks ( most of them haha)

[DinoJon]

Don't forget Saurus Guard/Temple Guard for Seraphon. It is really awkward having the new Saurus Warriors next to the older Saurus Guard, really looks they're from different armies at this point. Outside of Warcry I don't see Seraphon getting a resculpted unit in the next couple of years though. 

From the list you made I think Clanrats are a given with the supposed 4th Edition launch. 

Also don't forget both Gors and Ungors for Beasts of Chaos they are all miserable to put together

[EntMan]

I love the Dryads. Fun to build and paint and forgiving of my bad technique in both.

As others have pointed out they fit in well with the whole range including the newer stuff.

I don't think they'll be replaced as such, my only concern is they may be dropped from AoS Sylvaneth to move to TOW Wood elves.

[Jator]

1 hour ago, EntMan said:

I love the Dryads. Fun to build and paint and forgiving of my bad technique in both.

As others have pointed out they fit in well with the whole range including the newer stuff.

I don't think they'll be replaced as such, my only concern is they may be dropped from AoS Sylvaneth to move to TOW Wood elves.

I don't think you should worry about that. Older miniatures will probably end in ToW as they're renewed, but they're not going to update any unit with the specific purpose of leaving the old one for ToW.

[Magnusaur]

They better give me some new Skinks!

In all seriousness, it's hard to say. In the grand scheme of things, as others have said, everything's a question of when rather than if.

In an ideal world I would want everything to get updated eventually, even the stuff that came out shortly before The End Times. I'm squarely in the camp of minimizing miniature overlap between Fantasy and Age of Sigmar - again, in an ideal world.

Realistically speaking, I wouldn't expect Daughters of Khaine or Dryads to get a rework anytime soon, meaning within the current decade. I believe both were released around 2013 and kind of became design cornerstones for the AoS armies that followed.

I think Clanrats, Marauders, and Grots are all much more likely. All three of them feat neatly in the category of models that players need a ton of, so they have to be easy to assemble, paint, and readily available - similar to Necron Warriors, Chainrasps, Termagants, and other cannon fodder. I definitely expect Clanrats to get a makeover this summer. Grots could be up for a glow-up 3 or 6 years down the line.

As for Skinks, my personal cope-theory is that the kit is already ready and done and just being held off. We've seen new Skinks on the Raptadons, as handlers, priests, attendants, and so on. That means that the future design principles of what a Skink looks like - or can look like, rather - has already been figured out. And with the models released all being sort of "deviations" from the norm (like the handler Skinks' crests running side-to-side), I would expect them to have planned out what that the "baseline" Skink will look like as well.

As for Beasts of Chaos... To me, they feel like the single-most ignored army by Games Workshop. I am not familiar with their lore in Sigmar, but very little about their model releases has demonstrated a willingness to secure for them a bespoke home among the model ranges of the Mortal Realms. If anything, the otherwise awesome single model they received this edition doesn't seem to herald some intriguing change or update to their design language. It looks exactly like Beastmen always have, for better or worse.

*However*, until recently, I would have said the same thing about Seraphon and even Ogors. Then one day a new Kroak model popped out of the sky and Mawtribes got their new models from WarCry.

So who really knows, right?

[DD-Lord]

I personally hope every single old fantasy-era miniature ends up being retired, because that's essentially what has kept me away from AoS for so long. No, I am serious. It wasn't until the CoS releases that I decided to become fully invested in AoS. The good thing is that it is practically guaranteed that they will all be retired one day as the age of the models becomes even more apparent.

On 1/28/2024 at 9:21 PM, Jator said:

I don't think you should worry about that. Older miniatures will probably end in ToW as they're renewed, but they're not going to update any unit with the specific purpose of leaving the old one for ToW.

 I suppose that's true, but will they actually be moved to TOW or will they stay interchangeable for both TOW and AoS?

[Nighthaunt Noob]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:34 PM, EntMan said:

I love the Dryads. Fun to build and paint and forgiving of my bad technique in both.

As others have pointed out they fit in well with the whole range including the newer stuff.

I don't think they'll be replaced as such, my only concern is they may be dropped from AoS Sylvaneth to move to TOW Wood elves.

An interesting thing about dryads is that they're one of the only basic troops to never make an appearance in an Underworlds warband so we have very little idea what a resculpt could even bring to them.

[Davariel]

I imagine updated Dryads would look extremely similar to the Branchwych, without the scythe or familiar.

I'd love to see them get a dual kit that builds either normal dryads or a unit with weapons and adornments (similar to what the Lady of Vines has).

[Gitzdee]

I dont like the dryad kit at all after having build 32 of them. It feels really dated and the details are lacking. There are not enough options in the kit to make them not look so samey imho. The models do look pretty good on the tabletop. So i guess they arent in a hurry update those soon.

Cant imagine what updated dryads would look like. The only image i get is just the revenants. Cant help but feel like revenants were supposed to be the new battleline but they chose to keep the dryads around.

[Flippy]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:15 PM, Kitsumy said:

well i love actual skinks, and they are really cheap money wise.

but after assembling lots of then u are right on easy to assemble bit, yes they are the easiest to build model i have seen if u dont clean moldlanes etc.

but.... if u need to clean everything like me, they are the worst model i have built. the weapon arm bit holding the bolttrower is miscasted always, like some chinesse recast i have seen, with every half of mold moved like, every half of the bit is 2 milimeters or so off, so i have to cut down every part to try to make them as 1 seamless piece, worst part is having to resculp every finger on the hand holding the weapon, weird enough it is only on the boltrower bit, the other weapons arms options are waaay better, same problem but only like 0,5 milimeters or so

 

still dont think seraphon need new resculp, maybe a new skink priest,  some big saurus hero( right now we only have the carno kit one) and a kroxigor hero. but there are other armys with more needed reworks ( most of them haha)

I've done much work with the Skinks recently and also painted new Hunters of Huanchi. The Hunters are obviously much better models, in terms of quality, detail etc. But the painting was a chore. Old Skinks are far better in this regard, especially if you plan to use them in large quantities. The mould lines are awful, though.