Rors Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 hours ago, The Red King said: Does anyone know if a gibbering congregation counts as 3 battleline choices or one? They "must be taken as a set referred to as a gibbering congregation. Although taken as a set, each is a separate unit." Also how does that work with batallions? Do they take one slot because it's in the list building phase or 3? My understanding is that you write gibbering congregation into the list, so for the purposes of battalions and the like like, it's one thing. But being 3 individual units in a set, you meet the 3 battleline units too. That said, BoC doesn't strike me as a book where the battleline is a tax. IDK have a similar thing with their sharks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Rors said: My understanding is that you write gibbering congregation into the list, so for the purposes of battalions and the like like, it's one thing. But being 3 individual units in a set, you meet the 3 battleline units too. That said, BoC doesn't strike me as a book where the battleline is a tax. IDK have a similar thing with their sharks. Not a tax no. Only determines whether I want to bring gors or dogs or centigor. I can't imagine it's best of both worlds (only 1 batallion slot but fulfills all 3 battleline) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 I'm very confident that the gibbers are one item on the list. For battleline I'm less confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Rors said: I'm very confident that the gibbers are one item on the list. For battleline I'm less confident. I'm very confident it's one. I just don't know which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarogrim Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 15 hours ago, The Red King said: Does anyone know if a gibbering congregation counts as 3 battleline choices or one? They "must be taken as a set referred to as a gibbering congregation. Although taken as a set, each is a separate unit." Also how does that work with batallions? Do they take one slot because it's in the list building phase or 3? I checked how the Idoneth sharks work in the app. They count for 3 battleline and also 3 slots in batallions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Tarogrim said: I checked how the Idoneth sharks work in the app. They count for 3 battleline and also 3 slots in batallions Same for Rot coven, both in the App and FAQ, would be very surprised if the Congregation was any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) Mini battle report: Gavespawn Vs Sons of B Very strange game where I won despite being wiped out turn 4 (on Mega left with 20ish wounds). I was just too far ahead on points. I definitely didn't play perfectly and it felt like luck wasn't on my side, so a solid first outing for the book. His list was simply 4 Megas: Brod, Warstompa with Run and charge, Kracken Eater, Beastsmasha with +5 wounds. 1 drop battalion. Mission was In the Presence of Idols. My list and performance analysis. Dragon Ogor Shaggoth: General, Slakflay, Slitherwrack Helm, Hailstorm: -Did solid damage, best turn was 16 damage (with help from Tendrils). Hailstorm only cast successfully once before I double turned: so zero impact. Slakfray was great for keeping everything moving after ambush. Slitherwrack helm was great when it worked (once out of two charges), as you'd expect against armies with few units. Not 100% convinced it's worth 275, but great utility piece and are sturdiest hero for holding important artifact/command trait. Great Bray Shaman: Vicious Stranglethorns -So important for the 18" Rituals of Ruin. Off the board first turn to drag a Mega backwards, then joined the main force. Stranglethorns obviously not that great Vs Gargants, but imagine it's great V some lists. Tzaangor Shaman: Brayblast Horn, Tendrils of Atrophy. -Tendrils is just devastatingly good now and as a cheap fast wizards with extra +3 cast when needed, he's the perfect caster. Horn rolled a 1, then I forgot about the Gor on the turn after Beastlord: Stubborn of a Rhinox. -Double turn meant he got exposed and killed by impact hits, so can't comment on effectiveness. Gibbering Congregation -Interesting unit. Got some chip damage with shooting and combat, -1 A aura is great but 1" range and 5w model means it's usually a 1 shot. On balance probably not worth the cost plus Sub-faction, especially when we have Cockatrice available which doesn't a similar thing but more effectively. (note I avoided including Cockatrice in this game as they feel like a hard counter to Sons, and I expect them to be Errated ASAP). 3 * 10 Ungor Raiders -Brilliant. Only did about 15 wounds between them dropping them in spread out in his back line forced him to split his forces, letting me dash ahead on VP and take on his army piecemeal. 