The Rumour Thread

[Scáthborn]

37 minutes ago, Baron I_oyd said:

 

Good evening everyone, I know most of you are still reeling from today's bad news. Unfortunately, there are more new leaks.

I know a lot of you are playing Total War Warhammer 3. I can officially confirm that if the dlc sales don't double during this year, the current plan is to end the saga in late 2026 / early 2027 with a final dlc called The End Times which will bring the Supereme Lord Nagash and Gray Seer Thanquol with Verminlords in the final cataclysmic dlc for Total War Warhammer 3

At the end of 2027, Warhammer 40K will either be announced or released.

 

This doesn't seem totally unfeasable, TWW2 had a five year life-span between 1 - 3 so ending in 2027 seems right, there is only a finite amount of stuff they can add to it and we knew that TWW3 would be the last one in the series, even if DLC sales increased or not. 

[ScionOfOssia]

Just now, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Speaking of, my gaming group's Discord one has had some interesting responses about the squatting. They think the free Legends BT are a cool move from GW. As we are mostly casual gamers (the tryhard tourney people have left a few years back), I think I'll still see BoC and BS hitting the table if I manage to find our old BS player.

"If the DLC sales don't double" they won't. TWW feels really complete now, already has tons of DLC, and following the shadows of change debacle (which was 100% Sega's fault) and the very delayed release of thrones of decay (alongside the layoffs because once again Sega is making mistakes and paying them by ruining people's jobs and lives), I don't see them selling as much as let's say WH2 DLCs like TK or vampirates. Only big names missing from the game are Nagash, Thanquol and Neferata anyways.

They kind of painted themselves into a corner. They've basically used everyone that anyone actually cares about from Fantasy beyond minor characters, Tamurkhan, Nagash, Thanquol, Elspeth Von Draken, and Neferata. You won't find people enthusiastically gushing about Vladimir DoesntExist for Kislev because until Warhammer 3, they weren't really that expanded.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

26 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Concerning the SE cut I really think it's reall just as simple as they want a cohesive design moving forward with their poster faction. These are all from a brand new game setting in its infancy where design or even rate of said IPs success were up in the air. 

Now that it's not even a question they simply want a solid coherent design throughout the range. 

Sometimes you have to just rip the bandaid off instead of dragging it out. 

I've no doubt we'll see the sacrosanct design again in future releases. 

I honestly think it's quite remarkable that the 1st ed Stormcast look so dated already. There have been some rapid redesigns in early GW history, but I would not have expected it on what is effectively the 9th edition of their fantasy IP. And it's also really interesting that it happened to their new poster boy faction. Other early armies did not age nearly as badly. Well, except Fyreslayers maybe.

[Ragest]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

Did they?  I didn't catch that.  IMO they should have done that with all the dropped stormcast stuff, not 'here's legends rules' but instead 'here's the current warscroll that this old unit counts as'.  They might have had to slightly change what stuff they drop, like keeping the bolt thrower around or whatever, but still.  Far less bad blood that way.

Oh that would be really nice, with both Skaven and Stormcast, but their way to approach marketing implies that they must show stuff one each day, so maybe in the middle of may we know those warscrolls

[Sception]

2 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Also remember : the AoS Beastlord might have had a short lifespan...

But at least it was longer than the 9th edition Guard codex. 

Though I can't blame anyone for believing GW's denials, honestly the writing has been on the wall for Beasts of Chaos since Broken Realms saw Kragnos, who was very obviously designed to be a new faction big boss for beasts of chaos, released as a cross-faction destruction unit.

[Loskelodd]

Well this certainly was not what I was expecting to see out of James Workshop today. Was thinking of a little rat tease, not James beheading 2 factions and enucleating another. I thought we would have to wait a while longer before an announcement.

 

Pretty sad to see the Bonesplitterz go. They where my favorite variant of Orcs in the old WFB days, and they are the basis of my Snakebites army in 40K. Hopefully their legacy will live on with Beastsnaggas. We might even see some of their themes be recycled in the Kruleboyz and Ironjawz.

 

I didn't believe James would flat-out squat the BoC, but the release of an army box containing a Stompa despite how improbable that seems should clearly have taught me I have to expect the unexpected.

I don't know that they will release Beasts as their own faction again, but I think it's possible we might see new Beastmen kits spread all over the Chaos alliance. That's no consolation for those who lost their army, of course.

The theory of some new beastmen kits being  released alongside Chaos Dwarfs intrigued me. That would solve the issue of how to replace their old greenskin chaff. It would be an immense lore downgrade to Beasts, though, that's for sure.

I've seen Kragnos' people be mentioned earlier in the thread. I don't think that one is happening if Kragnos is representative of his species. Destruction already has a Giants faction. Of course it's always possible it's an entire faction of mini-Kragnos but I doubt it. 😄

 

I don't care for the Stormcast kits by themselves, but it's ominous to have an entire swathe of the posterboys get the axe like that. If they can get eliminated so easily, it does not bode well for smaller factions that don't receive nearly as much support. The Wacry news also worry me. I was thinking of getting in with Briar and Bones but I am reconsidering. Those kits might not even be legal a year or two after release for all I know.

