Cities of Sigmar in AoS 3

[Belathor]

I have the start of a competitive list but I am unsure where to go with it. I kinda have everything I want in a little under 1k.

 

hurricanum

gotrek

runelord

20 irondrakes

6 demigryphs

 

demigryphs and this is a hot take, are going to be the new phoenix guard. Get your stonks in now. 3+ save easily 2+ with lots of wounds new rally i think them with halberds might be the new best anvil for us.

 

anyway i don’t know where to take this list. Do i get a bridge do I spam chaff do i get a gryphon or the new stormcast model. I’m not sure where to go we have three big threats.

 

i don’t even know what city to plug this into I’m thinking maybe living

Edited July 10, 2021 by Belathor

[Exploder]

I'm looking into getting into AoS for third edition and CoS is one of the factions I'm considering, I love the idea of a magic and technology faction and my idea for it would be a magic heavy army consisting of battlemages, celestial hurricanum/luminark, phoenixies, endless spells, (LRL stuff like Teclis or something else if I'd go the settlers gain route) (maybe stormcast wizard since the comet looks so much fun) and for tech part it would be stuff like outriders with grenade launchers, handgunners, steam tanks, gyrobombers and artillery.

I dunno which city would be the best for this idea, the phoenix city looks good, hallowheart is probably the best, settlers gain looks good since I'm up for LRL stuff, the city that makes grenade launcher outriders battleline also looks very appealing, if I could make like a very mobile army of them + luminarks/celestial hurricanums and maybe gyrobombers/phoenixes that sounds very fun.

What do you guys think? Think CoS with the way I envision them be the faction for me?

[GTK]

I'm also returning to playing for Aos3 and am building a COS army.Mostly mixed units of Hafling,Humans and dwarfs.A lot of old 4th and 5th edition models.So far the only new stuff is converted Hafling Bloodbowl models to go with my old metal Haflings.I will be getting the new Witch Hunter models and the Sisters of the Watch as I really like them and they fit with the tactics I'm going for.I'll probably start with Hammerhal as my city,I like the ignore battle shock in my own territory and the chances for extra CP.The only problem I see with COS is you seem to end up with a semi gun line.Looks like that is the strength of COS.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

So, Gyrocopters are just super good now, right?

I mean, they won't be your main damage dealers, but for 75 points they seem like a ridiculously good little package. One point of comparison for me are Soulblight Gravelords Fell Bats: 14" flying move, 75 points and basically no staying power or damage output, but people still want to run a unit or two of them just to have counterplay to Unleash Hell.

Now, Gyrocopters also have no staying power, but they do have a 16" flying move and some actual offensive presence against hordes. Plus even a little once-per-game mortal wound bomb. And since they are elite now they can Unleash Hell or Redeploy if you want them to.

I think they also make pretty nice companion units for infantry blocks. Stick one next to your Phoenix Guard or Greatswords and you get a decent Unleash Hell reaction without having to run a gunline.

At first I thought they lost some viability after the 3.0 reinforcement changes (you can now only run them in squads of 2), but I really like them as one-model utility units now.

[Belathor]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

So, Gyrocopters are just super good now, right?

I mean, they won't be your main damage dealers, but for 75 points they seem like a ridiculously good little package. One point of comparison for me are Soulblight Gravelords Fell Bats: 14" flying move, 75 points and basically no staying power or damage output, but people still want to run a unit or two of them just to have counterplay to Unleash Hell.

Now, Gyrocopters also have no staying power, but they do have a 16" flying move and some actual offensive presence against hordes. Plus even a little once-per-game mortal wound bomb. And since they are elite now they can Unleash Hell or Redeploy if you want them to.

I think they also make pretty nice companion units for infantry blocks. Stick one next to your Phoenix Guard or Greatswords and you get a decent Unleash Hell reaction without having to run a gunline.

At first I thought they lost some viability after the 3.0 reinforcement changes (you can now only run them in squads of 2), but I really like them as one-model utility units now.

I like them as like you said a little companion unit. One gyrocopter sitting with a frostfire phoenix or a big block of vindicators or ironbreakers makes it difficult to charge them with a tarpit because of how damage they will take coming in. Definitely decent

[Belathor]

I am here with a list I think is quite competitive and I think might be my nashcon list I am not sure yet. I am also here to stan gotrek in the current meta

hammerhall

 

Gotrek

ghur battlemage

runelord

castellant

celestial hurricanum

with amulet

 

15 vindicators (new stormcast spear boys)

30 ironbreakers can alternatively be 6 demigryphs for offense but these are tankier

10 free guild guard x2 you can do dreadspears i only do this because all my models are dwarfs and its easy to make them sword and board

 

so gotrek with the battle mage and the hammerhall spell can be at +3 to run and charge with flying so turn 1 he auto runs 6 moving 13” flying up the center of the board.

