Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Sception]

Soulblight gravelords absolutely replaces legion of nagash, and yeah swarms are gone.

That said, there are two reasons to be hopeful for an expansion sooner rather than later.

1) while cursed city is dead, I don't expect the stuff in it to be gone forever.  This in particular offers hope for swarm fans.

2) while mounted vamp is gone for now, I can't imagine it's gone for good.  TBH I'm shocked they didn't try to pass off "paint the blood knight champ differently to be a hero" like they do with all the FEC units.

 

If we do get a relatively quick expansion, it probably won't come with the major allegiance rule revamp (pun intended) I'd like to see, though.  We're probably stuck with the ghost (pun intended) of legions of nagash rather than a proper vampire counts allegiance for at least the duration of 3e.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

I think they will be better as Vyrkos, for a free +1 wound. coven Throne buff is better spent on Blood Knights I think.

Still, Grave Guard are one to watch!

Definitely also a way to go. Vyrkos gets good stuff. Honestly, Legion of Night is in contention, too.

Another point: A list of mostly Grave Guard and Nagash might be workable. In OBR, you sometimes see 60 Mortek and Nagash and in the past 80 Skeletons and Nagash was a thing. Since Grave Guard are better Mortek now this might work out. You might need a good way to fill Battleline, though, if you don't want to bring a Wight King.

However, more likely Nagash will not be competitve at 975 points, though.

[Sception]

6 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

The one thing that is quite a blow is that we can now only heal each summonable unit 1d3 max. Beforehand if you had graves nearby and heroes it was easy to bring back like 5d3 skeletons per turn.

Yeah, there's a lot of talking up how much better grave guard are, but I don't think any of the very real positive changes to their warscroll counterbalance the fact that you used to be able to bring back several d3 of them per hero phase, bring back the entire unit when killed for a CP, and give them like +2, maybe even +3 attacks each with various stacking attack buffs.  And that's before you get to how difficult it will be to keep them wholly within range of the buffs left to them.  I'm just not convinced that Grave Guard in SG will be any stronger than Grave Guard were in LoN once you factor all that in.  We'll see, though.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception

[Raptor_Jesues]

So here's my first list attempt, this is mostly a fun one more than anything else

Kastelai bloodline
2x vengorian lords
coven throne
4x5 bloodknights
3 vargheists
10 dire wolves
extra CP
prismatic palisade
2k points total

i am a bit undecided for relics (the sword, fragment and the shard are very cool, very undecided, opinions?) but the trait is going to be rousing commander

Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[FeralMulan]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Definitely also a way to go. Vyrkos gets good stuff. Honestly, Legion of Night is in contention, too.

Another point: A list of mostly Grave Guard and Nagash might be workable. In OBR, you sometimes see 60 Mortek and Nagash and in the past 80 Skeletons and Nagash was a thing. Since Grave Guard are better Mortek now this might work out. You might need a good way to fill Battleline, though, if you don't want to bring a Wight King.

However, more likely Nagash will not be competitve at 975 points, though.

I think what made Mortek work for that is the easy full reroll saves, which Grave Guard don't have.
And Skeletons could bring back SOOOOO many models... also not possible

Still, might be worth a try?  Add in a Soulscream Bridge for a quick teleport, a Wight King to follow for reroll hits.... Maybe.

[Aren73]

Another good thing about the book: It really challenges you to build a strong list. Nothing is that obvious and list building has some meat to it. 

You may laugh but funnily enough I do actually enjoy playing underdog factions that have it a bit uphill and the list building isn't obvious/broken. 

I'm warming to it. 

 

(Just don't talk to me about the generic vampire lord or "vampire powers" or customisation options or flavour as I don't think I can stop being salty about those)

[Sception]

Nagash, wight king, 3x20 grave guard, bridge, portals is about 2k.  I'm not convinced that's enough on its own.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

I think what made Mortek work for that is the easy full reroll saves, which Grave Guard don't have.
And Skeletons could bring back SOOOOO many models... also not possible

Still, might be worth a try?  Add in a Soulscream Bridge for a quick teleport, a Wight King to follow for reroll hits.... Maybe.

Well we haven't seen the skelli warscroll yet but if the rumour of ressurecting on a 4+ for each kill is true then in say a legion of night list they're reviving 3+d3 + an average of 50% of what they manage to kill with +2 attacks (manny and vamp on foot) and +1 to hit and wound (manny command) so going off the current warscroll is 5x30 so 150 attacks on 2+, 3+ -0 d1 fighting twice with a necro. That's a lotta dice to throw into a horde and even most big monsters/heroes would die. Now this combo does require a minimum of 2 heroes but manny is much harder to kill and vamps are cheap enough to double up on.

