AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

Is taking soulbound garments on your Vlozd less appetizing than the 5+ ward save artifact then?

Not necessarily. Going from a 3+ save to a 2+ save is like going from a 3x mutliplier to 6x on your wounds against rend '-' . It is nice to have your 2+ save always on without needing to rely on spells, command points or the once-per-game Finest Hour. And it allows you to get easy access to "ignore rend -1" by applying another +1 to saves. The ability to actually secure you get that 2+ save against most attacks, even those with rend, is pretty big.

I think both the amulet and Soulbound Garments have the potential to situationally be the better choice. It's kind of hard to determine which one is better overall.

[Liquidsteel]

I think in LoB you look to take both, maybe taking a VLoZD and a Vengorian.

Give one the Garments and the other the Amulet, and you can maybe look to put them in situations to counter both.

A 2+ save that can ignore rend 1 is a nightmare for units that have no or little rend. For example I had a Vengorian Lord use Finest Hour and effectively tank most of a unit of Sisters of Slaughter and only lose 4 wounds, then heal back to full with a comination of the Hunger followed by Heroic Recovery the next turn.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Hey, Deathlords!

I’m planning a new SBGL army and I’m looking for some advice.

I’m primarily driven by story/my lore. The appeal of WH for me is creating my own stories and characters. For my new SBGL army, my main character will be this desiccated, mummified priestess enthroned on a palanquin. I think a great way of representing her on the tabletop would be the Mortis Engine, buffing her acolytes (nearby Necromancers) and emitting storms of Death magic (its missile attack and once-per-game explosion) when enemies draw too near.

—This said, are there any synergies with the Mortis Engine in the new tome?

—Any ways to boost its output, its power, or its value?

—Any tactical uses to get the most out of it?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can share. 🦇 

Edit: It’s a real shame there isn’t a Hero/Leader equivalent, perhaps a mount for a Necromancer. The Coven Throne/Palanquin aren’t the same and it would be the icing on the cake to be able to pop an artefact or command trait onto her. Alas!

Edited July 9, 2021 by The Brotherhood of Necros

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

Hey, Deathlords!

I’m planning a new SBGL army and I’m looking for some advice.

I’m primarily driven by story/my lore. The appeal of WH for me is creating my own stories and characters. For my new SBGL army, my main character will be this desiccated, mummified priestess enthroned on a palanquin. I think a great way of representing her on the tabletop would be the Mortis Engine, buffing her acolytes (nearby Necromancers) and emitting storms of Death magic (its missile attack and once-per-game explosion) when enemies draw too near.

—This said, are there any synergies with the Mortis Engine in the new tome?

—Any ways to boost its output, its power, or its value?

—Any tactical uses to get the most out of it?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can share. 🦇 

Edit: It’s a real shame there isn’t a Hero/Leader equivalent, perhaps a mount for a Necromancer. The Coven Throne/Palanquin aren’t the same and it would be the icing on the cake to be able to pop an artefact or command trait onto her. Alas!

This is a tricky one. I also have a Mortis Engine conversion I really love and would like to see on the table more often. But it's still frequently the first model that gets cut from my lists, I am sad to say.

The Mortis Engine would be much better if it had any of the keywords MONSTER, HERO, WIZARD or TOTEM. It's a buff wagon, essentially, but it only really provides +1 to cast (which you could also get for 80 points from a Corpse Cart). Apart from that, it really only has it's mortal wound aura and once-per-game bomb (which does not even work against other DEATH armies). In melee, it basically just adds 2 extra mortals or so, and between that and being fairly squishy, my instinct would be to keep it out of melee as much as possible.

I have not looked into the viability of this in Gravelords, but in Legions of Nagash there used to be a semi-joke list named the Fourtis Engine, where you just bring for Mortis Engines and spam mortal wounds. However, in LoN the mortal wound bomb still had a chance to heal your own units, so it was probably a bit better at the time. In any case, I don't think that's the kind of list you are going for.

If I were you, I'd compromize my vision a bit and use the Coven Throne instead. That unit is a proper support piece that can do a lot for an army if you build around it. On a modeling level, it's just a boss lady and two handmaidens on a Mortis Engine, so I think it's workable for what you are planning.

I suppose the Palanquin is another option, and it even retains the mortal wound aura of the Engine. But it seems to me like it's the worst of the three build options. I would take the Mortis Engine over the Palanquin any day.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

44 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

This is a tricky one. I also have a Mortis Engine conversion I really love and would like to see on the table more often. But it's still frequently the first model that gets cut from my lists, I am sad to say.

