Lets talk Morghasts!

[Overread]

So with the new Bonereapers on the horizon sporting some of these in their book, and since GW still hasn't put Bonereapers up for sale (apparently its not October yet..) I thought it would be good to get some early chatter on the potential of the Morghasts, since some of us might be getting some early to prepare for the approaching legion of reapers. 

So there's a few things I'd like to raise as considerations:

Note based on how GW doesn't actually change any rules for alternate models in different armies at present, despite giving them separate warscrolls (eg zombie and royal zombie dragons); this chatter will relate to the Morghast rules as of now, though the new army could change them; but I'd wager not in a big way. 

1) Arachi vs Harbingers. Two forms and the only variation is a chest plate and head type. One gets an extra long charge declaration and potential range whilst the other gets a 5+ mortal wound save. With the number of mortal wounds flying around in AoS today this makes the latter start to appear far more interesting than the former as whilst a long charge is good, there are other ways to boost a units speed/range in that regard. Furthermore there's no point in having a greater charge reach if you still die to mortal wounds before/at the time or arrival. They do have  9 inch move and flight so are plenty mobile as well without getting the increased charge distance. 

2) Blades VS Halberds. Halberds have a greater reach, greater damage and rending, but fewer attacks; swords offer less per hit, but at the same time get 5 strikes instead of 3. However when you do the rough maths with the 3+ hit and wound you get:

Halberds - 0.75 hit at -2 rend 3 damage
Swords - 1.25 hit at -1 rend 2 damage

That's only a 0.5 of a difference in the number of hits and both are roughly evening out at only 1 hit. Now that's only the rough numbers on 1 morghast, with 2

Halberds - 1.5 hit at -2 rend 3 damage
Swords - 2.5 hit at -1 rend 2 damage

Now we start to see a bit more difference. Though if we round both up to 2 and 3 respectfully then they actually deal the same amount of damage, however the swords might get more through as its 1 more save that has to be made; whilst the halberds still have that better rending score to beat past armour saves. 

Overall they are quite close all told, which makes it a hard choice between them, so it would be interesting to hear from those who have played which tends to work out mechanically the superior choice. That 1 inch extra range letting you reach over a chaff unit or terrain or just get a better reach into combat might well make all the difference. 

 

 

 

The other aspect of discussion I'd like to present is converting them and for that there are two avenues that I can see worth raising for common conversions:

1) Magnets. For magnets there are two aspects to consider, one is harbinger to arachi and the other is the weapons. Having a look at the kit the contact areas for both are not all that huge and for the arms you've got to consider posing for the halberd over the swords (since the former requires both arms to link up for holding it, whilst the swords can be posed at a greater variety of angles). 

For the arachie vs harbinger the chest armour is likely not too hard, a small 2mm magnet might well be easy to fit to the already present mounting spot on both types of armour. Though looking at the armour thickness the magnet might sit proud on that armour plate and then the recess into the main body would be deeper with the magnet sunk right in so that the chest plates can sit flush. The real trick would be getting both chest plates to have the magnet sit at the same height - the open skeleton plate likely the best to do first as it has less body to its front to drill into. 

The heads I've not properly looked at to see how practical they would be to magnetize. 

As an aside note the armour plating on the chest is likely something one wants to fit after painting of the skeletons anyway so leaving it (and liekly the shoulder plates too) until later isn't a bad thing, so adding in the magnetizing step isn't likely going to interrupt much of the assembling and painting process.

 

2) Standing pose. Not just for variation but also better structural support over just having the wing spirits holding the model up. I've seen @Rob Hawkins conversion with his standing on some ruins, though he doesn't go into detail on the legwork, esp the legs that have the feet pressed together and facing downward. 

https://robhawkinshobby.blogspot.com/2017/05/morghast-archai.html

Interestingly he uses rods it seems for the arms instead of magnets, unless that photo was a work in process conversion. 

I've not managed to find much other info on this type of conversion on the net, so either my searching is poor or its not something many have attempted with the morghasts. 

[Eevika]

Personally if I was to build some of these I would go for the long charges and halberts and use them as a fast unit to kill enemy elites.

[El Syf]

I love morghasts! Personally i find the sword armed models no to my liking and -2 rend 3 damage has always appealed more to me. The 3D6 charge presents another problem in that they usually end up to far away from a hero to get the 6+ save.

Also in grand host they get an extra attack as well which almost makes them worth the points. I'm really hoping the Bonereapers tome drops them further in points or changes the warscroll somehow; maybe we will finally find out what the reanimant keyword means?

 

 

[Kugane]

It may be quite dangerous to invest in morghasts currently. For all we know the rules may change when the tome hits the shelves? Maybe they are a suboptimal unit as well.

As for conversions, I think you can just take whatever look you prefer and specify it to your opponent. If you model all of them with chest plates it hardly changes the WYSIWYG.

[XReN]

I probably won't be getting Morghasts before the tome, for utility - 3d6 charges all the way, I percieve them only as assasins that surge deep into enemy formation to cut down support pieces, the weapon choice will come down to what buffs are available, if they can get +1 attack - than halberds, if there is no such option than it will depend on what I feel they will face, but from 3+ save halberds will make more sense.

[Neffelo]

I am curious myself how they are going to change up the Morghasts warscrolls with the new tome. While they are somewhat effective now, they are a bit boring. I am of the opinion that they are going to get a major warscroll change in the new book. I at least hope so.  I would not advise anyone to purchase them until after the new tome is out, for sure. 

Right now the superior configuration seems to always be the Harbingers+halberds. The 5+ mortal wound save isn't enough to really keep them around. You have to make use of them quickly, and they need to do a lot of damage so it's always the Harbingers. The extra reach is also preferred because these are pretty big models and bases. it's not worth the risk of not getting in your attacks.

