The Rumour Thread

[Hawke]

Sorry to bring up BoC again, but if we look at the Gdubs pattern recently it seems they have been doing the opposite of squatting recently. E.g. In 40k, LoV got unsquatted, the Kroot who were looking dated and who I don't often see on the table, massive new range. The Old World, an entire gaming system along with Brets and TKs all unsquatted.

So the idea that "hmm yes BoC gonna get squatted" seems so against the grain to me. I think people have tunnel vision on what happened with CoS models, which were always a hodge podge mix of armies before the update, probably in order just to have things to sell as they transitioned to AoS. Why waste the molds, they're expensive. Though I think Gdubs did such a good job in the lore writing that CoS went from a weird mix of models to somehow making sense, so much so that people actively miss the strange mixture that the early CoS was. 

GW is so big now that surely even their worse selling models probably still sell well enough to justify their existence.

So leave my goats alone! 🐐 They'll get their day in the Sun and it's gonna be glorious!

But in all serious no disrespect to anyone's opinion, but I'm always gonna back the beasts.

[Gutsu17]

2 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Sorry to bring up BoC again, but if we look at the Gdubs pattern recently it seems they have been doing the opposite of squatting recently. E.g. In 40k, LoV got unsquatted, the Kroot who were looking dated and who I don't often see on the table, massive new range. The Old World, an entire gaming system along with Brets and TKs all unsquatted.

So the idea that "hmm yes BoC gonna get squatted" seems so against the grain to me. I think people have tunnel vision on what happened with CoS models, which were always a hodge podge mix of armies before the update, probably in order just to have things to sell as they transitioned to AoS. Why waste the molds, they're expensive. Though I think Gdubs did such a good job in the lore writing that CoS went from a weird mix of models to somehow making sense, so much so that people actively miss the strange mixture that the early CoS was. 

GW is so big now that surely even their worse selling models probably still sell well enough to justify their existence.

So leave my goats alone! 🐐 They'll get their day in the Sun and it's gonna be glorious!

But in all serious no disrespect to anyone's opinion, but I'm always gonna back the beasts.

Absolutely aggree with you, gw doesnt squat things just because they want, or because they are old and ugly, or because they are unpopular, they may not invest in it, but they arent squatting it unless theres a financial reason.

Gw squats thing when they dont have money to support it, thats why prior to 40k 8th ed and closing of FB, they were phasing out specialist games (epic, battlefleet, mordheim, necromunda and more) which culminated in Warhammer fantasy being squatted as a result of being less valuable than 40k (if 8th ed wasnt as much of a success that it was, gw would start squatting 40k factions until we are left only with space marines). Now GW has plenty of money, and can allow itself to support more nieche things, thus the comeback of a bunch of old stuff and even more of it in the form of Killteam, warcry, underworlds. So i personally take any rumors of squatting with a giant grain of salt, gw will be squatting things when space marines cant support this thing with their sales anymore, thats how it works, and space marines are selling like hotcakes currently

[Pizzaprez]

7 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

Absolutely aggree with you, gw doesnt squat things just because they want, or because they are old and ugly, or because they are unpopular, they may not invest in it, but they arent squatting it unless theres a financial reason.

Gw squats thing when they dont have money to support it, thats why prior to 40k 8th ed and closing of FB, they were phasing out specialist games (epic, battlefleet, mordheim, necromunda and more) which culminated in Warhammer fantasy being squatted as a result of being less valuable than 40k (if 8th ed wasnt as much of a success that it was, gw would start squatting 40k factions until we are left only with space marines). Now GW has plenty of money, and can allow itself to support more nieche things, thus the comeback of a bunch of old stuff and even more of it in the form of Killteam, warcry, underworlds. So i personally take any rumors of squatting with a giant grain of salt, gw will be squatting things when space marines cant support this thing with their sales anymore, thats how it works, and space marines are selling like hotcakes currently

16 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Sorry to bring up BoC again, but if we look at the Gdubs pattern recently it seems they have been doing the opposite of squatting recently. E.g. In 40k, LoV got unsquatted, the Kroot who were looking dated and who I don't often see on the table, massive new range. The Old World, an entire gaming system along with Brets and TKs all unsquatted.