The Mortis Engine would be much better if it had any of the keywords MONSTER, HERO, WIZARD or TOTEM. It's a buff wagon, essentially, but it only really provides +1 to cast (which you could also get for 80 points from a Corpse Cart). Apart from that, it really only has it's mortal wound aura and once-per-game bomb (which does not even work against other DEATH armies). In melee, it basically just adds 2 extra mortals or so, and between that and being fairly squishy, my instinct would be to keep it out of melee as much as possible.

I have not looked into the viability of this in Gravelords, but in Legions of Nagash there used to be a semi-joke list named the Fourtis Engine, where you just bring for Mortis Engines and spam mortal wounds. However, in LoN the mortal wound bomb still had a chance to heal your own units, so it was probably a bit better at the time. In any case, I don't think that's the kind of list you are going for.

If I were you, I'd compromize my vision a bit and use the Coven Throne instead. That unit is a proper support piece that can do a lot for an army if you build around it. On a modeling level, it's just a boss lady and two handmaidens on a Mortis Engine, so I think it's workable for what you are planning.

I suppose the Palanquin is another option, and it even retains the mortal wound aura of the Engine. But it seems to me like it's the worst of the three build options. I would take the Mortis Engine over the Palanquin any day.

Hey Neil, thanks for this. While it’s not the great news I wanted to hear, it does make a lot of sense.

If I did compromise and went for the Coven Throne, what synergies exist around that?

My plan is to have a solid core of Engine (now Throne) surrounded by a handful of Necromancers with the +2 cast Claw, the +1 cast Corpse Cart and two blocks of 20 Skellies, with either flank being much faster (or ambushing) Vargheists, Blood-born, wolves, bats etc.

Edited July 9, 2021 by The Brotherhood of Necros

[Obeisance]

So people, wearsy your favourite combos with SB?

How are you handling Redeploy? Unleash Hell?

Tricks and tips for using pile in six?

[Liquidsteel]

I'm enjoying having a unit of Zombies and my Grave Guard deployed in the grave.

Turn 1 pop them out on an objective, with the Grave Guard screened by the Zombies, sitting 2.5" away.

You then run the Corpse Cart with Balefire Brazier up behind.

If the opponent engages, they are -1 Wound, and when/if they clear your screen, your Grave Guard go after and destroy their unit. The Grave Guard are then protected by the -1 Wound bubble for the next turn.

[Warbossironteef]

2 hours ago, Obeisance said:

So people, wearsy your favourite combos with SB?

How are you handling Redeploy? Unleash Hell?

Tricks and tips for using pile in six?

Belladomma is a good way to put enemy units into combat to prevent redeploy and unleash hell. Portals is a great combo for both her warscroll spells to give you more reach. 

Zombies do a lot. The 6 inch pile in and new rules for pile in allow to you basically wrap your unit around smaller units and move them up the board during the pile in stage. For example so you have 40 and you initial charge has about 3 rows of zombies in base to base. Because that 3rd row is roughly 2 inches away from the closest enemy unit, you only have to end your pile 2 inches away which means you have a lot of freedom of movement with 6 inches of pile in. It's a great warscroll and has a lot of uses.

Obvious combo of Prince V and a super durable VLOZD. Prince V allows your other vamp heroes to fight in hero phase. 

Vyrkos casters can reroll all casts, so if you really want to, you can fish for natural 9's to get double cast on certain spells.

Deathmages spell has some great anti-movement spells. You can combo this with Shackles and Shards Of Valagharr for some really annoying anti-movement. Could be powerful if you can buff up your casting.

A lot of things you can do with Skellies. You can string them out and charge, a bunch die when your opponent hits them, then you can summon some back and put them up at the front or maneuver them around as long as you follow the new rules for reviving models. 

Gravesites should be the first thing you think about for any mission/deployment. Not necessarily a "combo" but you need to think about how you can give yourself early game and late game options and also give yourself enough room to pop up zombies. 

Once thing to use gravesites for is to make your chaff more mobile. For example, you know you'll have 20 man unit of zombies in the grave. Place one gravesite close the center of the board, roughly 18 inches from your deployment, depending on the mission. This gives you the option to turn 1 move your VLOZD or Prince V up the board and then at the end of the movement phase summon 20 zombies in front to act as a screen. I think this is an important skill to learn as a SBGL player.

 

Those are some just on the top of my head after a few games. More things to learn and think about than that though!

This is the list I'm running atm. It's probably not optimal but it uses the models I own and is pretty good! 2 drop.

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
LEADERS
Prince Vhordrai (455)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Belladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Gorslav the Gravekeeper (75) in Battle Regiment
UNITS
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115) in Battle Regiment
20 x Deadwalker Zombies (115) in Battle Regiment
10 x Dire Wolves (135) in Battle Regiment
TOTAL:  1990/2000

Edited July 9, 2021 by Warbossironteef

[Essilia]

Trying to put together a list with what I have on the shelf, I came up with this one:

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380) in Warlord
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Pack Alpha
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140) in Warlord
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Necromancer (125) in Warlord
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85) in Warlord
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85) in Battle Regiment
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
20 x Grave Guard (280) in Battle Regiment
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131

 

I prefer to put Amulet of Destiny of VLOZD rather than Sangsyron because my opponents have quite a lot of shooting.

