AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, Doko said:

In general im sure this book gonna be worse in competitive than our old book that is a shame because we are almost in the botton of win rate tables allready.

Wether a book performs well is heavily influenced by how easily scored their faction battle tactics are.

where did you see all the warscrolls?

[Doko]

We have every scroll allready,only missing the thrones and vengolorian lord that i dont have any hope.

Vengolorian gonna have i guess same stats than new lauka vai but his damage continue being very low for his points

 

The 3 thrones i guess gonna have deleted the ca as every ca of our book, i only hope in return get something great but seeing how neferata\manfred\radukar got shafted i havent any hope for them

Edited April 6, 2023 by Doko

[JackStreicher]

Just now, Doko said:

We have every scroll allready,only missing the thrones and vengolorian lord that i dont have any hope.

Vengolorian gonna have i guess same stats than new lauka vai but his damage continue being very low for his points

 

The 3 thrones i guess gonna have deleted the ca as every ca of our book, i only hope in return get something great but seeing how neferata\manfred\radukar got shafted i have any hope for them

I sadly have to agree.

 

I‘d like to know the stats of Korsagi Nightguards, the Vargskyr and the Vyrkos Bloodborn though.

[Doko]

Oh sorry i forgot these units,i never buy warbands,cursed city etc models so i ignore their scrolls and i forgot even that they are in oir book sorry.

Also cado isnt leaked but i guess he wont have any change

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

We have every scroll allready,only missing the thrones and vengolorian lord that i dont have any hope.

Where have you seen the VLoZD? That's one I've been eager to find, but I only see Prince Vhordrai.

 

I'm not into all the doom and gloom going around, though. This is fine. They changed some stuff. They took some stuff out, added some new stuff, tweaked some other stuff. Is it the same? No, absolutely not. But it's not the sky falling. And some of the statements I've seen in this thread are straight up wrong. Neferata looks substantially better than before, for example. I played her a lot, and I am really excited about the changes.

[Sception]

corpse cart mortals aura on 6s to wound instead of to hit does dramatically reduce my assessment of zombies in the new book. 😛

I don't know, overall I'm still ok, but I may mood may be lifted unfairly by my general positive response to the OBR leaks.  A lot of their scrolls are over-pointed & will need to come down, but pretty much everything unit is cool.

 

As for people being mad about the vamp lord on foot not being a unit blender, I'm not surprised, people have been mad about this since literal day one of AoS, but also since literal day 1 of AoS GW has made abundantly clear that they do not want foot heroes beating units in melee single handed.  In every single battletome foot heroes are there for support heroes and maybe a couple extra points of damage thrown into a desperate combat.  That's just the game AoS is.  Units can be there to fight.  Monsters (including monster-riding heroes) can be there to fight.  Foot heroes & cav heroes are support units.  And as a support unit, I really like the vamp lord.

Pick a summonable unit, +1 attack in melee.  Every combat.  Stacks with other combat phase buffs.  Can't be negated by things that negate command abilities, because it isn't one.  If you have two vampire lords in your army, each can buff a units attacks, because it's not a command ability.  This is a huge buff over the current vamp lord, and for this his points went down by 10.

[TechnoVampire]

Depending on the VLOZD warscroll I’m thinking I’m going to attempt a 2 x dragon + blood knight Kastelai list and lean into the Kastelai buffs and Vhordrias ability:

Vhordria: 470

VLOZD general: 440

4 x blood knights: 920

2 x deathrattle skeletons (either as screens or a block of one): 170

2000 points. 

not very versatile or technical, but could be fast and hit hard with buffs stacking up quickly (plus I have all the models 😋)

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I can see arguments for 2x10 or 1x20 Deathrattle now. Both seem like they'd have their uses. And while it may be having played so much SBGL during the Bounty Hunters season, but 1x20 seemed like a trap before this.

[TechnoVampire]

1 minute ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I can see arguments for 2x10 or 1x20 Deathrattle now. Both seem like they'd have their uses. And while it may be having played so much SBGL during the Bounty Hunters season, but 1x20 seemed like a trap before this.

I feel like as long as they can survive the initial punch, with the new ability 1 x 20 could be a pretty efficient tar-pit unit, and without bounty hunters running rampage that will be much easier than before.  