 

he can kill archaon and nagash and really brawl morathi and all those lists shove those pieces to the center objective. It doesn’t matter he’s slow we just go duel them with our cheap mode who trades then we just beat their weaker army.

 

 I think daughters is the only hard matchup because bow snakes are scary

 

 

then 2+ save vindicators who hit harder and cheaper than a block of greatswords easy pickup

[NauticalSoup]

3 hours ago, Belathor said:

then 2+ save vindicators who hit harder and cheaper than a block of greatswords easy pickup

There's no way - 25mm bases can fight two ranks deep always and can squeeze in more frontage. Even with the spears, the greatswords will get more attacks in - significantly more depending on the terrain. Remember also that a single greatsword hits HARDER than a single Vindictor, and if there's a hero  they go from 'harder' to 'much harder'. Their mortal wounds are in addition to their base damage rather than in substitution. The Vindictor reach will only compensate for their colossal bases, it won't guarantee they can all fight and even when they can, 15 Vindictors doesn't hit very hard.

10 greatswords inflict 12 and change wounds before armor with no general

5 vindictors inflict 5 against same, including MW generation for both.

Even if we account for the greatswords added points cost, and even if we refuse to bring a freeguild general, there's no world where vindictors hit even close to as hard - I mean your 15 vindictors IF they can all fight -barely- beat out just the first ten greatswords.

Edited July 13, 2021 by NauticalSoup

[SentinelGuy]

On 7/10/2021 at 10:04 PM, Exploder said:

I'm looking into getting into AoS for third edition and CoS is one of the factions I'm considering, I love the idea of a magic and technology faction and my idea for it would be a magic heavy army consisting of battlemages, celestial hurricanum/luminark, phoenixies, endless spells, (LRL stuff like Teclis or something else if I'd go the settlers gain route) (maybe stormcast wizard since the comet looks so much fun) and for tech part it would be stuff like outriders with grenade launchers, handgunners, steam tanks, gyrobombers and artillery.

I dunno which city would be the best for this idea, the phoenix city looks good, hallowheart is probably the best, settlers gain looks good since I'm up for LRL stuff, the city that makes grenade launcher outriders battleline also looks very appealing, if I could make like a very mobile army of them + luminarks/celestial hurricanums and maybe gyrobombers/phoenixes that sounds very fun.

What do you guys think? Think CoS with the way I envision them be the faction for me?

Unfortunately, you can't use the comet in CoS. Allied and coalition forces cannot take their endless spells. You could in the previous edition, but they've changed the rule.

Edited July 13, 2021 by SentinelGuy

[Morathi is my Goddess]

Can you point me to the rule which restricts it for Coalition?

[Marcvs]

8 minutes ago, Morathi is my Goddess said:

Can you point me to the rule which restricts it for Coalition?

Core rules faq https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/u7QSQCYGoqZ6e4TL.pdf

Under 27.1

[Morathi is my Goddess]

Thanks, that's a shame

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

Coalition really takes away the flavor of themed cities. What a shame

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

15 hours ago, SentinelGuy said:

Unfortunately, you can't use the comet in CoS. Allied and coalition forces cannot take their endless spells. You could in the previous edition, but they've changed the rule.

It's too bad, too. Cities has a tool to reliably dispel the Comet before your own hero phase, so that you could get a chance to cast it every round: You can just shoot it with Doralia (or Galen I suppose) ven Denst. I guess it's still an option for Stormcast through allies/Stromkeep coalition units.

[Marcvs]

53 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

It's too bad, too. Cities has a tool to reliably dispel the Comet before your own hero phase, so that you could get a chance to cast it every round: You can just shoot it with Doralia (or Galen I suppose) ven Denst. I guess it's still an option for Stormcast through allies/Stromkeep coalition units.

You don't really need that as you can dispel it in your opponent's hero phase (unless you get a double turn ofc) and recast it in yours

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Marcvs said:

You don't really need that as you can dispel it in your opponent's hero phase (unless you get a double turn ofc) and recast it in yours

I somehow had it in my head that you could only dispel endless spells in your own hero phase, probably because of this bit of text from the core rules:

Quote

[...] in your hero phase, you can use friendly
Wizards to attempt to cast spells (see 19.0), friendly Priests to chant
prayers and attempt to banish invocations (see 20.0), and both to attempt
to dispel endless spells (19.3).

But then 19.3 actually says:

Quote

19.3.2 DISPELLING ENDLESS SPELLS

At the start of the hero phase, each player can attempt to dispel 1 endless
spell with each friendly Wizard and friendly Priest

So thanks for the correction

[DanteAlighieri]

Anyone have any thoughts on Freeguild Guard with the new coherency rules? It certainly made me take a hard look at spears with their 2" reach, especially in units of 20+

In addition, due to the limitations on +/- to hit, are sword/shields as much of an auto-take as before? Are the additional potential attacks from 2" spears (in units of 20 or 30), along with the +1 to wound when charged ability enough to make them viable?