So the idea that "hmm yes BoC gonna get squatted" seems so against the grain to me. I think people have tunnel vision on what happened with CoS models, which were always a hodge podge mix of armies before the update, probably in order just to have things to sell as they transitioned to AoS. Why waste the molds, they're expensive. Though I think Gdubs did such a good job in the lore writing that CoS went from a weird mix of models to somehow making sense, so much so that people actively miss the strange mixture that the early CoS was. 

GW is so big now that surely even their worse selling models probably still sell well enough to justify their existence.

So leave my goats alone! 🐐 They'll get their day in the Sun and it's gonna be glorious!

But in all serious no disrespect to anyone's opinion, but I'm always gonna back the beasts.

I doubt GW is going to squat the Beast model range entirely; they're already in TOW and there's no way they're walking it back. 

I do think it is not outside the realm of possibility that GW shifts the faction entirely to TOW, selling them on squares, and Beasts don't get a 4.0 battletome. I could absolutely see a plastic Centigor kit dropping for TOW that was initially meant for AoS: folding the Beasts update into TOW would be an easy way to give that game an "army with brand new sculpts!" that they don't have to whip up fresh.

This is the same GW that released those "Warriors of the Great Cities!" box sets right before they dropped a bunch of those units in the 2.0 Cities tome, lol. I'm not really pessimistic towards GW in regards to the toys they produce, but I am very pessimistic about how they handle their games and rules tbh.

[Hawke]

1 minute ago, Pizzaprez said:

I doubt GW is going to squat the Beast model range entirely; they're already in TOW and there's no way they're walking it back. 

I do think it is not outside the realm of possibility that GW shifts the faction entirely to TOW, selling them on squares, and Beasts don't get a 4.0 battletome. I could absolutely see a plastic Centigor kit dropping for TOW that was initially meant for AoS: folding the Beasts update into TOW would be an easy way to give that game an "army with brand new sculpts!" that they don't have to whip up fresh.

This is the same GW that released those "Warriors of the Great Cities!" box sets right before they dropped a bunch of those units in the 2.0 Cities tome, lol. I'm not really pessimistic towards GW in regards to the toys they produce, but I am very pessimistic about how they handle their games and rules tbh.

I understand this point, and while I'd still play with a beastmen army in ToW and buy the new models, it would seem strange to me for them not to also support them in AoS. Even if the only AoS-exclusive thing for them is a rulebook.

It just seems more effort to remove them than leave them in at this point.

[Gaz Taylor]

6 minutes ago, Hawke said:

It just seems more effort to remove them than leave them in at this point.

If they aren't selling, they will go. However, it's all rumours so please don't think too much about it.

I suspect they are getting a refresh at some point and I think this will be for anything which can be used in The Old World. However, that doesn't mean it will be this year or even next year. I've heard that GW are looking to build a new factory as they are struggling to keep up with demand, which will probably be even more when the Amazon shows hit (wonder if Warhammer + animations will go to Amazon?).

[Pizzaprez]

4 minutes ago, Hawke said:

I understand this point, and while I'd still play with a beastmen army in ToW and buy the new models, it would seem strange to me for them not to also support them in AoS. Even if the only AoS-exclusive thing for them is a rulebook.

It just seems more effort to remove them than leave them in at this point.

I agree completely! They even sold the entire range of Chaos Demons with both circle and square bases in the box for years!! 

But there's a lot of precedent for this in AoS, even if I hate it. From where I'm standing, the only reason Cities still have Steam Tanks any Duardin is because they're filling tactical niches that the army wouldn't have otherwise. With Dwarfs getting added to TOW, I think their days in Cities are numbered. 

With all the narrative work they did for cities, I'm with you that I'd rather see the entirety of HElves, DElves, and WElves added to Cities rules-wise even if I have to source circle bases for them. As it stands, I think GW would rather me counts-as everything that isn't in the book by default instead of trying to strike an internal balance between like four or five different armies under the same umbrella. 

WElves were cut from cities, and will be back with all their missing stuff for TOW while now being unable to be "officially" used in AoS. To me, that's crazy. I'd love to build a swifthawk chariot! 