[Malakithe]

Ive always preferred skellies over zombies so im okay with this

[Leshoyadut]

Reading the changes and seeing people be all doom and gloom about it both here and on Facebook makes me wonder if I'm reading the same leaks as everyone else. While some things definitely got a nerf (zombies without a corpse cart, greatweapon grave guard damage), a lot of things got changed to be a) more consistent, b) more powerful, or c) both.

Neferata in Legion of Blood is a real monster, Manny still seems solid and can still teleport when in LoN, Lauka Vai and Vengorian Lords both got buffed, a lot of the subfaction traits, CTs and artefacts are better than they were (or mostly a wash at worst). The Hunger got three noticeable changes, all of which for the better, imo: it's instant, doesn't require you to kill a model, and is based on damage you dealt instead of a d3/d6. Vargheists got hangry. Zombies lost some damage on attack, but became painful to attack. A bunch of warscroll CAs just got turned into either passive always-on effects (like Neferata's Twilight's Allure) or into once-per-turn-per-unit abilities (like the Vampire Lord's +1 attacks). A lot of great stuff is in there that, in my opinion, far makes up for the losses.

While some of the losses will be felt because they could be fun tricks to use, the new stuff just looks good. Honestly, the reaction to this book feels a lot like the reaction to the current book, which turned out to be pretty solid for a while after it came out. It's showing its age now, for sure, but it was actually good until the Bounty Hunters attacked until design improvements/power creep passed it by, which is always going to happen eventually.

[JackStreicher]

43 minutes ago, Leshoyadut said:

Reading the changes and seeing people be all doom and gloom about it both here and on Facebook makes me wonder if I'm reading the same leaks as everyone else. While some things definitely got a nerf (zombies without a corpse cart, greatweapon grave guard damage), a lot of things got changed to be a) more consistent, b) more powerful, or c) both.

Neferata in Legion of Blood is a real monster, Manny still seems solid and can still teleport when in LoN, Lauka Vai and Vengorian Lords both got buffed, a lot of the subfaction traits, CTs and artefacts are better than they were (or mostly a wash at worst). The Hunger got three noticeable changes, all of which for the better, imo: it's instant, doesn't require you to kill a model, and is based on damage you dealt instead of a d3/d6. Vargheists got hangry. Zombies lost some damage on attack, but became painful to attack. A bunch of warscroll CAs just got turned into either passive always-on effects (like Neferata's Twilight's Allure) or into once-per-turn-per-unit abilities (like the Vampire Lord's +1 attacks). A lot of great stuff is in there that, in my opinion, far makes up for the losses.

While some of the losses will be felt because they could be fun tricks to use, the new stuff just looks good. Honestly, the reaction to this book feels a lot like the reaction to the current book, which turned out to be pretty solid for a while after it came out. It's showing its age now, for sure, but it was actually good until the Bounty Hunters attacked until design improvements/power creep passed it by, which is always going to happen eventually.

Overall I feel like some Warscrolls are way too overpriced.

apart from that I am simply sad about some changes that would’ve been a cheap home run.

The only really bad unit is Nagash and the Corpse Cart.

 

with which update did they remove the 5-point increments? OBR & SBGL were clearly written before that

Edited April 7, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Leshoyadut said:

Reading the changes and seeing people be all doom and gloom about it both here and on Facebook makes me wonder if I'm reading the same leaks as everyone else. While some things definitely got a nerf (zombies without a corpse cart, greatweapon grave guard damage), a lot of things got changed to be a) more consistent, b) more powerful, or c) both.

Neferata in Legion of Blood is a real monster, Manny still seems solid and can still teleport when in LoN, Lauka Vai and Vengorian Lords both got buffed, a lot of the subfaction traits, CTs and artefacts are better than they were (or mostly a wash at worst). The Hunger got three noticeable changes, all of which for the better, imo: it's instant, doesn't require you to kill a model, and is based on damage you dealt instead of a d3/d6. Vargheists got hangry. Zombies lost some damage on attack, but became painful to attack. A bunch of warscroll CAs just got turned into either passive always-on effects (like Neferata's Twilight's Allure) or into once-per-turn-per-unit abilities (like the Vampire Lord's +1 attacks). A lot of great stuff is in there that, in my opinion, far makes up for the losses.

While some of the losses will be felt because they could be fun tricks to use, the new stuff just looks good. Honestly, the reaction to this book feels a lot like the reaction to the current book, which turned out to be pretty solid for a while after it came out. It's showing its age now, for sure, but it was actually good until the Bounty Hunters attacked until design improvements/power creep passed it by, which is always going to happen eventually.

