AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Ravinsild]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

A 4 cast wizard might be overkill with the lack of actual attack spells. In DoT it makes sense cuz there are pew pew spells. Warriors are great I want to use more of them

Well maybe but I have a lot of spells I want to cast. 
 

I want Ghost-Mist to protect me from shooting, I want Levitate on my Varanguard so they can fly over my warriors to charge something, I want Daemonic Strength on my Varanguard and probably Daemonic Speed, I want Mystic Shield going out, I want chaotic conduit to juice up my Chieftan, I want binding damnation to make my fight twice work and they can’t fight back and I want infernal gateway and spite tongue curse going out to deal mortal wounds… also all the endless spells each take a cast… 

[Rors]

7 hours ago, Prawncake said:

Hi all AoS noob here. I started getting into AoS near the end of last year and was immediately drawn to StD. I don't have a huge collection yet but I do want to try put together a reasonably competitive list (but for the most part I have no idea what I'm doing, or what my list may be lacking). I've tried to do as much research as I can and came up with the following list: Would love to hear some thoughts from the veterans on here for recommendations. The idea is to take advantage of the Galecian champions mechanics and go for an objective control list rather than search and destroy. (p.s. I haven't really put much thought into enhancements or grand strategy so if something seems like a bad idea it probably is :

- Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness

  - Subfaction: Host of the Everchosen

  - Grand Strategy: The Day is Ours!

  - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS

Be'lakor (355)

  - General

  - Spells: Binding Damnation, Warp Reality

Chaos Lord (115)

  - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

  - Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel

  - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome

  - Spells: Daemonic Speed, Warp Reality

  - Aspects of the Champion: Stubborn as a Rhinox

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (120)

  - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

  - Spells: Binding Damnation, Warp Reality

  - Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha

BATTLELINE

Chaos Knights (230)

  - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

  - Standard Bearer

  - Hornblower

  - Doom Knight

  - Cursed Lance

Chaos Warriors (440)

  - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

  - Aspiring Champion

  - Murderous Weapon

  - 2 x Hornblower

  - 2 x Standard Bearer

  - Ensorcelled Banner: The Eroding Icon

Chaos Chosen (480)

  - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

  - Exalted Champion

  - 2 x Icon Bearer

  - 2 x Skull Drummer

  - Ensorcelled Banner: The Banner of Rage

Chaos Warriors (220)

  - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

  - Aspiring Champion

  - Hornblower

  - Standard Bearer

  - Murderous Weapon

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Eightfold Doom-sigil (40)

TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

I was thinking of maybe ditching the chaos knights for a gaunt summoner, as I don't feel like the chaos knights do their job as a hammer particularly well beyond their charge. I was also thinking of changing the chosen to mark of tzeench and giving them the tzeench banner instead for the 4+ range ward as I feel they'll be picked off before they can get into combat. The other idea is giving them the slanesh mark and banner to get into combat faster and from further away (turn one charge? )

You really need 6 GCs and a strategy for killing their GCs if you want to go with the day is ours. Nighthaunt or fyreslayers are kind of the benchmark for this.

None of your casters can take warp reality as they're not marked Tzentch.

Doom sigil is an amazing spell but it works best when you have screens that can die and then buff your hammers.

I personally think knights work in 10s with the khorne banner or not at all (or in 5s with nurgle as fast units to pin your opponent into their zone). Hitting on 4s isn't reliable. They'll nuke just about anything with all out attack and the banner though. Alternative to that is demonic power, does the same thing but more risky, it does get around roar though.

Competitively speaking the summoner doesn't show up much. He'll have an easier time this season though if he's on foot. One potential combo would be the GC artifact to let him teleport. Then he could jump across the board and drop a unit somewhere.

 

 

[Malakithe]

11 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Well maybe but I have a lot of spells I want to cast. 
 

I want Ghost-Mist to protect me from shooting, I want Levitate on my Varanguard so they can fly over my warriors to charge something, I want Daemonic Strength on my Varanguard and probably Daemonic Speed, I want Mystic Shield going out, I want chaotic conduit to juice up my Chieftan, I want binding damnation to make my fight twice work and they can’t fight back and I want infernal gateway and spite tongue curse going out to deal mortal wounds… also all the endless spells each take a cast… 

Fair point thats a lot of casting lol

[Bayul]

Has anyone spotted some interesting LVO lists?

[Scruf]

On 1/15/2023 at 6:27 PM, Rors said:

I would assume it's only pile in within 3 unless an FAQ says otherwise. I really doubt that the intended when they wrote it was to allow them to break the normal pile mechanics.

 

Not trying to callout an old post but just wanted to provide clarity on something I recently learned and that's that you can pile in if you're within 3" OR made a charge move. The second part doesn't come up often.

Core Rules 12.1 (emphasis mine):

"A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

 

Simply making a charge allows you to make a pile in move with a unit even if the enemy unit it charged is no longer there. Since Chosen and Varanguard have loadouts with 2" reach weapons, you can pile in towards the nearest unit you're not in combat with and whack them with your 2" range weapons for an effective threat range of 5".