It even looks like GW is bringing back the old chaos warriors so they don't have the same sculpt for the same dudes in both settings. Idk; I hate it, and it's still a rumor, but it's completely within the realm of possibility for me based on how GW has handled things with AoS and TOW

[RetconnedLegion]

29 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

Absolutely aggree with you, gw doesnt squat things just because they want, or because they are old and ugly, or because they are unpopular, they may not invest in it, but they arent squatting it unless theres a financial reason.

Gw squats thing when they dont have money to support it, thats why prior to 40k 8th ed and closing of FB, they were phasing out specialist games (epic, battlefleet, mordheim, necromunda and more) which culminated in Warhammer fantasy being squatted as a result of being less valuable than 40k (if 8th ed wasnt as much of a success that it was, gw would start squatting 40k factions until we are left only with space marines). Now GW has plenty of money, and can allow itself to support more nieche things, thus the comeback of a bunch of old stuff and even more of it in the form of Killteam, warcry, underworlds. So i personally take any rumors of squatting with a giant grain of salt, gw will be squatting things when space marines cant support this thing with their sales anymore, thats how it works, and space marines are selling like hotcakes currently

GW also squat things when they have no creative direction to take them in. That was the reason why the Squats vanished in the first place. As second edition was coming around, they were moving away from “Fantasy in Space” and there just wasn’t a consistent vision on where to take the Squats. Compared to their Epic incarnation, where the scale allowed the focus on their feats of engineering and so they remained in the game longer,  they were all over the place.

Beastmen have maintained a consistent creative style in AoS, and have a creative niche. There’s no reason to remove them narratively or financially.

[PJetski]

I want to be the first one to predict AOS 4th ed releasing June 22

[Pizzaprez]

3 minutes ago, RetconnedLegion said:

GW also squat things when they have no creative direction to take them in. That was the reason why the Squats vanished in the first place. As second edition was coming around, they were moving away from “Fantasy in Space” and there just wasn’t a consistent vision on where to take the Squats. Compared to their Epic incarnation, where the scale allowed the focus on their feats of engineering and so they remained in the game longer,  they were all over the place.

Beastmen have maintained a consistent creative style in AoS, and have a creative niche. There’s no reason to remove them narratively or financially.

The best-case (and what I'd like to see) is that the Beast refresh is Lumineth tier and will be unique enough to live side-by-side with the current range. The current army could get "squatted" in favor of an AoS version of the same guys and the model range scooted over to TOW. That'd please absolutely everyone! 

[RetconnedLegion]

1 minute ago, Pizzaprez said:

I agree completely! They even sold the entire range of Chaos Demons with both circle and square bases in the box for years!! 

But there's a lot of precedent for this in AoS, even if I hate it. From where I'm standing, the only reason Cities still have Steam Tanks any Duardin is because they're filling tactical niches that the army wouldn't have otherwise. With Dwarfs getting added to TOW, I think their days in Cities are numbered. 

With all the narrative work they did for cities, I'm with you that I'd rather see the entirety of HElves, DElves, and WElves added to Cities rules-wise even if I have to source circle bases for them. As it stands, I think GW would rather me counts-as everything that isn't in the book by default instead of trying to strike an internal balance between like four or five different armies under the same umbrella. 

WElves were cut from cities, and will be back with all their missing stuff for TOW while now being unable to be "officially" used in AoS. To me, that's crazy. I'd love to build a swifthawk chariot! 

It even looks like GW is bringing back the old chaos warriors so they don't have the same sculpt for the same dudes in both settings. Idk; I hate it, and it's still a rumor, but it's completely within the realm of possibility for me based on how GW has handled things with AoS and TOW

Except it’s a different situation with the Aelves. While the Wood and High Elf models have gone, their aesthetic and creative niche remain - in the form of Sylvaneth and Lumineth respectively. That’s why they are gone and Dark Elves remain. I’ve no doubt that should “Umbraneth” become a reality, Dark Elf Kits will go. Same with the cities Duardin and Steam tanks. When there’s a true standard dwarfs Duardin and cog-vehicles they’ll go.

