Warhammer - The Old World

[Tonhel]

The pdf's look good! The only difference is that two core factions have acces to arcane journal. For the rest there is no difference. 

[Pizzaprez]

1 minute ago, Kronos said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/22/old-world-almanack-download-the-legacy-pdfs-here/
 

Thoughts? 

Chaos Dwarfs are back! The army is the newest "Legion of Azgorh" iteration minus any of the Azgorh-specific narrative stuff. Always makes me happy on the occasions they're remembered, even if this is lining them up to get axed again in a few years since theyre entering another game as "get you by" rules

The narrative stuff is interesting, there's a couple new physical descriptions of stuff like Infernal Guard and I dig that the faction still maintains the imagery of wizards being loaded down with vials and potions to throw: I love that wizard niche and I dig that the chaos dwarfs lean on it so hard

[Ogregut]

Love the dark elves, black guard and executioners seem very good as do sisters of slaughter. 

Toughness 4 and 2+ save cold ones are awesome as well. 

Might have to make a noble on a chariot as well. 

The armies of Naggaroth are back. 

All hail the Witch King, the true Phoenix King! 

[Ejecutor]

20 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Dogs of War are not real and can't hurt you.

While I was trying to sleep one of my twins I thought about it the other way around when I was thinking that Kislev is also missing.

What if DoW and Kislev are not there because they are thinking in the far future to release them if the game is successful?

[RyantheFett]

34 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

After a quick skim (so, hot take, pinch of salt and all that) they look a really developed product, some of them (Daemons) are in fact longer in sheer number of pages than army lists in Forces of Fantasy/Ravening Hordes. It surely doesn't feel like a "legended" situation -of course, only time will tell.

My guess would be that time is the most important factor. They are useable now, but could see them phase out or become total trash when 2.0 rolls around, but that should take years.

GW really don't want players to use one army for two games and they are letting us know lol. 

[Beliman]

6 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

All hail the Witch Dread King, the true Phoenix King! 

Boomer!

[BarakUrbaz]

15 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

The pdf's look good! The only difference is that two core factions have acces to arcane journal. For the rest there is no difference. 

I say that's a big impact in that past editions of Warhammer had variant lists for those factions it would've been cool to see as Armies of Renown, and its sad that we won't get to see those supported. The Vampire Bloodline army lists from their 6E book, the Lizardmen Sacred Hosts from White Dwarf, Southlands Lizardmen from I think it was their 6E book, the various Skaven monoclan armies we got from numerous sources, etc. 

[BarakUrbaz]

7 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

While I was trying to sleep one of my twins I thought about it the other way around when I was thinking that Kislev is also missing.

What if DoW and Kislev are not there because they are thinking in the far future to release them if the game is successful?

In addition to all of the supported at launch factions, the core rulebook has four sections dedicated to non-playable factions; one called Southern Kingdoms which encompasses the Border Princes, Tilea and Estalia (though Border Prince is already technically playable with the Bretonnian Exiles list), one for Kislev, one for Cathay, and one for Norsca (who are given a seperate section entirely from Warriors of Chaos). Of note they dont have any sections for the legacy factions beyond what is described in the general overall timeline section. 

Edited January 22 by BarakUrbaz

[EonChao]

Now the dilemma... do I continue to sit on the AoS Dark Elves I picked up a few years ago for a future Cities project or do I turn them into the start of a Dark Elves TOW list

[Black_Templar_Lad]

9 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

While I was trying to sleep one of my twins I thought about it the other way around when I was thinking that Kislev is also missing.

What if DoW and Kislev are not there because they are thinking in the far future to release them if the game is successful?

Holy.MOLY

Because Kislev was a supported faction. That's it brother!

Holyyyyy.moly.

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, EonChao said:

Now the dilemma... do I continue to sit on the AoS Dark Elves I picked up a few years ago for a future Cities project or do I turn them into the start of a Dark Elves TOW list

For me it is clear. DE time in AoS is now, if it is a future project I would go for TOW, otherwise you could find them removed from AoS.

[Garrac]

5 minutes ago, EonChao said:

Now the dilemma... do I continue to sit on the AoS Dark Elves I picked up a few years ago for a future Cities project or do I turn them into the start of a Dark Elves TOW list

Round bases and square trays, my friend

[Tonhel]

56 minutes ago, BarakUrbaz said:

I say that's a big impact in that past editions of Warhammer had variant lists for those factions it would've been cool to see as Armies of Renown, and its sad that we won't get to see those supported. The Vampire Bloodline army lists from their 6E book, the Lizardmen Sacred Hosts from White Dwarf, Southlands Lizardmen from I think it was their 6E book, the various Skaven monoclan armies we got from numerous sources, etc. 

True! I really like the Arcane journals, but before all the core factions got their Arcane journal it will be almost 2025. So in short term it doesn't make any difference.

TOW is cleary a huge succes, as was seen with launch day at GW HQ. So hopefully they will change their minds in the future as indeed lots of cool stuff can be done with Arcane journals for those legacy factions. Anyway I will buy all the Arcane Journals and all supplements / campaigns that TOW will get. So hopefully this is not the last day for those legacy factions!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

53 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

True! I really like the Arcane journals, but before all the core factions got their Arcane journal it will be almost 2025. So in short term it doesn't make any difference.