Hesitating between Vyrkos and legion of Night here since Legion of Night could bring Shard of Night and +1 attack command trait to my VLOZD.
 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Essilia

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 hours ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

Hey Neil, thanks for this. While it’s not the great news I wanted to hear, it does make a lot of sense.

If I did compromise and went for the Coven Throne, what synergies exist around that?

My plan is to have a solid core of Engine (now Throne) surrounded by a handful of Necromancers with the +2 cast Claw, the +1 cast Corpse Cart and two blocks of 20 Skellies, with either flank being much faster (or ambushing) Vargheists, Blood-born, wolves, bats etc.

I see the Coven Throne as a unit that is there to support others. It's main draw is the ridiculous command ability. +1 to hit, wound and save will turn any unit capable of doing even decent damage into a ridiculous anvil-blender. It works great with Blood Knights or Grave Guard, possibly also Vargheists, Bloodborn and Nightguard under the right conditions. The warcroll spell of the Throne, Shudder, is also notable, because if you get it off you can use the throne to lock enemy units into combat, but be unable to attack anything. It's just pretty risky with it's short range and high casting value.

The challenge lies with keeping the Throne alive, because a 4+ save at 12 (I think?) wounds does not go super far, and it can't get cover anymore in AoS 3.

 

 

[Honk]

5 hours ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

If I did compromise and went for the Coven Throne, what synergies exist around that?

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

It's main draw is the ridiculous command ability. +1 to hit, wound and save

Model wise you could go crazy with old tomb king mummies… the handmaiden could be tossed for other lackeys.

as stated above, the CT has a very nice buff CA, and the spell is a neat trick in a tight situation. Not really much damage, not really tough, but pretty fast…

[Andalf]

Both of my current lists run a Mortis Engine, it may not be OP but it does a couple things nothing else really can.

List one is very Vyrkos, a vampires and zombie horde with 3/4 wizards and Cogs.  The +1 to cast has been vital to putting down the support where I need, Belladamma becomes almost unbindable on +2/reroll with 3 casts.  I hear corpse carts but haven’t seen one for sale other than eBay all year lol.  I would still take the engine for the 14” fly, it stays with the heroes it needs to and then can support the combat/whirling melee in the centre-board.  It does enough damage to threaten unreinforced stuff and can Unleash Hell after zombies have bogged things down, it’s also a massive base that can make pile-ins difficult. 
 

My 2nd list is all cavalry LoB and uses it for all the same reasons.  It tends to get ignored until it pops off its payload, or takes too much attention off Neferata, the Blood Knights and Vengorian with Coven Throne coming through.  It delivers consistently, and unsupported, which is rare I think in Soulblight.  You might think 2d3 mortals isn’t much, and I do understand the randomness, but there are quite a few more packed into this list that can really help put characters down or at least help keep them down after heroic healing each turn.  I find characters, especially monster heroes living on 2/3 wounds at the end of turns often so far, I’ll keep you posted if the investment is worth it.

Sum it all up, really big fan here.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Andalf

[Malakithe]

12 hours ago, Essilia said:

Trying to put together a list with what I have on the shelf, I came up with this one:

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Vyrkos Dynasty
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380) in Warlord
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Pack Alpha
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140) in Warlord
- Artefact: Sangsyron
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Necromancer (125) in Warlord
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85) in Warlord
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85) in Battle Regiment
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
20 x Grave Guard (280) in Battle Regiment
- Great Wight Blades
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131

 

I prefer to put Amulet of Destiny of VLOZD rather than Sangsyron because my opponents have quite a lot of shooting.

Hesitating between Vyrkos and legion of Night here since Legion of Night could bring Shard of Night and +1 attack command trait to my VLOZD.
 

Def go Night as this list isnt really taking advantage of Vyrkos stuff

[ArchaicArc]

Hey, can someone explain thé Dragged Down and Torn Apart rule for zombies to me please? Can they just walk into combat without charging? Like if the move up within 6 during the movement phase, can they then activate and pile-in in the combat phase? To avoid « overwatch » etc. Thanks!

[Honk]

11 minutes ago, ArchaicArc said:

Can they just walk into combat without charging?

That’s why they are great…

Even after retreating or running

[Honk]

11 minutes ago, ArchaicArc said:

Can they just walk into combat without charging?