[Liquidsteel]

1 hour ago, Sception said:

Pinions explicitly can only affect the caster.  locus does not work with it.

****** hell

[FeralMulan]

12 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

So here's my first list attempt, this is mostly a fun one more than anything else

Kastelai bloodline
2x vengorian lords
coven throne
4x5 bloodknights
3 vargheists
10 dire wolves
extra CP
prismatic palisade
2k points total

i am a bit undecided for relics (the sword, fragment and the shard are very cool, very undecided) but the trait is going to be rousing commander

Your list is about 200 points over as is, but I like the idea.

My imagination has also been fired up a bit, so here is my current list:

Avengoori (-1 to wound for monsters, once per battle boost them to top profile)

Lauka Vai 285
Zombie Dragon Lord 435
Coven Throne 310
Terrorgheist 305
10*Blood Knights 390
2*10 Direwolves 135+135

1995 points. Zombie Dragon is the General (Eye for an Eye) with Breath of the Void, Terrogheist gets the run+charge mutation

Two fronts to fight, the blob of monsters, and the throne with the Blood Knights. Could be decent?

Edited May 13, 2021 by FeralMulan

[Raptor_Jesues]

4 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Your list is about 200 points over as is, but I like the idea.

...

that is just plain unfair, i was only 20 points over <.<
gonna remove the palisade, not going to use it much with such a fast army anyway

Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[FeralMulan]

Just now, Raptor_Jesues said:

that is just plain unfair, i was only 20 points over <.<
gonna remove the palisade, not going to use it much with such a fast army anyway

You sure about those 20 points?

 

Kastelai bloodline
2x vengorian lords 2*280
coven throne 310
4x5 bloodknights 4*195
3 vargheists 155
10 dire wolves 135
extra CP 50
prismatic palisade

 

That is 2185 even without the palisade

[Verminlord]

All the wholly within 12 bubbles are really going to hamper the strength of max unit skellies. All I wanted was a skelly build and for black knights to stay good...

I'm wondering how many CP armies will get each round in 3.0 and if it will be enough for RR 1s from wight kings to ever be worth using

[Sception]

2 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

I'm wondering how many CP armies will get each round in 3.0 and if it will be enough for RR 1s from wight kings to ever be worth using

I sorely doubt it.  Not with the new charge reactions, and especially if the generic command options remain.  Skeletons and grave guard are going to want inspiring presence or reroll charge way more than rr1s, imo.

Such a shame on black knights.  Wouldn't have taken much to make them cool.  Give them the gg's shields and mortals on 6's, make their impact hits one roll per model for a single wound each instead of one roll for d3 wounds regardless of the units size, and that's about it.  maybe bump them up to the same price as grave guard, too, but I'd rather pay more for a unit that does something than pay less for a unit that doesn't.  They're not dire wolves or fell bats.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception

[Dejnar]

11 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Your list is about 200 points over as is, but I like the idea.

My imagination has also been fired up a bit, so here is my current list:

Avengoori (-1 to wound for monsters, once per battle boost them to top profile)

Lauka Vai 285
Zombie Dragon Lord 435
Coven Throne 310
Terrorgheist 305
10*Blood Knights 390
2*10 Direwolves 135+135

1995 points. Zombie Dragon is the General (Eye for an Eye) with Breath of the Void, Terrogheist gets the run+charge mutation

Two fronts to fight, the blob of monsters, and the throne with the Blood Knights. Could be decent?

I may be blind. But can you link the mutation leaks? 

[Raptor_Jesues]

  

4 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

You sure about those 20 points?

 

Kastelai bloodline
2x vengorian lords 2*280 =560
coven throne 310 +560=870
4x5 bloodknights 4*195= 790+870=1650
3 vargheists 155+1650=1805
10 dire wolves 135+1805=1940
extra CP 50+1940= 1990
prismatic palisade

 

That is 2185 even without the palisade

or is it

[Verminlord]

11 minutes ago, Sception said:

I sorely doubt it.  Not with the new charge reactions, and especially if the generic command options remain.  Skeletons and grave guard are going to want inspiring presence or reroll charge way more than rr1s, imo.

I can't understand wight kings getting RR1s as their only ability if that generic command ability is staying, but even so, I can't imagine a more boring combat buff than RR1s 😢

I think there are some good builds in this book, namely vykros and avengori, but I can't help but be dissapointed with deathrattle. Seems like they didn't know what to do with them. Just random bonuses in each bloodline but no effort to give them synergy/Interactions...

