The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[Lich King]

Is there going to be a Christmas Day reveal or preview show like before ?

[Asbestress]

12 minutes ago, Lich King said:

Is there going to be a Christmas Day reveal or preview show like before ?

There's supposed to be an article on the 25th.

[Asbestress]

New Devoted/Order of Azyr bits.

Maybe for a new War Altar?

Maybe one that belongs to the Cult of the Wheel, and is not rolling

but being carried by Flagellants perhaps?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I am enjoying the little gargoyle guys. The new design elements are definitely quite distinct from the old Empire kits, but still communicate the idea of sigmar-worshipping humans quite clearly. I also like how the design language is very unlike any other warhammer army.

To me, the religious side of the army looks well developed. I think I will enjoy those models. I hope they also have cool new designs in store for the more martial and technological sides of the faction.

[CommissarRotke]

22 hours ago, Asbestress said:

New Devoted/Order of Azyr bits.

Not so sure; some seem to be intended as generic religious bits for soldiers from around the realms (esp the gargoyles), the article talks in very broad terms:

“The varied cults of Sigmar and their associated religious practices give us a place to really explore the depths and grit of the Mortal Realms”, says Seb. “It’s a chance to showcase the rich cultural background of the setting.”

And it’s not just shining hammers and bold comets that adorn these marching mortals – their gewgaws have a grim side, too.

“Decorative grotesques are sprinkled through the army”, grins Seb. “These disturbing gargoyles aren’t just symbols hammered out in iron – they’re real threats that actually exist in the Mortal Realms.

the relic bearer and the double censer I'd agree are probably for Devoted cultists, but I am hoping the rest are not stuck to a cultist kit!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/05/dawnbringer-previews-the-importance-of-religion-relics-and-ritual-to-the-cities-of-sigmar/

[Asbestress]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

Not so sure; some seem to be intended as generic religious bits for soldiers from around the realms (esp the gargoyles), the article talks in very broad terms:

“The varied cults of Sigmar and their associated religious practices give us a place to really explore the depths and grit of the Mortal Realms”, says Seb. “It’s a chance to showcase the rich cultural background of the setting.”

And it’s not just shining hammers and bold comets that adorn these marching mortals – their gewgaws have a grim side, too.

“Decorative grotesques are sprinkled through the army”, grins Seb. “These disturbing gargoyles aren’t just symbols hammered out in iron – they’re real threats that actually exist in the Mortal Realms.

the relic bearer and the double censer I'd agree are probably for Devoted cultists, but I am hoping the rest are not stuck to a cultist kit!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/05/dawnbringer-previews-the-importance-of-religion-relics-and-ritual-to-the-cities-of-sigmar/

I'm leaning towards that direction now, but that posits more questions.

Where are those gargoyles supposed to go? Imo they are far too big to be for generic infantry (and their connection points too angular to be for banners). I'm personally thinking they may be for:
A, new Ogors?
B, New War Altar/some kind of cart/vehicle (mainly the big one with the chain and double censers)
C, Really over the top Sisters of Battle style reliquary standards for infantry

Relic bearer could be new Flagellants/Cultists Champion, double censer maybe a kind of "roof arch" for a War Altar (flat to have a statue on top?)

[RyantheFett]

Wonder how long they will keep the units staying or being removed a secret? Enjoy the fact that they are using old artwork with units that are rumored being cut lol.

Edited January 6, 2023 by RyantheFett

[CommissarRotke]

4 hours ago, Asbestress said:

Where are those gargoyles supposed to go? Imo they are far too big to be for generic infantry (and their connection points too angular to be for banners).

mmmmmmmmmm that's a great point

4 hours ago, Asbestress said:

A, new Ogors?
B, New War Altar/some kind of cart/vehicle (mainly the big one with the chain and double censers)
C, Really over the top Sisters of Battle style reliquary standards for infantry

A could also include cavalry or even other Order races they want to introduce

B including artillery for sure, with these gargoyles I wouldn't be surprised if the vehicles could be decorated in this gothic cultist style or more steampunky like your pfp

C is probably the most interesting, since it could mean a TON of variety for unit banners 👀 having that option would not surprise me, I've been wondering if GW is going to split iconography/bitz between DBCs and City garrisons themselves.

if they are split, I could see DBC style being what gets the crazier, more gothic bitz like this teaser. While [certain] Cities could have more regimental banners as a standing army. VERY much enjoying these gargoyles and gothic vibes over the original skull bitz we saw.