That’s why they are great…

Even after retreating or running

[JackStreicher]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:56 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I see the Coven Throne as a unit that is there to support others. It's main draw is the ridiculous command ability. +1 to hit, wound and save will turn any unit capable of doing even decent damage into a ridiculous anvil-blender. It works great with Blood Knights or Grave Guard, possibly also Vargheists, Bloodborn and Nightguard under the right conditions. The warcroll spell of the Throne, Shudder, is also notable, because if you get it off you can use the throne to lock enemy units into combat, but be unable to attack anything. It's just pretty risky with it's short range and high casting value.

The challenge lies with keeping the Throne alive, because a 4+ save at 12 (I think?) wounds does not go super far, and it can't get cover anymore in AoS 3.

 

 

Sadly the throne is overcosted by a lot. Apart from buffing and eating CP while having only one spell it does nothing in the shooting phase and the combat phase. 320 pts for a command ability carrier is well over 50 pts too much.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Sadly the throne is overcosted by a lot. Apart from buffing and eating CP while having only one spell it does nothing in the shooting phase and the combat phase. 320 pts for a command ability carrier is well over 50 pts too much.

That's probably true, but I think it's OK as a pet unit. It definitely allows for satisfying mega buff bombs with its command ability, even if it is ultimately too expensive for serious competitive play.

[JackStreicher]

I just had a thought.

The Vyrkos were created by a Wolf-y godbeast, right? In the end times The First god of humans, (Wolf and hunt god) and Patron god of Middenheim Ulfric, took possession of a human captain and fought alongside vampires and all of the survivors until the bitter end.

Would be cool if he was reborn in a slightly twisted manner in Shyish.  * and created the Vyrkos. Their somewhat Slavic Design would fit as well.

Edited July 11, 2021 by JackStreicher

[shinros]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I just had a thought.

The Vyrkos were created by a Wolf-y godbeast, right? In the end times The First god of humans, (Wolf and hunt god) and Patron god of Middenheim Ulfric, took possession of a human captain and fought alongside vampires and all of the survivors until the bitter end.

Would be cool if he was reborn in a slightly twisted manner in Shyish.  * and created the Vyrkos. Their somewhat Slavic Design would fit as well.

This is why I love the bloodline, the mystery around them. Here is my theory. 

In the white dwarf they mention that hrunspuul might just be nagash in another guise, it's more or less a mystery. To me it would be strange for Nagash to have control over Vyrkos vampires if they were completely unrelated to him. My personal theory that Nagash has bought hrunspuul to heel, possibly serves nagash as a sort of Cerberus figure or used his blood to make the Vyrkos. 

Honestly I sort of fancy the idea that if Vyrkos was an experiment by Nagash, they might be vampires as his envisions them to be, predators who dominate the living than dressing up and pretending they're mortal, like legion of blood and Night to some extent. Because in Age of Sigmar, technically Vyrkos is the only "new" bloodline, the rest of the vampires are children of Mannfred and Neferata, who all change or mutate depending on how they live, or where they live in the realms. Then these vampires form dynasties. 

Personally I don't think they have any relation to Ulric. Though the fact that they separated the vyrkos stuff in the FAQ tells me that GW aren't done with the bloodline anytime soon. Actually, I think they got the most new models out of the Soulblight release I think. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by shinros

[Greybeard86]

Quick question: I do not like zombie wolves, would rather get "normal but ferocious wolves". Does anyone know if the "fenrisian wolves" compare well, size wise, to soublight's new sculpts?

Thanks in advance!

[Liquidsteel]

2 hours ago, Greybeard86 said:

Quick question: I do not like zombie wolves, would rather get "normal but ferocious wolves". Does anyone know if the "fenrisian wolves" compare well, size wise, to soublight's new sculpts?

Thanks in advance!

They're fine, same size as well. I use 10 of them along with 10 new ones. 

[Greybeard86]

Perfect, thanks! I was thinking of adding a variation to my planned Bretonnia / blood knights conversion based on wolves. My main issue is that I do not like the zombie wolves, so I'll use the fenrisian then.

I assume someone has done a hero hammer + wolves list already?

Belladona + radukar beast + ??? + wolves + maybe bats? I really dislike Vhordrai (as a model), so trying to avoid him.

[Frowny]

Fenrisian wolves work great and are indeed the right size and look.

For hero hammer, mannfred, the Avengori lord's, and VLZODs are all great. It's definitely doable.

 

[Greybeard86]

14 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Fenrisian wolves work great and are indeed the right size and look.

For hero hammer, mannfred, the Avengori lord's, and VLZODs are all great. It's definitely doable.

 

And without them? Something more Vykros heavy, with a concession for Avengori. I just don't like the current zombie / bonny dragon or similar based sculpts. Thanks for indulging me!