Warhammer - The Old World

[Clan's Cynic]

Interestingly one of the Border Princes characters is a Kislev Boyar. With them setting up the 'moshpit' of Border Princes as being one of the principal focuses of TOW, it's a good sign that Kislev is still on the cards for the future, albeit still some ways in the distance.

 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

'Gywnael the Brash' is to my liking (as opposed to 'Gywnael le Insert-French-word-for-brash). 

[cyrus]

As reported by Elarin on the other topic : ToW preorder is 6th of January , release 20th January 

[Sception]

54 minutes ago, Nos said:

They've made a lot of money and continous sales off of using the 20+ year old LOTR models and occasionally releasing a few new books and kits to keep things rolling. I expect exactly the same approach here. 

Fundamentally Warhammer as a Wargame is not beginner friendly at all, the thing that makes it so appealing -scale and spectacle- also requires a high bar to clear, loads of painted minis and a big space to play with them. Most people wanting to play it will already have rank and file armies for Kings of War etc. 

It's weird seeing this being described by Oldhammer by some as it is far more in keeping with the 7th and 8th Ed, the most modern Warhammer.

Oldhammer usually applies to Warhammer as a RPG-Skirmish game era, 1-3rd Ed or so. 

Where I am all of warhammer fantasy battle became 'oldhammer' pretty much the moment AOS was announced.

A LotR style existence is pretty much the midpoint between 'big hit' and 'total failure'.  Thinking about it, yeah, that is probably the most likely future trajectory for TOW, and imo wouldn't be a bad thing at all.  Sure, MESBG doesn't get the sort of release hype that builds new fans on its own, and some of its models are /really/ showing their age with no hope of first party updates, but if you can put in the work to gather a local scene to play then it remains one of the better games in GW's lineup, and the lack of constant new releases and editions means the game overall is a lot more stable.

I don't think there is a future where TOW gets supported the way 40k or AoS is supported, with regular new releases including multiple major model line updates per year.  The best that could be hoped for if TOW is super successful is a Horus Heresy type trajectory, where new plastics, including updates of existing models, do sometimes happen, but are mostly tied to relatively infrequent new editions, but new resin character and unit releases aren't terribly uncommon.  Even that might be too much of a best case to hope for, since Horus Heresy is like 90%+ a single faction (notably the only one that ever gets plastic releases), and that just won't be the situation for TOW.

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Sception said:

Where I am all of warhammer fantasy battle became 'oldhammer' pretty much the moment AOS was announced.

A LotR style existence is pretty much the midpoint between 'big hit' and 'total failure'.  Thinking about it, yeah, that is probably the most likely future trajectory for TOW, and imo wouldn't be a bad thing at all.  Sure, MESBG doesn't get the sort of release hype that builds new fans on its own, and some of its models are /really/ showing their age with no hope of first party updates, but if you can put in the work to gather a local scene to play then it remains one of the better games in GW's lineup, and the lack of constant new releases and editions means the game overall is a lot more stable.

I don't think there is a future where TOW gets supported the way 40k or AoS is supported, with regular new releases including multiple major model line updates per year.  The best that could be hoped for if TOW is super successful is a Horus Heresy type trajectory, where new plastics, including updates of existing models, do sometimes happen, but are mostly tied to relatively infrequent new editions, but new resin character and unit releases aren't terribly uncommon.  Even that might be too much of a best case to hope for, since Horus Heresy is like 90%+ a single faction (notably the only one that ever gets plastic releases), and that just won't be the situation for TOW.

Sounds good to me and if GW ever wants to do some subscription service for STL's or sell STL's TOW is the perfect for it. MMF / Patreon have already a lot of Warhammeresque STLs, so GW has nothing to lose with it. I don't think there will ever be GW provided Stls for AoS or 30K/40K, but for TOW who knows.

[Sception]

I doubt GW will go the stl route any time soon.  Long term it's hard to see it as anything other than the unavoidable future of the industry, but in the short term there's quality (FDM is lousy for minis), safety (resin involves toxic liquids and vapors), and profitability questions (not sure GW can sustain itself on a 'buy the template once then print as many as you want' model, to say nothing of maintaining brick and mortar stores without which the entire hobby withers and dies for lack of a place to gather and play).