TOW is cleary a huge succes, as was seen with launch day at GW HQ. So hopefully they will change their minds in the future as indeed lots of cool stuff can be done with Arcane journals for those legacy factions. Anyway I will buy all the Arcane Journals and all supplements / campaigns that TOW will get. So hopefully this is not the last day for those legacy factions!

Honestly, I read their statement of "these factions are not supported, we won't make rules or models for them" as "these factions don't yet in the current 3 year project plan" from the start.

There is no way they won't add them to the game later if it does way well enough. 

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Honestly, I read their statement of "these factions are not supported, we won't make rules or models for them" as "these factions don't yet in the current 3 year project plan" from the start.

There is no way they won't add them to the game later if it does way well enough. 

Especially once their relative AoS factions have replaced their current models.

[Beliman]

4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Honestly, I read their statement of "these factions are not supported, we won't make rules or models for them" as "these factions don't yet in the current 3 year project plan" from the start.

That's exactly what I read too:

GW - We are not going to produce or support this non-core miniatures because (reasons...), and we manage to take them out from our 3 or 4 years plan (aka, story, campaigns, supplements, etc...), and we recomend (aka, ban them from competitive) to buy only core armies.

[JackStreicher]

Wait, isn’t the Vampire Roaster missing a unit?

wraiths?

[FFJump]

The Chaos Dwarf list is amazing! I'm so happy with it. It's rare that GW actually gives us BACK things. They've returned units that were missing in the Azgorh list. Black Orcs, Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers, and Sneaky Gitz have all returned. Also the description for Infernal Guard suggests they also just represent "regular" Chaos Dwarf warriors now and not just Azgorh specific units. I can't understate how excited I am. Feels like a "complete" Chaos Dwarf army.

[Jator]

30 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Especially once their relative AoS factions have replaced their current models.

I mean, as the ranges get AoSified there's little reason not to keep profiting from the old stuff in ToW. Seems like a no-brainer to me, although that obviously will take years.

Worst case scenario these pdf would be a great starting point for the community to work with as the game goes on.

[Ogregut]

25 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Wait, isn’t the Vampire Roaster missing a unit?

wraiths?

Wraiths haven't been a unit in a undead army since 6th edition I believe. 

The wraith became a character. 

Edit: just remembered what they were like in 4th edition, 75 points a model, 3 wounds, 3 attacks with double handed weapons, immune to all but magical attacks. They were a bit over the top. 

Edited January 22 by Ogregut

[Public Universal Duardin]

I must say, I found it pretty funny how they keep repeating that yes, these aren't core factions and won't get support. I almost expected a final "and don't buy AoS minis for these!" lol

But at least this helps me personally, by making the list of choices smaller. So TGA, as a chorf lover wanting to start a new army, should I get Dwarfs (for the Dwarf aspect of Chorfs) or Chaos (for the chaos aspect of Chorfs)?

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I must say, I found it pretty funny how they keep repeating that yes, these aren't core factions and won't get support. I almost expected a final "and don't buy AoS minis for these!" lol

But at least this helps me personally, by making the list of choices smaller. So TGA, as a chorf lover wanting to start a new army, should I get Dwarfs (for the Dwarf aspect of Chorfs) or Chaos (for the chaos aspect of Chorfs)?

Wait for the AoS Chorfs for a couple of years or 3

Edited January 22 by Ejecutor

[Pizzaprez]

5 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I must say, I found it pretty funny how they keep repeating that yes, these aren't core factions and won't get support. I almost expected a final "and don't buy AoS minis for these!" lol

But at least this helps me personally, by making the list of choices smaller. So TGA, as a chorf lover wanting to start a new army, should I get Dwarfs (for the Dwarf aspect of Chorfs) or Chaos (for the chaos aspect of Chorfs)?

If you start a Chaos army using the Horns of Hashut as your main aesthetic touchstone, you'll be able to easily justify putting Chorfs on the same side of the table as 'em once they release! That's the route I decided to go

[Kronos]

4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Wait for the AoS Chorfs for a couple of years or 3

I’ll add them to the same waiting list as Kurnothi, Malerion, and  Dispossessed.

 

Ok, Had another look through the PdF’s. No kroak for Lizzies and No Vermin Lord for Skaven. I’m hoping there’ll be a separate pdf in future for the Legacy Characters.

[FFJump]

3 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I must say, I found it pretty funny how they keep repeating that yes, these aren't core factions and won't get support. I almost expected a final "and don't buy AoS minis for these!" lol

But at least this helps me personally, by making the list of choices smaller. So TGA, as a chorf lover wanting to start a new army, should I get Dwarfs (for the Dwarf aspect of Chorfs) or Chaos (for the chaos aspect of Chorfs)?

Just do Chaos Dwarfs, that's what I'm doing  . Chaos Dwarfs have always been the army that you had to work to get built up on the fringes of support, so this changes nothing. Unless you're planning on attending any GW events, most indy events already said legacy will be allowed and the general community sentiment seems to be just treat them as any other army.

If it's models you're worried about, you could always Chaos-ify some Dwarfs or get some 3rd party if you don't want to source the minis. I'm a Chorf lover, and I'm lucky in that I already had an existing 6th edition and Azgorh army I've built up from official models over the years, so I know I'm an outlier but there's plenty of other options available until the AoS Chorfs come out.