2 * 10 Tzaangor (dual weapon): Gave away one unit cheaply but the other one absolutely smashed face. Slowly dies to the Mega-roar monstrous rampage which is especially good against them, but 8 nearly killed Brodd in one turn (with Tentrills). Ended up needing a bit of help from the Shaggoth but that was only due to some hot saving throws. Only major problem is the need for them to be Gall Vets battalion to be completely effective. 53 attacks on the charge, yes please (didn't bother with the great weapons) -2 * 3 Dragon Ogors: Similar to the Tzaangor, lost one unit cheaply but the other had a field-day. Really useful to have a self healing unit to dump ritual wounds onto, but obviously All-herd is an alternative option for this. All in all a good showing and definite pass of the damage test that is SoB. With better play and many some screens I'm confidence I could have completely steam-rolled them. Want to give Allherd a go next time. Edited February 2, 2023 by Magnus The Blue 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) I kind of assumed the congregation would work that way. App is just wrong for now then. Well considering that I have 2 lists I want to try. The first one was mostly a joke called all herd all the time that literally uses every brayherd infantry I own but I'm not not interested in running it hah. The second is more well rounded but is a million drops so I don't know. I do like the idea of having a unit of bulls that can chIn activate with the doombull as well as the bestigor doing the same with the beastlord. As for the the spawn the way I see it it's 76 ish points for a unit that will either reduce enemy attacks drastically or absorb 5 wounds that would have gone into a much more important unit (possibly more if your opponent allocates too many attacks to it). Combined with stranglethorns you can tag the very corner of a unit and debuff the whole block. They also make fine batteries for rituals of ruin since they're probably one use debuffs anyway. The cockatrice is a great defensive tech but more is better with our fairly unremarkable defensive stat lines. I plan to just mix a spawn into each of my 3 big threats and keep a cockatrice nearby to make my opponent to make hard decisions, how sure can he be of destroying a target when they are minus 1 attack and there's 50/50 chance he'll only be hitting on 6's. You can't bank on the enemy messing up but the more hard questions you present the more likely you are to make them slip. I feel like eventually I'll break down and accept that the skullfray command isn't good enough to use and I'll bring a big block of bulls with the improved ambush trait instead but for now I'm going to keep my skullfray dreams of the closest I can get to khorngors alive with a beastlord and his bestigor. - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos - Subfaction: Allherd - Grand Strategy: Desecrating Brayherd - Triumph: Bloodthirsty LEADERS Beastlord (145)* Beastlord (145)** - General - Command Traits: Skullfray Gorehorn - Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm - Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage Great Bray-Shaman (95)** - Artefacts of Power: Brayblast Trumpet (summon 10 ungor raider) - Spells: Tendrils of Atrophy Great Bray-Shaman (95)** - Spells: Wild Rampage BATTLELINE 20 Ungors (160)* - Halfhorn - Gnarled Shortspear - 2 x Brayhorn Blower - 2 x Banner Bearer 10 Ungor Raiders (115)* - Halfhorn - Brayhorn Blower - Banner Bearer 20 Gors (220)* - Foe-render - Paired Hacking Blades - 2 x Banner Bearer - 2 x Brayhorn Blower 10 Gors (110)* - Foe-render - Banner Bearer - Brayhorn Blower - Hacking Blade and Beastshield 10 Gors (110)* - Foe-render - Banner Bearer - Brayhorn Blower - Hacking Blade and Beastshield 30 Bestigors (660)** - Gouge-horn - 3 x Brayhorn - 3 x Banner Bearer OTHER Cockatrice (105)** ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS 1 x Ravening Direflock (40) CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment **Warlord TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000 - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos - Subfaction: Gavespawn - Grand Strategy: Protect the Herdstone - Triumph: Bloodthirsty LEADERS Beastlord (145)* - General - Command Traits: Skullfray Gorehorn - Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm - Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage Great Bray-Shaman (95)* - Spells: Tendrils of Atrophy Great Bray-Shaman (95)* - Artefacts of Power: Brayblast Trumpet (summon 10 gor) - Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns Doombull (160)** BATTLELINE 3 Morghurite Chaos Spawn (Gibbering Congregation) (230) 10 Bestigors (220)* - Gouge-horn - Brayhorn - Banner Bearer OTHER 6 Bullgors (390)*** - Bloodkine - Man-splitter Great Axe - 2 x Warheard Drummer - 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer 6 Bullgors (390)** - Bloodkine - Paired Cleaving Axes - 2 x Warheard Drummer - 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer Cockatrice (105)* 10 Chaos Warhounds (110)*** ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS 1 x Ravening Direflock (40) TERRAIN 1 x Herdstone (0) CORE BATTALIONS *Warlord **Galletian Command ***Galletian Veterans TOTAL POINTS: 1980/2000 Edited February 2, 2023 by The Red King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracan Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) So I reckon I am going to try this list first, was hoping to fit 3 or 6 more Dragon Ogres and an extra Cockatrice in, but wow things got expensive... The idea is to be cagey turn one or even ambush everything with ungor running diversions. Raiders definitely ambush and try and potshot a wizard or a bad-save glass cannon hoard unit, with 60x 4+4+ no rend shots in movement phase, then another 60 at 3+4+ in shooting phase if CP allow. all the while trying to stay out of combat till bottom turn two Where after the Tzaangor shaman General will be charged into the biggest target/threat along with enlightened. The target will be always strike last (slitherwrack helm), the enlightened will get +1 rend (herdstone), +1 attack (skullfrey), +1 to wound (visions of past), probably all out attacked for +1 to hit, and the hope to get either or both anthropy and rampage off for +1 damage and exploding 6es. Cockatrice running in to give some defense to Enlightened if anything survives to hit back... +1 to hit from Grashak, rampage and anthropy would work for Bullgors as well. All-herd just to replenish ungor and raiders, but would assume ungor units are too small to take advantage. is it me or are Tzaangor shamans just better faster tougher shamans for 20 more points? Not sold on Doombull artifact for 5++, any better ideas? - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos - Subfaction: Allherd - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs - Triumph: Inspired LEADERS Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)* - General - Command Traits: Skullfray Gorehorn - Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm - Spells: Tendrils of Atrophy Grashrak Fellhoof (180)** Doombull (160)** - Artefacts of Power: Gryph-feather Charm Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)** - Spells: Wild Rampage BATTLELINE 1x Ungors (80)* - Gnarled Shortspear 3x Ungor Raiders (345)* - Banner Bearer - Brayhorn Blower 1x Ungors (80)*** - Gnarled Shortspear OTHER 6x Bullgors (390) - Warheard Drummer - Warheard Banner Bearer - Man-splitter Great Axe *** 6x Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs of Tzeentch (430)* Cockatrice (105)* Grashrak's Despoilers (180)* CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment **Command Entourage - Magnificent ***Galletian Veterans TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000 Edited February 2, 2023 by Dracan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 45 minutes ago, Dracan said: So I reckon I am going to try this list first, was hoping to fit 3 or 6 more Dragon Ogres and an extra Cockatrice in, but wow things got expensive... The idea is to be cagey turn one or even ambush everything with ungor running diversions. Raiders definitely ambush and try and potshot a wizard or a bad-save glass cannon hoard unit, with 60x 4+4+ no rend shots in movement phase, then another 60 at 3+4+ in shooting phase if CP allow. all the while trying to stay out of combat till bottom turn two. Feels very thin on the ground. I think 3 expensive fragile units is asking for trouble. Since your leaning into the Enlightened, I'd say drop the Bulls and a hero to get some tougher units: Gors, Tzaangor or Bestigors. Even Dragon Ogors are tougher than the bulls. The big advantage of the Great Bray Shaman is the 18" ritual range, make a big difference for either 18" 6+ ward aura or pulling around a unit from off the table. Devolve is solid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 The thinness on the groundness is real. Time will tell if we have the punch and defensive tech to be elite or if we need to keep trying to screen. My gut says we don't need screens nearly as much with army wide ambush and things like cockatrice, stranglethorns, gavespawn, etc to protect our hammers that used to require such careful delivery but again. Time will tell not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I think ultimately this army will probably be an faction that wins by hold one, two, more and battle tactics turns 1-3 while denying the opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Rors said: I think ultimately this army will probably be an faction that wins by hold one, two, more and battle tactics turns 1-3 while denying the opponent. On turn 4, your units are going to have extra 2 rend. Even a block of gors can threaten 2+ heroes!