[EccentricCircle]

The gargoyles are cute, but I'm increasingly not too fussed by this direction. Religious humans have always been my least favourite part of warhammer, and the least interesting element of cities. Give e a multicultural alliance of fantasy races any day.

[KriticalKhan]

7 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

The gargoyles are cute, but I'm increasingly not too fussed by this direction. Religious humans have always been my least favourite part of warhammer, and the least interesting element of cities. Give e a multicultural alliance of fantasy races any day.

They might be the least interesting to you, but they also haven't had a proper army in the seven years since this game released. If you consider the (admittedly few) WH Fantasy Empire players still here, then they've been waiting for new models since before AoS even existed.

The idea behind Cities of Sigmar is nice, but the execution of, "Uh, here are the armies we don't know what to do with. Now go away." Was never going to last forever, and people were predicting that the second the book got announced. (I'm not happy about that, btw, but anyone playing legacy factions should be doing so under the assumption that they could be dropped at any moment. I say this as someone who mains ogres.)

I'm pretty confident we're still going to see elves and dwarfs in the new book, whether or not it's still called Cities of Sigmar or goes for the full Dawnbringer rebrand, but even if they're in a much smaller capacity, it will have the benefit of an actual, unified aesthetic to begin with. Anything disparate and unique can be left to conversions, just as with any other army.

[Clan's Cynic]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:42 PM, RyantheFett said:

Wonder how long they will keep the units staying or being removed a secret? Enjoy the fact that they are using old artwork with units that are rumored being cut lol.

When you see stuff vanishing off the webstore probably. Earliest will be when/if we start seeing leaks of the contents page. Anything with an 'army box' tends to get leaked a good while out from release (remember when we had STD sometime silly like June?)

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[CommissarRotke]

On 1/7/2023 at 5:25 PM, EccentricCircle said:

The gargoyles are cute, but I'm increasingly not too fussed by this direction. Religious humans have always been my least favourite part of warhammer, and the least interesting element of cities. Give e a multicultural alliance of fantasy races any day.

The other thing is they're showing off the religious bitz now, there's still possibilities we get non-culty units At least, I would assume. we'll see if that translates to different kinds of bitz related to the realms instead of Sigmar. Hell, I'd be fine with bitz being all religious if it meant having more gods than Sigmar represented in them

[NinthMusketeer]

I like the cult of the wheel. It is exactly the sort of inane lunacy that crops up at the extremes of human societies in every era. Even the Chaos Gods aren't touching those guys 😆

[CommissarRotke]

5 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

I like the cult of the wheel. It is exactly the sort of inane lunacy that crops up at the extremes of human societies in every era. Even the Chaos Gods aren't touching those guys 😆

I'm EXTREMELY curious to see what other cults they've come up with for the book!!! The fact that they teased us with the most crackpot one first just makes me want more 😭

[Asbestress]

31 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I'm EXTREMELY curious to see what other cults they've come up with for the book!!! The fact that they teased us with the most crackpot one first just makes me want more 😭

I'm also curious about how many of the different cults will be represented on the miniatures. We've seen some bits with the "twin-tailed wheel" already, so maybe more stuff like that?

But seeing them giving CoS even this much new lore, I'm very intrigued to see what other new stuff is coming.

New cults, Freeguild lore? With us very likely getting a Cities Ogors unit, maybe the other non-human races may get some new lore tidbits for potential future stuff?

I wish we'd start getting some more stuff other than renders... even Sisters weren't kept this long without a full mini.

[Vongolo]

11 hours ago, Asbestress said:

I'm also curious about how many of the different cults will be represented on the miniatures. We've seen some bits with the "twin-tailed wheel" already, so maybe more stuff like that?

But seeing them giving CoS even this much new lore, I'm very intrigued to see what other new stuff is coming.

New cults, Freeguild lore? With us very likely getting a Cities Ogors unit, maybe the other non-human races may get some new lore tidbits for potential future stuff?

I wish we'd start getting some more stuff other than renders... even Sisters weren't kept this long without a full mini.

I feel like it's gonna be either adepticon or warhammer fest. LVO will be probably filled by the seraphon release and the spring battletomes reveals, so nothing there.

[Asbestress]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Empire-Helstorm-Rocket-Battery

Might be nothing, but the Helstorm Rocket Battery just got a new main picture and detail-shots on the webstore.
Maybe it could be staying for the new BT? Don't see any point in doing taking new shots of it only to remove it from the site just a few months after.