[Ravinsild]

I got destroyed tonight and I just have no answers.

Stormcast Deepstriking Longstrikes, giving +2 to charge rolls and my dispels rolling like ******, teleports anywhere on the board even out of combat and Fulminators.

I’m not even sure if it’s a skill thing, no disrespect, as much as it’s a toolkit thing. 

Lists like this local Eshin list and these Longstrike lists and even Sylvaneth, etc I cannot come up with an answer for. 

If it’s Knights of the Empty Throne and first turn alpha run and still charge… all it takes is a unit of Clanrats bubble wrapping, or Myrmidesh or Protectors… so who clears the screens? Worse yet many of these have deepstrike and/or teleports or both so they can pick when and where to shoot and you have no say. 

I’m sure with certain positioning and lots of little cultists you could probably screen out, but all our stuff is expensive and then what’s hitting them back when they land? Longstrikes have 30”, I know those Eshin are a little shorter but still.

I mean ghost mist sure, apparently prismatic palisade is bad… maybe Tzeentch banner but like tonight I rolled all 1-3’s on my Varanguard MW save so…. Wyldwoods maybe. Standing in terrain for +1 save from cover. All of this just delays the inevitable. Can’t hide in terrain forever or stay in Wyldwoods forever eventually ****** needs to get charged. Idk I’m out of ideas

[ibel]

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I got destroyed tonight and I just have no answers.

So most of the game in this Games is POstion position position.

U cant win with every S2D List as Easy as with other against every list but a) u have enough Screen or b) your Units are durabily enough to stand the first wave.

If u stand there and play a Knight list go for the Turn, charge him, he/she will drop in frotn of u and in his back. Take the First Strike Artefact for ur LOrd on Mount/Karadrake and then activate the Knights after this so u maybe kill a Fulmi or 2. There are always Armys and list with are very very difiicult to win against and other easyer. And lets be serious if u roll ****** (just always 1-3 for ur Varanguards) the game go`s ******

[Holy_Diver]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:32 AM, ibel said:

So most of the game in this Games is postion position position.

For posterity, in case anyone has vision problems.

This is a game of deployment and zoning: as absurd as it is, it is possible to "win the game" already in retrospect, in case one of the two has deployed in the wrong way. Some types of errors are unrecoverable, especially with elite armies.
 

On 2/1/2023 at 5:59 AM, Ravinsild said:

If it’s Knights of the Empty Throne and first turn alpha run and still charge… 

One thing you have to sculpt in your head, always assuming we're talking about a competitive level is that "being able to do something doesn't mean being forced to do it". 
Knights of the Empty Throne is the most mobile sub-faction, even without stoker, but this does not mean that it it doesn't need expendable units. Playing all games thinking of charging in the first round means automatically losing against shrewd players. 

When I played that sub faction I never charged in the first turn, on the contrary, I always preferred to take the field with varanguards and cavalry, behind mounted marauders and chariots. It always worked.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Holy_Diver

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

Another piece of advice, in addition to the good comments already posted, is that when breaking down what didn't work in the post-game, is not to focus on what caused a direct problem for you (e.g. Fulminators making a charge and doing tons of damage) but what enabled that direct problem to happen in the first place. Often rewinding to earlier stages of the game can help discover what seemed like inevitable issues were in fact avoidable.

An example: In a recent game against Nighthaunt, I got my reinforced Chosen swarmed and destroyed after they charged, and spent a while debating what I could have done that would have been better. I could maybe have not charged, but given Nighthaunt's move, even that 11" charge would have let them easily do the same thing on their turn, right? What I realized is that my mistake wasn't in charging, but in how I placed them during the movement phase before the charge, which left them in that bad-choices-only position during the charge phase. I assumed "melee army, better move forward" without thinking about it, and got punished hard. This ties in with Holy_Diver's point.

Sometimes you are up against a master player or a truly vindictive set of dice, but more often, the power to win is within your reach. There is no such thing as a 0% win rate faction.

[Malakithe]

Also when it comes to screens everything is expensive points wise so how much do you invest in screens? Elite armies dont really have options. Nighthaunt can screen via sheer numbers but still have the dmg output that elite armies have. Ive been comparing Stormcast and StD and they are roughly the same as far as units costs and roles. Being elite is sometimes nice but you also need bodies and board presence...unless you play IJ. They just break all the rules 

[Koala]

Alright, this is of course abstract "armchair" advice but: 

While screening is mostly associated with cheap throwaway units, in Warhammer it more often than not means "offer a suboptimal target". 

If you play an agressive elite army you might find that you can not necessarily protect yourself from everything. But at the same time your guys are better 1v1 ( 'cause elite). 

So if you can make sure you only have few/weak enemies in contact you should be fine.

This is why chaos warriors, while expensive, are a powerful "Screen" unit. Most other screens will bounce off them, and the heavy stuff should be concerned about those knights with lances in the back...

Charging the side of the enemy unit furthest from reinforcements might help here ( we all want to go through right the midde, it just feels right. It is not) .

Or not piling in towards the mentioned reinforcements.