I agree, a lot of the changes actually look pretty solid to me because of the increased consistency. Everyone remember, a new book always looks the worst immediately on release, when you see everything that was lost but don't yet really understand all the new stuff you have gained.

I have not yet seen all the warscrolls (only bad pictures of a few of them), but there are a few I like a lot. Skeletons finally work, which is great. Direwolves got a lot better with that 6" pile-in. Zombies got worse, but it feels like their role is now more appropriate (they are no longer an absurd mortal wounds hammer). A cheap 20 model tarpit that kicks back mortals is very good in its own right.

EDIT: Also, I am running Black Knights this edition. Summonable, 18" threat range, auto-charge and deal significant charge mortals. I don't know how anyone can read that warscroll and think they have no role. They have a great charge-> mortals->tarpit->resurrect loop going on.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[MotherGoose]

7 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Where have you seen the VLoZD? That's one I've been eager to find, but I only see Prince Vhordrai.

 

I'm not into all the doom and gloom going around, though. This is fine. They changed some stuff. They took some stuff out, added some new stuff, tweaked some other stuff. Is it the same? No, absolutely not. But it's not the sky falling. And some of the statements I've seen in this thread are straight up wrong. Neferata looks substantially better than before, for example. I played her a lot, and I am really excited about the changes.

She also benefits from her allegiance now so gets +1 to cast and +1 attack

[MotherGoose]

25 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I agree, a lot of the changes actually look pretty solid to me because of the increased consistency. Everyone remember, a new book always looks the worst immediately on release, when you see everything that was lost but don't yet really understand all the new stuff you have gained.

I have not yet seen all the warscrolls (only bad pictures of a few of them), but there are a few I like a lot. Skeletons finally work, which is great. Direwolves got a lot better with that 6" pile-in. Zombies got worse, but it feels like their role is now more appropriate (they are no longer an absurd mortal wounds hammer). A cheap 20 model tarpit that kicks back mortals is very good in its own right.

EDIT: Also, I am running Black Knights this edition. Summonable, 18" threat range, auto-charge and deal significant charge mortals. I don't know how anyone can read that warscroll and think they have no role. They have a great charge-> mortals->tarpit->resurrect loop going on.

King on steed also makes them do mortals on 4s, is better in combat himself and is summonable too!

[Jaskier]

Some of the early reactions to this book are hyperbolic and, just reading this thread, many are outright wrong. Anyone who thinks Dire Wolves are "deleted" are kidding themselves, it's a giant blob of wounds that you can now easily and cheaply give a 5++ to and pin things in place, and they now resurrect easier, heal easier and can even be taken above their starting size. Vrykos lists will love these. Then stuff like Neferata got a straight damage buff, no longer need to pay a CP for their -1 to-hit aura, and now benefit from the Legion of Blood rules, meaning she's always got either +1 to cast/unbind/dispel or +1 attack. Mannfred's weaker but his strike first on the charge and ability to counter-charge and give stuff like Grave Guard +1 attack make him really techy and actually better in some cases, and then Blood Knights have an incredible mortal wound output - go check the wording of the Riders of Ruin rule, you'll see what I mean. Also, anyone who looks at a 14w 3+ 6++ profile that can heal 6 wounds every time it fights the same way Glutos does and think it's made of paper is just flat out wrong. 

[MotherGoose]

I love the new allegiance abilities and unique actions. I'm disappointed with a few things (reroll casts gone, radukar only dropping 25 points and losing his summon and +1 attack bubble for everyone) but overall I'm much happier with the whole book and the buffs we got.

Some stuff is straight up awesome - coven throne spell that does d3 mortals to a hero with 6 or less wounds and if they die you add a vampire lord to your army!? Yes please. So flavourful.

Mortis engine now has 18 inch range mortals and heals d3+4 models back if they're near a gravesite, amazing.

Neferata having innate +1 to cast and +1 attack? Great. Mannfreds Legion actually having good abilities? Sick. Vyrkos lost rerolls but became what they sort of felt like they should be.

All our spells are great, items and traits are all great (not a fan of the once per battle avengorri ones).

Multiple ways of getting 5+ ward, commands that became abilities, it's all brilliant in my opinion.

The hunger being on all vamps is amazing, including bats - who are now fast cheap chaff that heal themselves and can actually do damage.