Edited May 13, 2021 by Verminlord

[Sception]

8 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

I can't help but be dissapoints with deathrattle. Seems like they didn't know what to do with them. Just random bonuses in each bloodline but no effort to give them synergy/Interactions

That's kind of my feeling.  Graveguard don't seem completely terrible, and there are various, not necessarily stacking buffs for them out there, but if you want mortals on 6's zombies do that cheaper, and are battleline without a wight king general.  I just don't feel a unique or coherent identity for the skeletal subtheme in this book, the way they were the 'buckets of attacks' units in LoN.

I do still want to see what the regular skeletons look like, though.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception

[Nightseer2012]

Anyone have eyes on what the "Legion of Shyish" battalion looks like?  I am going to assume it is one of those super mega battalions of 1-2 of all the other battalions, that no one will ever take because it would be like 4000 points, but I was curious because it was only 60 points by itself. 

Also, hoping the skittles have a decent warscroll.  It doesn't need to be amazing, just plz be *enough*.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Boar said:

You roll number of dice equal to their charge roll! So it's 3,5 MW for average charge

I want to add that Spirit Gale doesn't use "unmodified charge roll" to trigger dmg (like ogres), so it could help us a bit if we are using the using Chronomatic Coggs to move around our troops.

It's not something big, but it will help sometimes with cheap dmg.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

I can't understand wight kings getting RR1s as their only ability if that generic command ability is staying, but even so, I can't imagine a more boring combat buff than RR1s 😢

I think there are some good builds in this book, namely vykros and avengori, but I can't help but be dissapointed with deathrattle. Seems like they didn't know what to do with them. Just random bonuses in each bloodline but no effort to give them synergy/Interactions...

Maybe negative modifiers are much more prevalent in AoS 3, then Legion of Blood might be good. If Skeleton Warriors are good I think Deathrattle are fine overall, but not exciting. It's a shame about the Black Knights and Wight King. I can't see myself ever bringing them except as battalion tax.

On another note, I like the Vyrkos command trait that lets you count for as many models as your wound characteristic for captures. Slap that on a VLoZD and we got our own Frost Lord on Stone Horn. Since the rest of our books is basically no tricks like Mawtribes, we might as well lean into it.

 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

So, as someone who was super hyped for Lumineth and ended up not buying in as player disappointed in what they ended up being in both waves (I am more of a Tyrion fan than Teclis, and found the overfocus on magic to be offputting, even if it is competitively strong), I'm tentatively hyped for Soulblight. Are there a a few disappointing things? Yes, absolutely. I am very unhappy with Black Knights, for example, given my experiences with a very similar profile in S2D (Marauder Horsemen). However, there are plenty of other options. Plenty of options in general, actually. And many of them are decent to good, and more importantly to me, they seem like they will be distinctive and create fun moments on the tabletop.

I'm especially hyped because the subfaction I was most excited for, the Legion of Blood, looks like it will suit my playstyle and preferred units. I am hoping Neferata receives some positive warscroll changes, but if she is about the same as she is now, I've felt she was pretty decent already, just not as durable as I'd like, so I'll still be happy. My biggest point of consternation is not any disappointing rules or warscrolls, but figuring out how to get Nef, VLoZD, and a Coven Throne in the same list without sacrificing model count!

[JackStreicher]

What I'd like to have in this army is:

All Vampires get the Ability of the Kastelei (getting better by killing enemies).
Vampire Lords on foot need 6-7 wounds and 6 attacks to actually be worth anything.
Wight Kings should grant a simple run and charge for deathrattle units - They are their kings and they do nothing!
Give Black Knights the lances back. There was no reason to change them for a worse ability.
Rethink Legion of Night and Legion of Blood - the whole army already has more than enough deepstrike/put into reserve abilities. Legion of Blood is supposed to be sneaky or at least grant a good buff to Deathratte.
Complete Rewrite of the Vampire Lore or switch it with the Deathmages lore.
Split the CC units into smaller increments:
Vargskyr and Vyrkos, Gravekeeper, Gravekeeper and Night Guard, Chamberlain and radukar. Done.
Give us dead vermin as a swarm encompassing bats and rats.

If all of this was corrected this army would be completely amazing: Interesting, not too strong, synergies, you can play with your toys without being punished for it.
 

Edited May 13, 2021 by JackStreicher
spelling

[FeralMulan]

31 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

  

or is it

Lolol I'm an idiot, I messed up my Excel spreadsheet. IGNORE ME, I thought you had Coven Throne in there.

[Gothmaug]

So... Did I miss something? Is there a way to make a deathrattle unit fight in the hero phase (simmilar to Ironjawz Mighty Destroyers)? Because reading the Wight King's command ability, it activates in the hero phase and lasts until the end of that phase only, making it useless under the current rules. SO I guess its a typo OR its referencing a new game mechanic from upcoming third edition?