Beasts of Chaos haven’t had their niche filled by another. Aesthetically they’re the only wild, savage Chaos force. Until GW make “Creatures of Chaos” or something, there’s no real reason to assume their imminent squatting.

[Pizzaprez]

1 minute ago, RetconnedLegion said:

Except it’s a different situation with the Aelves. While the Wood and High Elf models have gone, their aesthetic and creative niche remain - in the form of Sylvaneth and Lumineth respectively. That’s why they are gone and Dark Elves remain. I’ve no doubt that should “Umbraneth” become a reality, Dark Elf Kits will go. Same with the cities Duardin and Steam tanks. When there’s a true standard dwarfs Duardin and cog-vehicles they’ll go.

Beasts of Chaos haven’t had their niche filled by another. Aesthetically they’re the only wild, savage Chaos force. Until GW make “Creatures of Chaos” or something, there’s no real reason to assume their imminent squatting.

But, as of now, GW seemingly does not want to have any cross-game models between AoS and TOW: Beastmen are one of the core Evil factions in TOW. 

If GW is really about to re release the old Chaos Warriors so they don't match TOW, I could see them not having beasts in both settings. They could be looking at the rumored Chaos Duardin as filling the same "[other] Chaos" faction slot. I don't think I'd be thrilled, but it could happen. I'd prefer to see a beastmen reboot, but GW has been weird.

[01rtb01]

1 hour ago, Pizzaprez said:

I agree completely! They even sold the entire range of Chaos Demons with both circle and square bases in the box for years!! 

But there's a lot of precedent for this in AoS, even if I hate it. From where I'm standing, the only reason Cities still have Steam Tanks any Duardin is because they're filling tactical niches that the army wouldn't have otherwise. With Dwarfs getting added to TOW, I think their days in Cities are numbered. 

With all the narrative work they did for cities, I'm with you that I'd rather see the entirety of HElves, DElves, and WElves added to Cities rules-wise even if I have to source circle bases for them. As it stands, I think GW would rather me counts-as everything that isn't in the book by default instead of trying to strike an internal balance between like four or five different armies under the same umbrella. 

WElves were cut from cities, and will be back with all their missing stuff for TOW while now being unable to be "officially" used in AoS. To me, that's crazy. I'd love to build a swifthawk chariot! 

It even looks like GW is bringing back the old chaos warriors so they don't have the same sculpt for the same dudes in both settings. Idk; I hate it, and it's still a rumor, but it's completely within the realm of possibility for me based on how GW has handled things with AoS and TOW

I was looking at starting dwarves for TOW but the ironbreakers and hammerers seem awful compared to the warriors/ miners/ crossbows or is it just me? Compared with the old metals they seem to have lost a lot. Comparatively the plastic dark elf range is glorious... and useful in both AoS and TOW...

[Gutsu17]

10 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:

But, as of now, GW seemingly does not want to have any cross-game models between AoS and TOW: Beastmen are one of the core Evil factions in TOW. 

If GW is really about to re release the old Chaos Warriors so they don't match TOW, I could see them not having beasts in both settings. They could be looking at the rumored Chaos Duardin as filling the same "[other] Chaos" faction slot. I don't think I'd be thrilled, but it could happen. I'd prefer to see a beastmen reboot, but GW has been weird.

You are reading into it too much imho, "We want the games to be separated" and "We dont want any cross compatibility" are very different, and its seems that the second one is true, they added support for Boingrot Bounderz for example, while it is probably their general rule, i dont think its one of those thingws they follow to the tee, look at horus heresy, new stuff for HH is only usable in HH, but it still uses a bunch of 40k modelslike scouts

[Gutsu17]

11 minutes ago, 01rtb01 said:

I was looking at starting dwarves for TOW but the ironbreakers and hammerers seem awful compared to the warriors/ miners/ crossbows or is it just me? Compared with the old metals they seem to have lost a lot. Comparatively the plastic dark elf range is glorious... and useful in both AoS and TOW...

Cant agree with you on the Ironbreakers, but old Longbeards are awesome, love them

[Hawke]

13 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:

But, as of now, GW seemingly does not want to have any cross-game models between AoS and TOW: Beastmen are one of the core Evil factions in TOW. 