Terain might help ( i know most AoS players feel it is just eyecandy and annoying but it is HUGELY impactful in the elite vs horde balance)

Or maybe not charge at all. If they offer a cheap screen between you and their heavy hitters then those are also screening FOR you...

 

Can you end up with matchups/battleplans where your specific list feels lacking? Absolutely. AoS is far from perfectly balanced and favours certain playstyles. 

But this applies to every list ( and yeah, some are better than others). 

 

Actually specific tip: 

( Not THAT specific) 

Play a few matches just for/with missions. No charging/attacking except when necessary for said Missions. That might be the tactics as per GW rules. Or your own ( just not "kill'em all, waaaaagh", which , quite frankly, is how EVERYONE approaches the game at first).

You will probably loose the match but you will learn to see the game differently. 

And then see options that, in the heat of the match, you did not see before. 

 

[Malakithe]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:26 AM, Koala said:

This is why chaos warriors, while expensive, are a powerful "Screen" unit.

All I hear from this is make a list called 'oops all warriors'

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

16 hours ago, Malakithe said:

All I hear from this is make a list called 'oops all warriors'

I've been kinda tempted by something similar, but while warriors have good offensive output for a screen, they aren't a hammer. You would need some Chosen, Varanguard, on top of them. That being said, I could definitely see rocking 3x10 warriors or something like that for a solid wall of iron that can claim and take objectives without reprisal.

[Bayul]

2 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

That being said, I could definitely see rocking 3x10 warriors or something like that for a solid wall of iron that can claim and take objectives without reprisal.

And three Chaos Lords to make them their Retinue.

[Lord Krungharr]

Gearing up to assemble my StD army.  Anyone running Archaon at all?  Does he require a massive specific entourage to be worth it.... or is his prowess and warscroll able to stand on its own letting the rest of the army be how it wants to be?  

In the works I have:

10 Chosen

2 foot Sorcerers/ 1 Manticore Sorcerer

Manticore Lord/ Daemonic Mount Lord

5 Knights

20 Warriors

4 Chariots (or could be Gorebeast Chariots, they're heavily converted warmachines pushed by centaur-ogors)

4 Mutaliths

10 Chaos Spawn (which are really just for Mutalith effects)

and Archaon

Seems like the Cabalists are my favorite to help get spells off, though I'm also tempted by Despoilers.  Only endless spell I have currently is the Quicksilver Swords.

[ibel]

On 2/7/2023 at 12:28 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Seems like the Cabalists are my favorite to help get spells off, though I'm also tempted by Despoilers

I would say go for a Everchoosen List with Warrior, Choosen or

Despoiler List with 3 Mutaths

or Cabalists but jes u need more EndleesSpells

[Bayul]

Found two super interesting S2D lists in this article: https://woehammer.com/2023/02/10/top-three-aos-lists-for-bloodshed-in-the-shires/

[Lord Krungharr]

Wow 2/3 StD on the podium!  The whole wave of that 2nd StD army is something I haven't really explored, but deepstriking Corvus Cabal sure could come in handy; I like those guys, and then Untamed Beasts seem decent for pregame moves too.   Cabalists seem to be having good success with getting important spells off, so that's encouragin.

Wasn't sure if Archaon is all that, but I guess with Varanguard he can make the most of himself and them.  I just need an extra $300 and then I could run it 🤑

[Bayul]

Inspired by the Soulscream Bridge: What do you think of this budget list making most use of the army box and two Vanguard boxes:
 

Quote

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Cabalists
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Chaos Lord (115)*
- General
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- The Lore of the Damned: Chaos Conduit

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (120)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- The Lore of the Damned: Daemonic Speed

Exalted Hero of Chaos (100)*
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- The Lore of the Damned: Chaos Conduit

Battleline
10 x Chaos Knights (460)*
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

20 x Chaos Warriors (440)*
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

2 x Chaos Chariot (200)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
10 x Chaos Chosen (480)*
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Endless Spells & Invocations
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
Drops: 1

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Bayul

[Skarband]

Hi how about khorne themed army list? 

[Bayul]

5 minutes ago, Skarband said:

Hi how about khorne themed army list? 

I had to make the lesson that S2D doesn't work like that. You have to utilize every Mark of Chaos in your army according to your strategy. If you want to play Mono-God KHORNE then wait for the Blades of Khorne Battletome.

[Lord Krungharr]

What about an all Undivided army?  Because Chaos Dwarves don't worship the main 4 gods.  Only the best god, besides the Horned Rat: the Horned Father of Darkness.

 

[Adammck66]

If I ally in a Curseling of Tzeentch, which spell lores does he use?

 

[JackStreicher]

29 minutes ago, Adammck66 said:

If I ally in a Curseling of Tzeentch, which spell lores does he use?

 

None.
He only knows his warscroll spell(s) and one of the common spells (No Faction specific spells)

[Enoby]

I really like the rules of this new guy - it's exactly the sort of thing I want to see in Slaanesh. A tricky hero that is more about messing up your opponent's plans rather than just dumping big damage - it's an ability that requires some thought to counter our fragility. 

Hopefully the rest of the battletome is like this!