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Next 2k list I'm thinking of. - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos - Subfaction: Duskwalkers - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs - Triumph: Indomitable LEADERS Great Bray-Shaman (95)** -Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)** - Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm - Spells: Tendrils of Atrophy Beastlord (145)** - General - Command Traits: Bestial Cunning - Aspects of the Champion: Tunnel Master BATTLELINE Gors (110)* - Banner Bearer - Brayhorn Blower - Foe-render - Hacking Blade and Beastshield Ungors (80)** - Halfhorn - Banner Bearer - Brayhorn Blower - Pitted Blade Ungor Raiders (115)** BEHEMOTH Cygor (210)** OTHER Beasts of Chaos Tzaangors (340)* - Twistbray - 2 x Icon Bearer - 2 x Brayhorn Blower - 4 x Tzaangor Mutant - 8 x Savage Greatblade Beasts of Chaos Tzaangors (170)* - Twistbray - Icon Bearer - Brayhorn Blower - 2 x Tzaangor Mutant - 4 x Savage Greatblade Ungor Raiders (115)** Dragon Ogors (225)** Dragon Ogors (225)** ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS 1 x Ravening Direflock (40) CORE BATTALIONS *Galletian Veterans **Battle Regiment TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000 Might replace the Cygor with a pair of Cockatrices if I am feeling mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrich Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) Got my first game in with the new rules against Sylvaneth. Definitely a learning curve in there but the points hikes were definitely felt. I used Gavespawn. I used the propagator of ruin command trait on a shaman general (brought two great bray shamans). My thoughts overall: - Rituals are good but you need to pass the wounds off. Both my shamans took 3 mortal wounds from using a ritual turn one. The general shaman was off the table. I had a unit of ungor for the other shaman but durthu killed them all with shooting. This left me in a tough spot where I couldn't maximize rituals as the game went on. Also feels bad to take 3 mortals and only deal 1. - We have some really good spells, but... our spell casters can't compete with actual spell casters. The warsong revenant pretty much shut me down. I did get devolve on durthu which was fun watching him limp around the battlefield. Couldn't teleport as then he'd fail the charge no matter what. - Gors are pretty good support fighters. One unit, which was shot down to 3 models had rallied back to 8 over two turns. Charged a unit 6 kurnouths with scythes. Typically a scary unit. Made them strike last which allowed me to use bullgors which killed 5/6 on turn 2. - Ungor raiders. Neat ability to shoot off the table, but temper your expectations. You still aren't killing anything. They shot some tree revenants from off the table, killed one (which was later verduous harmonied back) then came on and did no damage to drycha. - Chimera was a test. Was pleasantly surprised. It took out Drycha from full. It's not tough, like our whole army, and durthu killed it without effort. - Bestigors seemed alright. They were kinda left out as they showed up and murdered a tree rev unit, and then everything near them teleported away. Also rally on 5's with these guys is great. - Morghurite spawns as one of the few units that can run and charge were decent. One spawn killed the arch revenant with hits shooting which was quite the roll. Unfortunately, the warsong revenant kept blowing them up with his spell. I will try them again as a support piece. I ended up getting tabled minus my bestigor. Rituals were not as effective as it would appear on paper. I tried to utilize ambush with alot of my hitters on turn 2 after he had committed some of his things. This was pretty good but can still be screened out easily. I was basically forced into his kurnouths with scythes, which worked out in the end, but good players will not give you good options. Spell casting armies make me want to take a cygor because you aren't stopping them. Against sylvaneth, I know they won't care about a cygor as they can heal the damage, but even a +1 caster can do what ever he wants against us. Points are a little high as our durability didn't go up and we no longer summon to make up for fragility. Edited February 3, 2023 by Darkrich bad grammar 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazhak Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Enjoying the new battletome, which is strangely somehow a bit of a throwback to pre-AoS Beastmen. By that I mean that there seem to be more opportunities for a variety of units engaging across the field, each hitting quickly and hard, rather than the chaff screens that seemed to characterize this faction's play more recently. I like the Rituals of Ruin, which offer up effects that compensate for the unlikeliness of our spells or prayers succeeding. I agree with the point made in previous points that the wounds from Rituals of Ruin need to be passed off to units, with the possible exception of the Shaggoth. Other heroes need to pass the wounds to support their own