Or does it really just depend on the situation? I was thinking in terms of a more defensive plan, spears could shine as they could amass more attacks while gaining +1 to hit from AOA, Hurricanum, etc, while getting +1 to wound by getting charged. While attaning a 4+ save from all out defense when needed, whereas the sword/shields always have it but can't go to 3+ due to the wording of their ability (If I understand it correctly).

As MSU's I am guessing swords are still better, so my question is more specific to reinforced units (20/30)

Any feedback would be fantastic!

[NauticalSoup]

I'm not sure there's any scenario where Freeguild Guard are worth reinforcing. They were never much of a combat unit in the first place and now burning your reinforcements on a big chaff blob doesn't seem very appealing. 

The +1 save from swords is vastly more useful on a chaff unit than a very incremental increase in their damage potential. And swords can still fight in two ranks anyway.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

16 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

I'm not sure there's any scenario where Freeguild Guard are worth reinforcing. They were never much of a combat unit in the first place and now burning your reinforcements on a big chaff blob doesn't seem very appealing. 

The +1 save from swords is vastly more useful on a chaff unit than a very incremental increase in their damage potential. And swords can still fight in two ranks anyway.

I kind of find Freeguild Guard pretty hard to justify from a pure numbers standpoint at the moment, reinforced or not. They really have awful attack profiles, and that natural 5+ save is not exactly a big selling point either. Dreadspear and Bleakswords just seem better at nearly the same points. And if you are willing to spend more points, there are options that are a LOT better both defensively and offensively.

You won't be at a huge disadvantage if you want to run Freeguild Guard for the theme, I guess, but I think they are competitively outclassed at the moment overall.

[Dankboss]

I only use Freeguild Guard in 10s as screens and objective holders. I run 30 Greatswords protected by a Luminark as my main infantry unit. Really good as a mid-field objective holder and will annihilate almost everything that engages them. Much easier to protect now thanks to easy +1 saves and Rally. Ideally they'll be at -1 to hit, +1 save and 6+ ward, since they don't need +1 to hit thanks to a General being nearby.

[Howdyhedberg]

On 7/20/2021 at 2:13 PM, Dankboss said:

I only use Freeguild Guard in 10s as screens and objective holders. I run 30 Greatswords protected by a Luminark as my main infantry unit. Really good as a mid-field objective holder and will annihilate almost everything that engages them. Much easier to protect now thanks to easy +1 saves and Rally. Ideally they'll be at -1 to hit, +1 save and 6+ ward, since they don't need +1 to hit thanks to a General being nearby.

how do you get -1 to hit?

[Marcvs]

2 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

how do you get -1 to hit?

Pha's protection (warscroll spell for white wizard) I presume

[Dankboss]

Correct. Since I only have one cast in this build it's either Mystic Shield or Pha's Protection, depending on which is better for the situation.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Warhammer Weekly had an episode on Cities of Sigmar last week:

 

Vince had an interesting point about running Freeguild Outriders. At least interesting to me, since I had never previously given them much thought. In AoS 2, it just seemed like if you wanted to run the mounted Freeguild units at all, Pistoliers were the way to go because they got to shoot on the charge plus retreat and charge with the Tempest's Eye battalion.

But Outriders are actually looking kinda good. 110 points is dirt cheap for a cavalry unit. They are super mobile with run and shoot as well as +1 to run on a 12" move. Their ranged profile looks bad at first (1d3 5+/3+/-1/1), but is actually pretty workable, especially for their points. They get +1 attack if they are not within 3" of any enemies (easy to do because they also get retreat and shoot), and buffing them up to at least 4+/3+ is fairly trivial.

They are very synergistic with the Tempest's Eye allegiance abilities, where they get another +1 to run, become battleline and possibly get +1 to wound from your command trait.

I'm kinda liking these guys at 110 points. You could even run a unit of 10 for easier buff stacking and not lose any efficiency from coherency since they are mainly a ranged unit.

[Frowny]

I can see them being interesting as move blockers as well. 17+d6 on turn one in tempests eye and stretched out end to end could block a lot of board. They could be 3 inches ahead of the enemies front line on t1 in many deployments, limiting your opponent to only 3 inches of forward movement for non flying models. Sure, they will die, but you've hopefully used that time to gain a board advantage or objective advantage. If you put another unit behind, you could even shoot something when your front unit is charged. They even get to do a little incidental damage shooting something before they die.

For a fast screen, doesn't seem terrible

[Arathorn185]

Hey guys simple question does CoS have ang way to ger a move 8+ Character character with is legal for retinues and adjuncts? 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Arathorn185
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