TLDR: Halberds and Harbingers, because they are a glass cannon and you want to get them in fast and deal as much damage as possible. 

 

[Overread]

I was musing on how they might differ from the skeletal elite that we've seen and I wonder if the Morghasts will be more the powerful glass cannon for surgical strikes  since their hits do a lot of damage and rend, but they dont' generate all that many for their points. Whilst the new four armed skeltal warriors might be the opposite. Less rending and more 1 or 2 damage, but at the same time being able to perform far more attacks. 

 

Making the Morghasts an ideal mid-range hunting unit against loan models or such; whilst the new Skeletal ones are ideal anti-infantry/chaff units; not as good against a high save high wound single model, but able to tear through infantry/tarpits. 

[Souleater]

I got a pair of Morghasts to test paint while we wait for the OBR.

I have magnetized the weapons.  Put one magnet in each hand  but stacked two into each wrist. I think I used 3mm diameter magnets, so had to do a little resculpting of the hand, but the magnets hold well.

 

For the armour  you might be able to sink a magnet into the skull, then line the helmet with flexible magnetic strip, or perhaps layers of tinfoil. The helmet can be popped on and off fairly easily but it is quite thin.

Probably easier to varnish the Morghast's skull and put a little blu-tac in the helmet. 

 

Game wise, I am hoping they get some form of deep strike capability. 

In terms of power...would it be dreadful to roll them into a single entry with both the extended charge range and the 5# save?

Fluffwise, I wonder how far GW will push the Nagash-Makes-SCE angle. What i mean is we could see Morghast taking on some Angelos chamber traits.

 

 

[Sleboda]

I have 10 already (bought them in the End Times) and did 5 of each weapon type (there was no flexibility with charge vs. save in combo with swords vs. halberds).

I have just two things is like to see in their update:

1. 30 point per model reduction

2. Ability to add one at a time to units so that I can use all 10 of mine.

[Souleater]

Ten? Ten?! 😮

[Eevika]

The real question is why 5 of each when they come in twos 

[Uvatha]

Thank you for the topic! I love anything about Morghasts (the model design, the rules, the lore). I had been trying to build a 1k Legion of Grief list to play against a 1k Skaven list of 6 Stormfiends + 1 Warlock Bombardier + 1 Doomwheel + 1 Warp ligthning Cannon. After several attempts looking at a mix of Banshees, Chainrasp, Wolves, Spirit Hosts.... I wonder if maybe Lady Olynder + 6 Morghasts bodyguards and 2 battlelines could work as well. At last it would look cool  

...what about the colours? 😊

A) Traditional: Bones & Soul with Shyish-purple armors (following Arkhan/Nagash style).

B) or something different, maybe more gothic/dark (...but now I realised maybe too much close to Necrons....)

See some WIP attached.

[XReN]

27 minutes ago, Eevika said:

The real question is why 5 of each when they come in twos 

Because it was during Fantasy, when you paid points per model

[El Syf]

I'm also in the ten Morghast crew, but all with halberds for me. Was actually looking to get a couple more off ebay as I'm blindly convinced there will be a points reduction again...

[Overread]

I don't know about point reductions - if anything most AoS stuff tends to go up in points at present. I think GW's view is to put points up a bit, lower the number of models required for a 2K standard army since the game is "technically new" and at the very least is gaining a lot of new players. Then in time either the community will raise the points to 3K standard for events or the points will start lowering across the whole game.

Another angle that might boost it is if/when GW releases a large-scale battle rules system (like apoc for 40K) which might also jumpstart encouraging more models on the table. 

 

Morghasts do seem rather expensive at 200points on their own and 100 points each; especailly considering that they are neither super tanky nor do they put out a high number of attacks nor have rerolls on their attacks. 

[deynon]

About magnetizing magnets I yet realized a video, and quite soon I'm going to realise a second part.

In the while:

About usign them usually I play Legion of Night and I play 2 units of them to infiltrate, I play harbringers to be able to charge more easily.

[Sleboda]

On 9/19/2019 at 1:23 AM, Eevika said:

The real question is why 5 of each when they come in twos 

When they came out, that wasn't an issue.

[Sception]

On 9/19/2019 at 7:08 AM, Overread said:

I don't know about point reductions - if anything most AoS stuff tends to go up in points at present.

Iirc, morghasts have gone down in points twice since the first ghb.  GW keeps dropping their points looking for when they'll be ok, but honestly imo that's the wrong solution.  Morghasts, whether you're looking at their lore or their models, are huge, powerful creatures, Nagash's personal handiwork forged from the broken souls of the divine servants of slain rival gods.  They embody and radiate Nagash's own necromantic power.  Honestly, they should weigh in at or over 100 points apiece.  I wouldn't want to see further point drops.

Instead I want to see their stats raised to match the stature & points costs they already have.  Better saves, more wounds, more attacks, maybe a new aura, something more impressive than a bravery debuff.

if they're being reprinted in the bonereapers book, that would be an opportunity to rewrite their scroll.  That's what I want to see, though I'm not holding out much hope for it.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Sception

[Sleboda]

11 hours ago, Sception said:

Instead I want to see their stats raised to match the stature & points costs they already have.  Better saves, more wounds, more attacks, maybe a new aura, something more impressive than a bravery debuff.

Agreed. I'm ok with a points reduction, as I've said, but I certainly would like a power boost as an alternative. Playing the Bravery game is a losing proposition in AoS. It's too easy to remove it as a factor, so units that mess with Bravery are paying points for abilities that largely never come into play.