[Tonhel]

For TOW only, not for AoS and certainly not for 30/40K as that keeps GW succesful. Anyway as a subscriber of various fantasy Warhammer inspired patreons/tribes it's just wishful thinking of my part for a GW stl subscription for TOW.

[Sception]

I understand the wish.  I'd pay a frankly embarrassing sum for the STL files of the studio's OBR walls, gate, and tower, and they wouldn't even have to design anything new for that.  That's stuff that's just sitting around idle on someone's computer already.  But yeah, for the moment I can't imagine GW wants to be putting the idea of 3d printing into the minds of any hobbyists who aren't already thinking about it.

 

[Taerg Ad Ywons]

Do we know if the launch boxes are the new battalions, or will they be the typical fomo box? I ask as I'm keen on tombkings and kinda want to not miss out.

[Clan's Cynic]

38 minutes ago, Taerg Ad Ywons said:

Do we know if the launch boxes are the new battalions, or will they be the typical fomo box? I ask as I'm keen on tombkings and kinda want to not miss out.

They're front and centre of the updated TOW site, which would strongly suggest they're not FOMO boxes. Nothing 100% confirmed yet though, I believe. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Taerg Ad Ywons]

I hope you're right, I'm just twitchy as every 'Launch Box' for AoS and 40k have been a limited "first-in scalps-best" kinda deal.

[Hollow]

19 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Splitting the army books between a bulky compilation and a second pricy book is really annoying though, can't lie.

Both Leviathan and Dominion are available online to this day. 

[Ejecutor]

9 minutes ago, Hollow said:

Both Leviathan and Dominion are available online to this day. 

Are they? Dominion is understandable because it was overproduced, but I cannot find Leviathan copies over here. Their long-lasting boxes are the starter sets, not Dominion or Leviathan.

[Hollow]

Some online distributors have both listed as in stock. (UK-based) Remember that GW is primarily a manufacturer, not a retailer. 

[Hollow]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

Dominion is understandable because it was overproduced.

 

I think it is funny that you parrot this forum "knowledge" and state it as if it is a known fact. There have been exactly 0 official statements from Gamesworkshop regarding the production run of Dominion. 

This tends to happen fairly frequently when it comes to Games Workshop. Somebody will make a post on a forum speculating that they think something is the case, several people will repeat it and then it just becomes an accepted truth even though there has actually been 0 official confirmation either way. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Hollow

[Baron Klatz]

2 hours ago, Hollow said:

Somebody will make a post on a forum speculating that they think something is the case

Tbf, even if it wasn’t an official GW statement it was still said by Australian retailers that was the case.

Usual GW products they got delivered were about 20 to 40 sets. Dominion blew them away at 60 to 100 sets per shop.(while interestingly the Ork beastsmasher boxes at the time were just 1 per shop to up Fomo?)

But it seems fair because GW reported Dominion was their best selling fantasy product to date beating out every other starter and they still had to have discount sales to offload them all. Even now on Amazon by their data they sell around 100 per month since then  and are nowhere near the “only a few remaining left!” Sticker on the products.

It all adds up to wanting to avoid the Indomitus fiasco but someone went overboard. (Which I don’t see a downside to. The Dominion box is amazing and honestly worth grabbing multiple copies of with how great the forces & terrain in it look. Very happy new player even now use it as a entry into the hobby)

 

[Hollow]

1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:

(Which I don’t see a downside to. The Dominion box is amazing and honestly worth grabbing multiple copies of with how great the forces & terrain in it look. Very happy new player even now use it as a entry into the hobby)

 

Which is kind of the point I was making. We just don't know, but some parrot forum speculation as if it's settled fact. It might be the case, might not. We don't know what GW's intention was (except to make as mjuch money from the product as possible). Also, print runs go down in price the more you make, perhaps this amount of production lead to the cost per unit decreasing significantly thereby increasing profits? I'm not really taking a stance either way, just highlighting the fact that we don't know the facts. 

[Ejecutor]

6 hours ago, Hollow said:

 

I think it is funny that you parrot this forum "knowledge" and state it as if it is a known fact. There have been exactly 0 official statements from Gamesworkshop regarding the production run of Dominion. 