Bella lost rerolls yea but now she has a 24 inch bubble of 6s splitting, a spell that still turns people into wolves but now she can add d3 models to that unit with a heroic action.

Vlozd got much more reliable shooting, gained a load of monstrous actions depending which subfaction you choose, got a better spell and gained 2 wounds with much better healing capability.

Blood knights can move/retreat/charge/pile in over models 3 or less wounds and do damage to them, gained range and rend.

Wight kings and some others being summonable is just outright awesome.

I'd argue on first look that all of our warscrolls are viable now. As are all of the legions, they're all great in their own way and all feel very different. Also 3+ ethereal 16 wound vlozd that heals up to 6 from combat each turn in Legion of blood looks a little spicy...

The one thing I hate however is they are locking warscroll abilities to legions now.

I think it's so different and surprisingly so that most people's kneejerk reaction is to look at everything we've lost and how we used to play, rather than see new things and new ways of playing.

Edited April 7, 2023 by MotherGoose

[AHexInScarletRed]

16 minutes ago, MotherGoose said:

I love the new allegiance abilities and unique actions. I'm disappointed with a few things (reroll casts gone, radukar only dropping 25 points and losing his summon and +1 attack bubble for everyone) but overall I'm much happier with the whole book and the buffs we got.

Some stuff is straight up awesome - coven throne spell that does d3 mortals to a hero with 6 or less wounds and if they die you add a vampire lord to your army!? Yes please. So flavourful.

Mortis engine now has 18 inch range mortals and heals d3+4 models back if they're near a gravesite, amazing.

Neferata having innate +1 to cast and +1 attack? Great. Mannfreds Legion actually having good abilities? Sick. Vyrkos lost rerolls but became what they sort of felt like they should be.

All our spells are great, items and traits are all great (not a fan of the once per battle avengorri ones).

Multiple ways of getting 5+ ward, commands that became abilities, it's all brilliant in my opinion.

The hunger being on all vamps is amazing, including bats - who are now fast cheap chaff that heal themselves and can actually do damage.

Bella lost rerolls yea but now she has a 24 inch bubble of 6s splitting, a spell that still turns people into wolves but now she can add d3 models to that unit with a heroic action.

Vlozd got much more reliable shooting, gained a load of monstrous actions depending which subfaction you choose, got a better spell and gained 2 wounds with much better healing capability.

Blood knights can move/retreat/charge/pile in over models 3 or less wounds and do damage to them, gained range and rend.

Wight kings and some others being summonable is just outright awesome.

I'd argue on first look that all of our warscrolls are viable now. As are all of the legions, they're all great in their own way and all feel very different. Also 3+ ethereal 16 wound vlozd that heals up to 6 from combat each turn in Legion of blood looks a little spicy...

The one thing I hate however is they are locking warcsroll abilities to legions now.

Heya, where did you see the Coven Throne warscroll? Thanksie! 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

Heya, where did you see the Coven Throne warscroll? Thanksie! 

Everything is out on discord apparently, but nobody took the time to upload it on imgur etc. yet.

[MotherGoose]

3 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

Heya, where did you see the Coven Throne warscroll? Thanksie! 

https://imgur.io/a/kSEJq0Y

[JackStreicher]

Edit: With the wight king those BK are solid.

Edited April 7, 2023 by JackStreicher

[MotherGoose]

Just now, JackStreicher said:

I need a link to the missing Warscrolls! ^^

Look at the post above yours 😄

[JerekKruger]

12 hours ago, Craze said:

Named Vyrkos heroes being able to get Command Traits and Artifacts is also something very interesting.

I hope this isn't a mistake on GW's part, and is instead a consequence of there being approximately a million banned Vyrkos heroes.

[JackStreicher]

All Wight kings are summonable! That makes them the biggest winners of the book ❤️

Cado Ezechiar can become a Vampire of any Bloodline (he simply gets the keyword, since he has no bloodline keyword himself) right?
Would be pretty cool imo. An actual useful Vampire merc.
Pretty sure it will be FaQed because all of a sudden the lore has to be respected again XD

Edited April 7, 2023 by JackStreicher

[MotherGoose]

17 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

I hope this isn't a mistake on GW's part, and is instead a consequence of there being approximately a million banned Vyrkos heroes.

I've got a feeling it's intended but wouldn't be surprised if not. It's worded differently to the spell lore and specifically states 'including unique *vyrkos* units'