 

 

[The Red King]

7 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Customers confidence works different within GW. After AoS 4th, the removal will not be visible in the financial numbers. 

Yes, and by moving it to TOW it will generate a much higher income that just let the BoC mini's linger in AoS. In the end it's simple. A decision like this isn't taken in a wimp. With minimal investment Arcane journal (2 new armies of infamy), a couple of resin miniatures and maybe a plastic kit, it will generate a higher profit that letting BoC stay more or less unsupported in AoS.

It's salty for AoS BoC players, but I do believe this is the case.

I don't understand how only selling the miniatures in ToW could possibly generate more income than selling them in both when they're already going to keep producing the miniatures. Like again they gain the cost of one book in exchange for every BoC sale that might have gone to AoS as well as people like me (who are probably a minority) who are mad enough to stop buying from them entirely. 

 

Like maybe you're just saying the AoS sales are so small it doesn't matter but again it's free money when you're already producing them. 

[Ejecutor]

34 minutes ago, Sception said:

I have to say that I'm surprised we didn't see a bunch of Cursed City stuff getting shifted to Legends for the Gravelords.  They're definitely a faction that needs some winnowing of their own.  Maybe todays article wasn't an exhaustive list of the stuff getting dropped?  Or maybe the Soulblight winnowing won't happen until they're due for a 4e battletome?

I have my doubts also about a second post with the remaining armies... it just feels weird.

[Aphotic]

I had been playing BoC competitively as a primary through 2023. Painted the army up, go it GT ready and so on. Super enjoyable, awesome rules.

Since TOW dropped, I switched systems anyway. As an old head (I started playing for fun in 1994) AOS was always a placeholder for me, and my heart has always been with Fantasy. My army has already been rebased and been used in TOW, and that's my home now.

 

I am sorry, my fellow goats. I remember all those years ago when Ravening Hordes dropped and Chaos Dwarfs got nuked from Orbit, and all my big hats were suddenly uncompetitive. Even with the rules lasting through 6th, the army was just never popular again.

 

You'll legends it for a while, but in the end, BoC is gone, and won't come back to AOS. ****** choice by the design team, just more corporate stupidity and laziness. 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I honestly think it's quite remarkable that the 1st ed Stormcast look so dated already. There have been some rapid redesigns in early GW history, but I would not have expected it on what is effectively the 9th edition of their fantasy IP. And it's also really interesting that it happened to their new poster boy faction. Other early armies did not age nearly as badly. Well, except Fyreslayers maybe.

I would be very careful with FS now. Especially their 1st edition units and foot heroes. This large scale squatting is setting a dangerous precedent for lines GW wants to redo with a whole new design - non thunderstrike SCE have shown that - and considering FS have been the butt of many jokes about their look... now I think the jokes about FS are less funny and more sinister even if I think the army isn't going anywhere.

[Gaz Taylor]

14 minutes ago, Gareth 🍄 said:

Think I'll just stick with my Ironjawz for the foreseeable future. I've already put working on my Kruleboyz on ice (outside of buying the recent Zagnog release) as they feel a bit half-finished as a faction to me. I will of course return to them if they get another wave with cavalry 

Totally get that. I’m going to aim to paint up stuff I have as Spearhead forces (Kruleboys and Flesh Eaters) but focusing on Warmaster at moment as got an event in May😁

[Aphotic]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

I don't understand how only selling the miniatures in ToW could possibly generate more income than selling them in both when they're already going to keep producing the miniatures. Like again they gain the cost of one book in exchange for every BoC sale that might have gone to AoS as well as people like me (who are probably a minority) who are mad enough to stop buying from them entirely. 

 

Like maybe you're just saying the AoS sales are so small it doesn't matter but again it's free money when you're already producing them. 

IIRC there was a rumor about the design teams and sales teams bickering about understanding product support from a sales angle because the company couldn't determine IF TOW was why someone bought a kit, or if it was bought for AOS.

 

Of course, companies nowadays are absolutely hyperfocused on investor returns; as a socialist myself, this has always amused me, because it's abusive to a client base for your profit-seeking to be prime ahead of customer satisfaction. Internal distortions like this in capitalism always amuse me.

TOW, as far as I understand it, is played almost right behind AOS. The AOS design team and the TOW design team, imho, are being unfairly pitted against each other, as workshop tries to figure out which way is the best way forward.

 

Again, SPECULATION, but from a reputable (by reddit standards) source, who had called this very debacle with BoC in AOS a few months ago.

[Mcm6495]

apart from the new liberators that other miniatures think we will get in the fourth edition box for the stormforged.

[Grungnisson]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

I guess today GW lost a lot more than it seems at first glance. They lost trust. Customers will now think twice before buying anything that is old enough that might get hammered. I sure will be careful with my expenditures.

I thought they were supposed to go down in flames in 2015 already?

[Ejecutor]

38 minutes ago, Ragest said:

We can think that 1st edition was about Chaos, so we are repeating the cycle now and next is death or we can think that 1st edition was order and the next one is the start of the cycle.

