Sception Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Bosskelot said: When you have multiple examples of supposed "Limited" stock items languishing on shelves and not moving while entire markets have been unable to.buy basic units like Land Raiders and Fire Prisms for a year then that's not just about production capacity; that's about bad market research and bad prioritisation. Very much this. I'm not trying to defend GW or especially its management, I just don't think there's need to reach for malice against old world specifically when the same sorts of problems are plaguing the entire company. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Agreed that reaching for malice is a mistake but there’s a lot there that does fit with the picture of internal silos within GW. Consider how much FW stuff was outright scrapped prior to 8th edition 40k, or what Rick Priestly said about the whole ‘Thrones of Chaos’ project being developed and then dropped prior to AoS”, or about certain senior figures holding veto rights over particular releases. Some of the details about active internal rivalries might well be slants or interpretation but it’s very clear that large sections of GW just don’t talk to each other and that projects change tack very suddenly (often extremely late in the day) at the whims of different managers. I don’t think anyone really ever thought GW was a particularly well-managed company anyway? And then yeah, whatever about the external issues that have plagued GW lately, it’s also clear that their own resourcing and production capacity is extremely chaotic. A good chunk of that is self-inflicted. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, Beliman said: Old people prefer Historical wargames? Well older in this context would be more around 40 year (or 30-50) olds (where I fit neatly myself). Edited February 23 by Jamopower 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, sandlemad said: Agreed that reaching for malice is a mistake but there’s a lot there that does fit with the picture of internal silos within GW. Certainly. But even if true this would be a dumb thing imposed from above by management, not the actual devs trying to sabotage each other except in so far as management has forced them into competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Jamopower said: Well older in this context would be more around 40 year (or 30-50) olds (where I fit neatly myself). Me too, that's why I asked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) I don't believe there is malice or bad intent between the main studio and the specialist department. If anything there is a serious production / logistics problem within GW. These issues are a problem for their main games and specialist games and it's going on since a couple of years now. Edited February 23 by Tonhel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) I'm also confused why the Old World can't function as a 'specialist game' for AoS like warcry - or for that matter why 30k can't operate as a 'specialist game' for 40k like killteam. Accountant conniptions & department fights over who gets credit for what sales clearly don't prevent them from releasing a new model kit for 40k as a kill team (Eldar Striking Scorpions) or a new model kit for AoS as a warcry warband (Lumineth Riverblades). Underworlds teams get rules for AoS and Warcry, 40k units get rules for Kill Team and Necromunda, corporate can't definitively know what game to credit for the sale of any given genestealer magos blister, and yet somehow the sky doesn't fall. I'm not saying the product line segregation isn't happening, it clearly is. Just that it's dumb and not even universally applied. Edited February 23 by Sception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 47 minutes ago, Sception said: I'm also confused why the Old World can't function as a 'specialist game' for AoS like warcry - or for that matter why 30k can't operate as a 'specialist game' for 40k like killteam. Accountant conniptions & department fights over who gets credit for what sales clearly don't prevent them from releasing a new model kit for 40k as a kill team (Eldar Striking Scorpions) or a new model kit for AoS as a warcry warband (Lumineth Riverblades). Underworlds teams get rules for AoS and Warcry, 40k units get rules for Kill Team and Necromunda, corporate can't definitively know what game to credit for the sale of any given genestealer magos blister, and yet somehow the sky doesn't fall. I'm not saying the product line segregation isn't happening, it clearly is. Just that it's dumb and not even universally applied. I would say that there's a distinction there. Kill Team, Warcry and WHU are 'boxed games' or something similar, where the releases are all plastic and the minis are essentially all usable in the mainline games. That's the distinction made by GW themselves at least, though I can't find the WHC article where they set that out. Specialist games, by contrast, are your Blood Bowls, Necromundas, ATs, LIs where the distinction is that you can't easily cross over the minis. There's some examples of crossover, like genestealers in necro or how they re-use a chunk of the genestealers' vehicles as generic necro ones, but tbh it's always relatively low-key compared to, say Warcry units getting official rules. To me it looks more like adapting