Vagard Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Gotz said: I think is more nuanced than that. Shields work different on liberatos, sequitors and vindictors. The article says that libs go with shield and hammer, but currently they can use 2 weapons (sword and shield, was merged into the hammer statline) and the 1/5 great weapon. Liberators also have their contest objetive skill... so I don't think is going to be as easy as merging warscrolls. With this new unit everything can change, i will not be surprised if the great weapon is removed. If you look at all new units (darkaoth, CoS, FeC) none of them have a great weapon option anymore. Same for the sword, won't be surprised if the weapon option vanishes. (and same for the contest obj skill and the shield rule) Edited April 2 by Vagard 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Vagard said: Wanna make a poll with only SCE players voting? 😂 More seriously, I don't see why it is a worse option. 2 warscrolls mean 1 whole page in the book, same explanation for both units as they have the same role (battleline, by 5, maybe a standard bearer, a prime...) so a lot of ink just to explain twice the same role with maybe not the same point cost. With the merge : (and the adding of USR) -> This unit can either have sigmarite warhammer or sigmarite spear. If warhammer : (insert USR) if spears : (insert USR) And you'll just have to refer to the rule in the big book, all in 1 warscroll What about dual hammer liberators? What about grandhammers? You would have to create different point values for different weapon options, and that is actually more confusing than having two different warscrolls. It also creates WYSIWYG problems which everyone hates. Merging these units together kills the flavor and you end up increasing complexity in an effort to reduce it. The problem is not the number of warscrolls, the problem is bad warscroll design. If these units had distinct rule niches then nobody would be asking to merge them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 7 minutes ago, Gotz said: Liberators also have their contest objetive skill But would they in the new edition? 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungnisson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 However, what's really interesting now is how deep the resculpt is going to go. We now know it's 100% Liberators and presumably (following the trailer) the Prosecutors and maybe Paladins. What about the rest of the original units? What about the massively chunky heroes? Is the fat boi Prime getting a little trim around the waist? Will we have Thunderstrike and non-Thunderstrike side by side? Or maybe, what's staying is getting a resculpt, but also some units will get cut for good? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, PJetski said: What about dual hammer liberators? What about grandhammers? You would have to create different point values for different weapon options, and that is actually more confusing than having two different warscrolls. It also creates WYSIWYG problems which everyone hates. Merging these units together kills the flavor and you end up increasing complexity in an effort to reduce it. The problem is not the number of warscrolls, the problem is bad warscroll design. If these units had distinct rule niches then nobody would be asking to merge them. IMO all the early units had that many weapon options just because we didn't have more units. Now the trend is just 1/2 weapons per unit in the SCE in most of the cases, so it wouldn't be weird if they remove most of the options from those 1st edition units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungnisson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 That's... very helpful, mate. Ta muchly : > 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarrWolves Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagard Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Grungnisson said: Will we have Thunderstrike and non-Thunderstrike side by side? Or maybe, what's staying is getting a resculpt, but also some units will get cut for good? I think we will see the same as primaris. I mean maybe some units will be squatted but not a lot IMO. Some merging would be good but I think that all will be still playable during this version at least. Maybe the big cleaning will be during next version. 11 minutes ago, PJetski said: What about dual hammer liberators? What about grandhammers? You would have to create different point values for different weapon options, and that is actually more confusing than having two different warscrolls. It also creates WYSIWYG problems which everyone hates. To me GW does not care about things like WYSIWYG, they clearly want to sell new liberators and as the new units of every factions that has been released lastly, they will erase the great weapon and the double weapon option. That's my opinion (also easier ton suppress weapon options for push-fit minis) EDIT : ok bad timing with the answer of the GW CM above, maybe liberators and sequitors will stay separate.. A shame that both units looks like exactly the same except for the helmet and the weapon but that they have different warscrolls Edited April 2 by Vagard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Btw, am I the only one who feels they are a bit phasing out the Roman style just so they don't look "that much" like fantasy Space Marines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Vagard said: they will erase the great weapon and the double weapon option These weapon options already seen in the cinematic trailer, and they wouldn't put them there unless the models had them 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Grungnisson said: Will we have Thunderstrike and non-Thunderstrike side by side? Or maybe, what's staying is getting a resculpt, but also some units will get cut for good? Yes. Or to go into more detail - I think they will slowly redesign all the models that are not wearing Thunderstrike armour and bring them out. It's what they have been doing with Space Marines for years (and other ranges as they get updated through design changes), so this will be no different. The question is, how much will happen for the Stormcast release this year or will we just get lots of new stuff over the next few? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Ejecutor said: Btw, am I the only one who feels they are a bit phasing out the Roman style just so they don't look "that much" like fantasy Space Marines? The roman influences are still there, but they're a lot more subtle than in the old design. The chainmail battle-skirts, the plumes, etc. There are units called Praetors and Imperatant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungnisson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Vagard said: I think we will see the same as primaris. I mean maybe some units will be squatted but not a lot IMO. Some merging would be good but I think that all will be still playable during this version at least. Maybe the big cleaning will be during next version. In all fariness though, it's still probably possible to write enough warscroll variants for the units SCE have. But the gazillion options for a foot hero with a sword, that needs addressing. Please, GW, I beg of you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souleater Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, Tonhel said: The new librator is great. The nose guard still bothers me a bit, but still a solid improvement. After buying the three AoS startersets, I will try to start for the fourth time a SCE army. 🙂 It reminds me of the Cybermen. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, Vagard said: I think we will see the same as primaris. I mean maybe some units will be squatted but not a lot IMO. Some merging would be good but I think that all will be still playable during this version at least. Maybe the big cleaning will be during next version. To me GW does not care about things like WYSIWYG, they clearly want to sell new liberators and as the new units of every factions that has been released lastly, they will erase the great weapon and the double weapon option. That's my opinion (also easier ton suppress weapon options for push-fit minis) EDIT : ok bad timing with the answer of the GW CM above, maybe liberators and sequitors will stay separate.. I would also merge the two. I also think that swords/hammers will be just one one weapon type like it is with Chaos Warriors. Which resembles their basic attack. Two weapons should be for all the units in game the same. I.e reroll ones to hit or better +1 attack. Shields should give for all the units in the game the same bonus. Whatever it may be, but it's anything but streamlined that a shield for each unit in game can have a different effect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: The side-by-side between the new and old Liberators from the article really puts things into perspective: I wonder how the reception of Stormcast would have been if they had looked like this from the start. 1 hour ago, Nezzhil said: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/02/liberators-reforged-heed-sigmars-call-with-the-first-miniature-of-the-new-edition/ Very nice perportions but i really think they should have given him the tassels beacuse let be honesg that just a Vindicator with hammer. But the hallow knight color scheme is fire. No skaven tho bet @Garrac fuming 14 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Btw, am I the only one who feels they are a bit phasing out the Roman style just so they don't look "that much" like fantasy Space Marines? I don't think so Edited April 2 by Dragon-knight77 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 8 minutes ago, Souleater said: It reminds me of the Cybermen. Hah! I knew the look was familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 6 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Very nice perportions but i really think they should have given him the tassels beacuse let be honesg that just a Vindicator with hammer. But the hallow knight color scheme is fire. No skaven tho bet @Garrac fuming I don't think so I allways knew Fantasy marines were going to be the first preview, it's an easy to predict GW patterns A rat mini should be revealed next week (monday?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Red Lines Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 6 hours ago, GhostShark said: Thats what Indexes are though. Rules that last until an army gets a book. We've seen this before multiple times. It also makes zero sense to move BOC to legends at the beginning of the edition. The entire point of Indexes is they can release them all at once, and then get around to doing books when they get around to it. Even if thats never. If thats the case with BOC, they'll be on their index until they get a new book or until the next set of indexes. Legends is specified early on though. Its rules that they no longer acknowledge and will no longer update through battlescroll patches or FAQs. Same as the dark elves and ogors for old world. If they abandon beasts they will for sure get an index. But it'll be an index that is clearly marked as legends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lost Sigmarite Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Yeah we definitely get a clanrat next week. I’m betting on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarrWolves Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said: Yeah we definitely get a clanrat next week. I’m betting on it. Why not tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) Huge waste of resources. Not only I think that changes are purely cosmetic but even some like helmet or kilt are a downgrade from its previous version. Meanwhile Beasts of Chaos, Ogors, Dark Elves, Spiderfang, Bonesplitterz and like 90% of Chaos daemons beg for a refresh. Go on, refresh sequitors next year. Edited April 2 by Aeryenn 2 2 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, KarrWolves said: Why not tomorrow? There's a long three-week wait. They cannot have 90 articles for the Ruination box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagard Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Aeryenn said: Meanwhile Beasts of Chaos, Ogors, Dark Elves, Spiderfang, Bonesplitterz and like 90% of Chaos daemons beg for a refresh. Go on, refresh sequitors next year. Poster boys privilege 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarrWolves Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Ejecutor said: There's a long three-week wait. They cannot have 90 articles for the Ruination box. 40k 10th edition had had 36 articles + 24 faction focus, I'm expecting something similar for AoS. That's a lot of articles... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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