I don't know wich one looks more promising.

I would pick the order one. Seems the most logical having Malerion in mind.

Edited April 4 by Ejecutor

[Tonhel]

2 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I don't understand how only selling the miniatures in ToW could possibly generate more income than selling them in both when they're already going to keep producing the miniatures. Like again they gain the cost of one book in exchange for every BoC sale that might have gone to AoS as well as people like me (who are probably a minority) who are mad enough to stop buying from them entirely. 

 

Like maybe you're just saying the AoS sales are so small it doesn't matter but again it's free money when you're already producing them. 

Hype combined with nostalgy. It worked wonders with TK and Bretonnia.

The AoS team probably has a hardcap of amount of factions they are allowed to create/support. Sadly BoC and Bonesplitterz had the shortest stick.

 

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Aphotic said:

IIRC there was a rumor about the design teams and sales teams bickering about understanding product support from a sales angle because the company couldn't determine IF TOW was why someone bought a kit, or if it was bought for AOS.

Just give me a button to press at checkout saying which system I'm buying it for. I'd much rather deal with an extra page at checkout than whatever this BS was lol

[The Lost Sigmarite]

3 minutes ago, Aphotic said:

I remember all those years ago when Ravening Hordes dropped and Chaos Dwarfs got nuked from Orbit, and all my big hats were suddenly uncompetitive. Even with the rules lasting through 6th, the army was just never popular again.

This is a very important statement because it shows what is happening right now isn't new - it's part of a time honored GW tradition going back to 2000. 

[RollSixxess]

If you have a BoC force, at least sleep knowing SDS will give you something more than Main Studio have the last 10 years.

Someone might finally do the wild thing and just update a Minotaur without giving it to a random other army or game and calling it an ‘Ogroid’ 

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, Vaellas said:

And
2) I just realised that they said the entire Sacrosant chamber is going away.... There is no Knight Incantor pictured here on this list. Either they missed it off or we can still use it or it is getting an update.

I think the list is which kits are being discontinued rather than which models are being removed (as we already know that Liberators will still be around as thunderstrike liberators), and in that case, knight-incantor doesn't have an official standalone kit, if you're not getting one out of a starter set or one of a bajillion unique sculpts, then the way you get one is by building a foot evocator as an incantor.

That said you can just use a Knight Incantor as a Knight Arcanum if they don't continue to have non-legends rules. Silly that they even thought there needed to be another foot wizard hero but yknow.

[Aphotic]

4 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I would be very careful with FS now. Especially their 1st edition units and foot heroes. This large scale squatting is setting a dangerous precedent for lines GW wants to redo with a whole new design - non thunderstrike SCE have shown that - and considering FS have been the butt of many jokes about their look... now I think the jokes about FS are less funny and more sinister even if I think the army isn't going anywhere.

Having been a workshop player since 1994, I can say the change from a games company to a publicly traded manufacturing company, has changed the way the company looks at it's products. 

I can say with confidence; any army that is easily cross-adaptable with TOW will likely be removed for something more fitting with the hyper-detailed, data driven microcosm GW has designed around 40k/AOS. 

Ogres, the remnant Dark Elves, even some sylvaneth kits, those will be blasted out of the AOS stratosphere, maybe not now, but probably in the next few years. Ogres in specific. And of course, Ogres was my other AOS army.

[Aphotic]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

Just give me a button to press at checkout saying which system I'm buying it for. I'd much rather deal with an extra page at checkout than whatever this BS was lol

Workshop can track any of that online, but cannot do so for brick and mortars. 

Workshop is going to quickly learn that the two systems appeal to two entirely different sets of gamers.

[Sarouan]

See you in 10 years with re-release of first Stormcast Eternal miniatures in The Old Age of Sigmar - Dusty Chambers Edition.

Edited April 4 by Sarouan

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Aphotic said:

Having been a workshop player since 1994, I can say the change from a games company to a publicly traded manufacturing company, has changed the way the company looks at it's products. 

For the better right? Changing over to a system that prioritizes churn and burn profits over everything else made things better of course... right?

[Ejecutor]

39 minutes ago, Sception said:

I highly doubt it.  There's no reason to split vampires and necromancers into separate armies since they'd both be using exactly the same skeletons, wights and zombies as troops, EDIT: and even if you did split the faction, a vampire foot hero cull would still need to happen, especially since the faction kind of needs a new generic cavalry vampire hero.  So yeah, the Cursed City stuff really does need to get kicked to legends sooner or later.

As for new Death factions in general, we haven't even seen a second wave for OBR yet, FEC still have untapped potential for further expansion, and Nighthaunt have several older kits begging for a refresh.  There's really no call or reason for a new death faction any time soon, and no hint or foreshadowing of one in the lore.  IF death are in the starter box for 5e (big if, there isn't even a pattern yet to identify, much less one that can be relied on), then Stormcast vs. wave 2 bonereapers would be the obvious choice.

Really an army with less than 6 years has "old kits begging for a refresh"? Wow. I hope you talk about the three or four fantasy ones.