(Steam Tank, Freeguild General/Battlemage on Griffon and Demigryph Knights also have really similar pics (with the same basing style), but those are from the initial 2.0 BT release, so probably nothing. Also, now the Helblaster Volley Gun has the same pics as the Rocket Battery 😛)

[CommissarRotke]

23 minutes ago, Asbestress said:

Might be nothing, but the Helstorm Rocket Battery just got a new main picture and detail-shots on the webstore.
Maybe it could be staying for the new BT? Don't see any point in doing taking new shots of it only to remove it from the site just a few months after.

I want to agree with you so badly... and then there's this guy

How are you gonna keep him around after a range refresh? Or NOT make new artillery for Cities?

Kind of leads me to believe they updated the pictures for TOW rather than being a permanent Cities fixture.

[Asbestress]

9 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I want to agree with you so badly... and then there's this guy

How are you gonna keep him around after a range refresh? Or NOT make new artillery for Cities?

Kind of leads me to believe they updated the pictures for TOW rather than being a permanent Cities fixture.

But then why have it on a round base?
Either this is kept for CoS, permanently or temporarily until W2 like Lumineth, or it's a really weird choice for an update.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 hours ago, Asbestress said:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Empire-Helstorm-Rocket-Battery

Might be nothing, but the Helstorm Rocket Battery just got a new main picture and detail-shots on the webstore.
Maybe it could be staying for the new BT? Don't see any point in doing taking new shots of it only to remove it from the site just a few months after.

(Steam Tank, Freeguild General/Battlemage on Griffon and Demigryph Knights also have really similar pics (with the same basing style), but those are from the initial 2.0 BT release, so probably nothing. Also, now the Helblaster Volley Gun has the same pics as the Rocket Battery 😛)

That seems pretty significant, actually. The Helstorm went all of its AoS life without proper pictures on the web store. It would be surprising if they updated it now only to discontinue the kit in 6 months.

I hope the kit sticks around, personally. I just built 4 of them last year.

[zilberfrid]

On 1/6/2023 at 5:42 PM, RyantheFett said:

Wonder how long they will keep the units staying or being removed a secret? Enjoy the fact that they are using old artwork with units that are rumored being cut lol.

If the 2019 culling is anything to go by, until after half of them are no longer available worldwide.

Edited January 18, 2023 by zilberfrid

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

41 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

If the 2019 culling is anything to go by, until after half of them are no longer available worldwide.

I really have to remember to pick up Karl Franz/the Freeguild General on Griffon  sometime soon. I suspect that guy will be gone in a few months, and he's actually pretty cheap for a big character model.

[CommissarRotke]

16 hours ago, Asbestress said:

But then why have it on a round base?
Either this is kept for CoS, permanently or temporarily until W2 like Lumineth, or it's a really weird choice for an update.

 

9 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That seems pretty significant, actually. The Helstorm went all of its AoS life without proper pictures on the web store. It would be surprising if they updated it now only to discontinue the kit in 6 months.

I hope the kit sticks around, personally. I just built 4 of them last year.

it will probably stay then if this is significant. I've been in camp "Redo All The Artillery" so maybe my disappointment is getting in the way helstorms feel too anchored to WHF for the team to not redesign a rocket carriage for AOS is where I'm coming from, but I agree it makes zero sense to put all this effort in (and literal new bases) for nothing.

[zilberfrid]

10 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I really have to remember to pick up Karl Franz/the Freeguild General on Griffon  sometime soon. I suspect that guy will be gone in a few months, and he's actually pretty cheap for a big character model.

It is also just a really good model.

As for price, you get a Battlemage, a General and a General on Griffin. Sure, the pedestrians need some work, but the parts are certainly there.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

 

it will probably stay then if this is significant. I've been in camp "Redo All The Artillery" so maybe my disappointment is getting in the way helstorms feel too anchored to WHF for the team to not redesign a rocket carriage for AOS is where I'm coming from, but I agree it makes zero sense to put all this effort in (and literal new bases) for nothing.

A reason I could see to update the store pictures and then later redo/remove the kit anyway is that up to now the images in the webstore had the wrong models for the crew. They were using the empire cannon crew for some reason. Maybe someone at GW thought that could be legally troublesome, advertising the kit with models that are not even in it.