to a lack of resources and loosely plugging a gap in the rules. It's a lot less than the 'boxed game' examples. I think that these two types line up with 'main GW studio' and 'specialist games studio', which seems to be mostly a matter or managers and resource allocation (organisationally SF came out of FW veterans under Andy Hoare, even if that isn't everyone working there) rather than strictly defined remits. They might not want to step on each others' toes but it's not a big strategic matter, more something which comes out of inconsistently applied turf establishment. Like any big org really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) Was a hard matchup. I would have lost easily. The lack of monster slayer makes life hard for Dark Elves. I faced a Tomb King on Dragon (4+, 4+, 5+) -> completely immortal a Necrosphinx, two Scorpions, a Giant, 2 Blocks of Skeletons, each with a Necrotect, one mage Lv4 (hieropant), one mage lv 1, and a tomb prince I can’t deal enough damage to deal with the skeletons, my DE dragon has no chance to kill his, even after killing the Hierophant nothing crumbles due to the King‘s LD 10 bubble. Every skeleton unit is an elite unit with hatred and +1 attack. And he heals on top of it all while 3 units have both killing blows. It’s not easy to get rid of the Necrotects as well. It’s savage honestly no clue what to do about it as DE except for spamming Witch Elves and pray Any ideas? Edited February 23 by JackStreicher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Was a hard matchup. I would have lost easily. The lack of monster slayer makes life hard for Dark Elves. I faced a Tomb King on Dragon (4+, 4+, 5+) -> completely immortal a Necrosphinx, two Scorpions, a Giant, 2 Blocks of Skeletons, each with a Necrotect, one mage Lv4 (hieropant), one mage lv 1, and a tomb prince I can’t deal enough damage to deal with the skeletons, my DE dragon has no chance to kill his, even after killing the Hierophant nothing crumbles due to the King‘s LD 10 bubble. Every skeleton unit is an elite unit with hatred and +1 attack. And he heals on top of it all while 3 units have both killing blows. It’s not easy to get rid of the Necrotects as well. It’s savage honestly no clue what to do about it as DE except for spamming Witch Elves and pray Any ideas? Can always give your dreadlord on dragon the dragon slaying sword then go round and pick off his big stuff. Edit Just built this as a monster killing army. Big weakness is no magic but the tag team of the 2 dragons should take down the bone dragon sphinx and giant easily. The corsairs being open order, scouting dark riders and harpies are super mobile and should be able to dance around the slow undead and get in the way to allow your dragons free reign. Bolt throwers to pepper the enemy and the bloodwracks are a bit of fun and the stony stares should cause some damage to I 1 troops, frenzy could be a pain tho. Saying that, both charging into a skeleton unit and either dark riders or corsairs in the flank could do alot of damage. Could be a fun list to use or maybe fall flat on its face lol. Edit edit, here the list === Monster killer [1998 pts] Warhammer: The Old World, Dark Elves === ++ Characters [998 pts] ++ Dark Elf Dreadlord [508 pts] - Hand weapon - Full plate armour - Shield - Black dragon - Dragon Slaying Sword - Pendant Of Khaeleth Dark Elf Dreadlord [490 pts] - Hand weapon - Full plate armour - Sea Dragon Cloak - Black dragon - Sword Of Ruin - Charmed Shield ++ Core Units [560 pts] ++ 5 Dark Riders [106 pts] - Hand weapons - cavalry spears - and repeater crossbows - Light armour - Shields - Scouts - Musician 5 Dark Riders [106 pts] - Hand weapons - cavalry spears - and repeater crossbows - Light armour - Shields - Scouts - Musician 10 Black Ark Corsairs [116 pts] - Hand weapons and repeater handbows - Light armour - Musician 10 Black Ark Corsairs [116 pts] - Hand weapons and repeater handbows - Light armour - Musician 10 Black Ark Corsairs [116 pts] - Hand weapons and repeater handbows - Light armour - Musician ++ Special Units [110 pts] ++ 5 Harpies [55 pts] - Claws (counts as hand weapons) 5 Harpies [55 pts] - Claws (counts as hand weapons) ++ Rare Units [330 pts] ++ 1 Bloodwrack Medusas [85 pts] - Hand weapon and petrifying gaze - Light armour 1 Bloodwrack Medusas [85 pts] - Hand weapon and petrifying gaze - Light armour 1 Reaper Bolt Throwers [80 pts] - Repeater bolt thrower and hand weapons - Light armour 1 Reaper Bolt Throwers [80 pts] - Repeater bolt thrower and hand weapons - Light armour --- Created with "Old World Builder" [https://old-world-builder.com] Edited February 24 by Ogregut 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 @Ogregut sadly the list would not work. Due to the rules for issuing a challenge he‘d pick off the dragons one by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKull Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: @Ogregut sadly the list would not work. Due to the rules for issuing a challenge he‘d pick off the dragons one by one. You need to charge something else along with dragons - ie dark riders with a champion to accept challenges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, JackStreicher said: @Ogregut sadly the list would not work. Due to the rules for issuing a challenge he‘d pick off the dragons one by one. You do strike first and