survivability. I am enjoying my centigors again. Fielding 15 is often unexpected by opponents and, with All-Out Defense, the unit has significant resilience with good damage output. A solid roll for a first turn Blood Taunt, which pulls a battleline unit out of position, followed by reasonable performances from the centigor unit during both the shooting and combat phases, can make a big impact from the onset of the game. Ambush remains more a complement to the army, rather than something on which to go all-in. I use it to target opposing heroes (with warherd) and secure distant objectives (with thunderscorn). To that end, the Doombull has its artefact "The Knowing Eye" to increase the odds that I have a command point for either the Forward to Victory or All-Out Attack command actions, or that the extra move the artefact provides addresses such concerns. Here's my current list. I suspect there will be revisions, as the faction's new dynamics become clearer, yet it seems fun and productive. For instance, I am presently going with Desecrating Brayherd as my Grand Strategy, given the synergy between Allherd and the Gor units' enhanced Rally mechanic, yet I might explore other options. I welcome your feedback and, as always, happy wargaming! Faction: Beasts of Chaos Greatfray: Allherd Realm: Hysh Grand Strategy: Desecrating Brayherd LEADERS * #1 Great Bray-Shaman (95) General Command Trait: Propagator of Ruin Spell: Primal Dominance * #2 Great Bray-Shaman (95) Spell: Primal Dominance * Doombull (160) Artefact: The Knowing Eye Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha BATTLELINE * 15 Centigor (510) - Full Command * #1 20 Gor (220) - Full Command - Paired Hacking Blades * #2 20 Gor (220) - Full Command - Paired Hacking Blades ADDITIONAL UNITS * #1 3 Dragon Ogor (225) * #2 3 Dragon Ogor (225) BEHEMOTHS * Cygor (210) ENDLESS SPELLS Ravening Direflock (40) BATTALIONS * Battle Regiment TOTAL POINTS 2000/2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 On 2/5/2023 at 1:43 AM, Fazhak said: Here's my current list. I suspect there will be revisions, as the faction's new dynamics become clearer, yet it seems fun and productive. For instance, I am presently going with Desecrating Brayherd as my Grand Strategy, given the synergy between Allherd and the Gor units' enhanced Rally mechanic, yet I might explore other options. I welcome your feedback and, as always, happy wargaming! I like the idea but think the 20 Gor units and to a lesser extent the giant unit of Centigor will struggle without Gallatic Veterans battalion. You'll rarely get more than a 50% in combat at a time. If you really want to stick to 1 drop battalion I'd go for 10 Gor, 10 Gor, 10 Tzaangor and group the Dragon Ogors into one unit. 10 model units struggle a bit less with the 1" range, Tzaangor especially as their damaged output is more focuses on a few of the modes (Great Weapons and Mutants, while the shield bearers stay at the back to hold coherency). Spell selection seems a bit odd (unless this is a place holder), I'm going to always go for Tendrils of Atrophy for at least one wizard. Our ritual even lets you pull people into range first. Spell for the second Shaman is more of a toss up, personal preference is Vicious Stranglethorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Honestly forgot about this place lol (discord is so nice). Loving the new book so far, my games has only been with Allherd, but hot dang is Allherd fun. I feel some units are way over costed, and will work with them more when they go down some points in a few to 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Maddpainting said: Honestly forgot about this place lol (discord is so nice). Loving the new book so far, my games has only been with Allherd, but hot dang is Allherd fun. I feel some units are way over costed, and will work with them more when they go down some points in a few to 6 months. Which ones in particular? For me only Bestigor and Centigor feel a touch over costed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said: Which ones in particular? For me only Bestigor and Centigor feel a touch over costed. Worst points imo was Enlighten on foot, they are grossly over costed, I can see 100pts, maybe even 110 at the most, but no way 165 especially when Slaangors are way better and 130pts, or Tzaangors for 5pts difference. This IMO must be a typo its so bad. Shaggoth is grossly over costed too, by 50pts or so IMO, he doesn't have a role outside of thanks battle mage, no real support to the army other than a spell. If it was 2 Spells and more wounds it would have been perfect for its points. Next bad ones are the Jabber and Chimera lost a lot of damage via less rend, D3 from D6, and not counting herdstone rend gone (yes got cheaper but they do almost nothing now it hurts). I wouldn't take a jabber for more than 140pts, 130pts IMO would be fine. Chimera needs to be 160, especially given