This tends to happen fairly frequently when it comes to Games Workshop. Somebody will make a post on a forum speculating that they think something is the case, several people will repeat it and then it just becomes an accepted truth even though there has actually been 0 official confirmation either way. 

I am not repeating anyone, I think it is a fact as I saw a lot of places listing it, still nowadays, with a 50% discount. It is the first time a ed launch box last for so long with such a heavy discount.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

They're front and centre of the updated TOW site, which would strongly suggest they're not FOMO boxes. Nothing 100% confirmed yet though, I believe. 

I was thinking these are temporary boxes because of all the extra stuff in them. You certainly don't see core rule books bundled into Vanguard or Combat Patrol boxes. 

[YoghurtKobold]

Do you think older kits which are not part of the starter boxes will be released alongside them or we will have to wait? Possibly will they even be made to order?

Also is it possible that they will release new TK models later? Normally I would say that everything was shown and nothing new is coming (maybe ever)for TK, but that sentence at the end of the last TK article (On top of all of these, a full range of classic Khemri miniatures will be returning to bolster the forces featured in this article, with much more to come in the future.) left me uncertain and hopeful for something more.

[Ejecutor]

26 minutes ago, YoghurtKobold said:

Do you think older kits which are not part of the starter boxes will be released alongside them or we will have to wait? Possibly will they even be made to order?

Also is it possible that they will release new TK models later? Normally I would say that everything was shown and nothing new is coming (maybe ever)for TK, but that sentence at the end of the last TK article (On top of all of these, a full range of classic Khemri miniatures will be returning to bolster the forces featured in this article, with much more to come in the future.) left me uncertain and hopeful for something more.

Made to order on a later date for the least core minis. The rest would be in the catalogue, but from a later date, imo.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Ejecutor

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I was thinking these are temporary boxes because of all the extra stuff in them. You certainly don't see core rule books bundled into Vanguard or Combat Patrol boxes. 

Age of Darkness and the Legions Imperialis Core Sets both include the big rulebook, but aren't temporary/limited. Both of them are also from the Forge World team.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[cyrus]

3 hours ago, YoghurtKobold said:

Do you think older kits which are not part of the starter boxes will be released alongside them or we will have to wait? Possibly will they even be made to order?

Also is it possible that they will release new TK models later? Normally I would say that everything was shown and nothing new is coming (maybe ever)for TK, but that sentence at the end of the last TK article (On top of all of these, a full range of classic Khemri miniatures will be returning to bolster the forces featured in this article, with much more to come in the future.) left me uncertain and hopeful for something more.

There will be probably a second wave one - two months after as we have in AoS .

Tk is in better shape than bretonnia with 8th edition kits as tomb guard , sepulchral stalkers and necrosphinx. 

We have already seen Ushabti and Carrion artwork which will be probably fw resin recast.

[Beliman]

34 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Age of Darkness and the Legions Imperialis Core Sets both include the big rulebook, but aren't temporary/limited. Both of them are also from the Forge World team.

 

I look to Age of Darkness and Legion Imperialis as a template for TOW. That's what I expext, even if it's not a 1:1 copy

[GhostShark]

5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I was thinking these are temporary boxes because of all the extra stuff in them. You certainly don't see core rule books bundled into Vanguard or Combat Patrol boxes. 

I wonder.

You're right that you don't see rulebooks in Vanguard and Combat Patrol boxes, but this is a different kind of product. It really is a starter set. If you don't already have an army you HAVE to but one of these sets. There's no other official way to play the game.

If they discontinue these sets they'll have to make the contents available separately on a permanent basis. After all, these are the core of each army. If these units aren't available than the army isn't playable. Which means the game isn't playable, at least for new players that don't already own an army. So they'll need to either keep these boxes available or keep all the individual units available. I could see either way.

Doing the boxes does mean having just 1 sku and  a very easy point of entry for new players. On the other hand, a player who wants to start 2 armies isn't going to need to big rulebooks. So maybe we'll eventually see the contents repackaged without a rulebook and the big centerpiece new model?