all you need is one 6 on the to wound roll with the dragon slaying sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ogregut said: You do strike first and all you need is one 6 on the to wound roll with the dragon slaying sword. He has a 4+ ward so a 50% chance to survive. I‘ve had (summed up) 16 wound rolls with monster slayer and didn’t score a dingle 6 🥲 (when I first fought that thing with two Bretonnian Blender-Lords) Speaking of cheese: he places a cheap hero right behind one of his fighting units (block of skeletons) which stops them from giving ground and creates an endless grind in his favor. There‘re some abusive builds with Khemri (already) which are incredibly hard to deal with. @KingKull works against me as he will overkill that champ and my units will give ground and be prone to counter charges with big skeleton blocks which will bind them for the entire game. His army is by no means invincible it’s just dripping with cheese Edited February 25 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 My night goblin army is done. Felt so good to finish my first square based army in 10 years! 2k points for madcap madness!! Need to decide what's next, I've dark elves, warriors of chaos, wood elves or brets, tho I think I might do my AoS flesh eaters as a pallet cleanser. 50 models in a army as opposed to 50 in a unit 😂😂 13 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnerva Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 15 hours ago, JackStreicher said: He has a 4+ ward so a 50% chance to survive. I‘ve had (summed up) 16 wound rolls with monster slayer and didn’t score a dingle 6 🥲 (when I first fought that thing with two Bretonnian Blender-Lords) Speaking of cheese: he places a cheap hero right behind one of his fighting units (block of skeletons) which stops them from giving ground and creates an endless grind in his favor. There‘re some abusive builds with Khemri (already) which are incredibly hard to deal with. @KingKull works against me as he will overkill that champ and my units will give ground and be prone to counter charges with big skeleton blocks which will bind them for the entire game. His army is by no means invincible it’s just dripping with cheese Try Death Hag with +k3 attacks, and sword of ruin. This lady just obliterates 4/5 toughness units. Played againts VC. and i deleted 21 GG with wight bsb in them. And You should try bedazzling helm and pendant. Go full tank on that dragon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Prices in Euros: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 @Ogregut Awesome stuff ! It's nice to see how well the AoS gobbos fit for a Night Gobelin army. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I'm waiting until availability is a bit better to pick up some Old World stuff (don't want to take models away from people who are actively building armies to play, still busy with Cities of Sigmar right now), but the price point on the bone dragon seems OK. Will probably get one at some point. I hope the prices on the returning metal models are good. I kind of want a Green Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatforce Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Why the heck are they charging the same for 3 chariots as 16 horsemen or 32 skellies? The other 2 are 2 of the old boxes and they were always costed the same.... So Chariot prices have been doubled? What? Actually wait, the Chariots are more expensive than Horsemen, once again, what?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, Mordeus said: @Ogregut Awesome stuff ! It's nice to see how well the AoS gobbos fit for a Night Gobelin army. Thank you, have to say I'm a big fan of the bigger bases, defo a good move on GWs part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 It is supposed to be £37.50 for 12 knights of the realm and £47.50 for 20 knights on foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatforce Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Sunshine said: It is supposed to be £37.50 for 12 knights of the realm and £47.50 for 20 knights on foot. Wait, so it's about £45 for the janky as hell old skellies? Dear god. Hilarious that they seem to think those are worth getting on for as much per model as the current SBG skellies... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosskelot Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 hours ago, Ogregut said: My night goblin army is done. Felt so good to finish my first square based army in 10 years! 2k points for madcap madness!! Need to decide what's next, I've dark elves, warriors of chaos, wood elves or brets, tho I think I might do my AoS flesh eaters as a pallet cleanser. 50 models in a army as opposed to 50 in a unit 😂😂 Looks awesome. Is that 2k? Seems like less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosskelot Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 36 minutes ago, Goatforce said: Wait, so it's about £45 for the janky as hell old skellies? Dear god. Hilarious that they seem to think those are worth getting on for as much per model as the current SBG skellies... Not really. You're getting 36 of them instead of 20 for one thing, and they actually have options in how you build them, unlike Deathrattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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