it lost its +charge rule. Bestigors got everything they wanted but at a terrible price, 20 Gors actually can out damage them very easily, so what is the purpose of Bestigors? They really should be 180pts. Ghorgon are a little too much too, I dont see any reason to take them over Bullgors or Giants. Yes it's X swallows are insane against coherency, but outside of that hitting on a 4+ just limits its damage way too much for a 5+ save monster. Centigors are jack of all, master of none. I'd rather just have 2 Chariots for the 20pts more. They are over costed but IMO not by much, 10pts on the safe side, but 20pts to make them want to take more than 1 unit. Raiders are hard to balance, but with the pre-game gone, and less range for more shooting, I feel they are more of a wash than better, I would lower them 15pts. EDIT: Also Skyfires, IDK why they even went up lol. PS: Dont get me wrong, a lot of the book is good, just a few things over costed. Chariots, Bullgors, Doombull, Shamans, Gors, are all great, M Spawns are amazing too, many things are also mostly balanced too like War Hounds, Dragon Ogors, Ungors, Giants, Cygors. I just feel a handful are over costed. Edited February 6, 2023 by Maddpainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Yeah, fair enough Enlighted on foot are bad value, can't really argue with that one. Shaggoth I think is still a bit too early to call. it's a great utility piece with monstrous rampage, healing, AoE mortals, decent combat output and a great spell lore. Also probably the safest place to keep our wonderful command traits and artefacts. I'd love for them to be cheaper but think they are still going to see play as is. Chimera feels like it's in a good place to me, cheap fast monster with lots of attacks and doesn't degrade. Ghorgons can be devastating now. 3 eats, heals and lots of high damage rend 3+ attacks. They absolutely savage heavy infantry, which is getting more and more common. They also have healing potential and it's not like +1 to hit is hard to find. Bestigors and Centigors, agreed just a bit too pricy considering the other options. To me raiders are a bargain. 115 points for 40 Shots basically where ever you want them (20 of which can't be All out Defenced). Combined with rituals you can really make a mess of key heros and fragile units before you seriously engage the opponent's army. 30+ is almost an auto win against some armies as you take out their key support pieces turn 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) My issue with Raiders is after those 40 shots they do all but nothing the rest of the game, Having played 40 Raiders in almost every list in 2nd, and 20-30 in almost every list in 3rd, they really dont feel worth 115pts. You can Ambush and shoot a lot sure, but once they are on the table they do nothing. Most of my opponents now know to stay on the inside or put bad units near the edges Especially given 1/2 the shots has to be the closest unit and I had to ritual pull to shoot if I dont go first, or I have to shoot a bubble wrap unit which I feel is a waste on a side/back unit I dont care about or want to Ambush near. I do only have a couple games with them, but so far after testing I think i'll drop the 20 completely from my lists. Chimera really doesn't feel good anymore with low rend, it was doing like 4D in combat. You have to use its rampage and AoA just to get damage through. No backet is very nice, but really just take Centigors, they out preformed it almost everytime. Heck A cockatrice did as much as it did on the charge. Edited February 6, 2023 by Maddpainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 But I like to say, hot dog is the Doombull with Slitherwrack helm insane, as well as Bullgors right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 3 hours ago, Maddpainting said: Bestigors got everything they wanted but at a terrible price, 20 Gors actually can out damage them very easily, so what is the purpose of Bestigors? They really should be 180pts. Not only do they out damage them. They do it with shields! So you're trading worse damage for 1 better bravery and 10 less bodies on the board. Sadly I just can't do it considering how thin we are on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdin Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Maddpainting said: But I like to say, hot dog is the Doombull with Slitherwrack helm insane, as well as Bullgors right now. Hot dog what ? I dont get this pun. So what you want to say is that DB with Slitherwrack is insanely good, and so are regular Bullgors ? But I thought people here said they arent good at all for those points, though at "ideal" they can output high dmg. I am still waiting for my book to arrive at my LGS so that I can dust my beasties off hence I had no chance to test anything yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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