If GW is really about to re release the old Chaos Warriors so they don't match TOW, I could see them not having beasts in both settings. They could be looking at the rumored Chaos Duardin as filling the same "[other] Chaos" faction slot. I don't think I'd be thrilled, but it could happen. I'd prefer to see a beastmen reboot, but GW has been weird.

I feel/hope the not wanting dual kits for ToW and AoS is more that they don't want to restrict their sculpters having to make new AoS models that also have to be able to rank up on square bases. I don't think it means any pre-existing model in AoS will have to be squatted as it can also be used in ToW.

I think it's more about allowing AoS modelers creative freedom for cool sculpts. With BoC being in both settings, I can imagine them making new chariots for ToW and heroes like wargors, while also taking a new direction for AoS beasts.

[Pizzaprez]

7 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

You are reading into it too much imho, "We want the games to be separated" and "We dont want any cross compatibility" are very different, and its seems that the second one is true, they added support for Boingrot Bounderz for example, while it is probably their general rule, i dont think its one of those thingws they follow to the tee, look at horus heresy, new stuff for HH is only usable in HH, but it still uses a bunch of 40k modelslike scouts

I want to be wrong so bad! I'd be very salty if Beasts got into AoS, lost the ability to get marked AGAIN, then were just dropped from the setting entirely. 

We'll see! I'm hoping I/me this rumor are wrong, but I could see GW doing something silly like this.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

16 minutes ago, RetconnedLegion said:

Beasts of Chaos haven’t had their niche filled by another. Aesthetically they’re the only wild, savage Chaos force. Until GW make “Creatures of Chaos” or something, there’s no real reason to assume their imminent squatting.

Narratively, GW seems to have filled the "threat from the dark, untamed wilds" with Kruleboyz. They even had a teaser image about eyes shining from the dark woods or something. I like Kruleboyz just fine but when they revealed the image was for a new breed of orruk and NOT new Beastmen, I said a bad word or two.

They don't even have horns. Losers.

[Gutsu17]

3 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:

I want to be wrong so bad! I'd be very salty if Beasts got into AoS, lost the ability to get marked AGAIN, then were just dropped from the setting entirely. 

We'll see! I'm hoping I/me this rumor are wrong, but I could see GW doing something silly like this.

If anything, GW can turn beasts into units in chaos armies, Slaangors for slaanesh, Tzaangors for Tzeentch, normal Bestigors for S2Ds, and the same for pestigores and khorngors

[Flippy]

33 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

If they aren't selling, they will go. However, it's all rumours so please don't think too much about it.

C'mon, GW creates induced demand. If the faction is not selling it is usually because it has been left without any development for a long time. Whether it's GW out of creative juices or the business decision is made to prioritise something else (understandably, they cannot do everything at once).

I can imagine that they should track sales in particular with regard to new releases; if they put a lot of effort into new / refreshed faction and the sales are still sub-optimal then yeah, that would be something to consider. But the sales argument is simply unfair when used against factions that lack any real development for years. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

4 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

To quote something a great man said once....

Please treat anything like Beasts of Chaos being dropped as a range as a rumour. Until it happens, its a rumour. If you are a BOC player, carry on playing with your models. If you are thinking about getting a BOC army, you might want to wait just in case.  

Yes GW are a company out to make money and yes they can change things without notice. But for now, take it with a pinch of salt  

I've been talking about the Beasts removal for ages, but I want to throw in my opinion: this isn't even a rumor. It's been thoroughly unsupported by anyone aside from Rob, and to date Whitefang the Wise (Wisefang ha) hasn't addressed it at all.

Is it worth discussing? Sure, we all care about this game and it's direction. Is this possibility going to stop me from pooping in the woods and bleating at the moon? Hell nah.

[Pizzaprez]

21 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

If anything, GW can turn beasts into units in chaos armies, Slaangors for slaanesh, Tzaangors for Tzeentch, normal Bestigors for S2Ds, and the same for pestigores and khorngors

I'd be okay with this: one could proxy the rest of each of those factions as "beasts" to get a god-aligned "beastman" army. I'd be sad to see 'em lose their herdstone-centric monster mash though! If beasts get completely squatted in AoS, this will probably be what happens.

12 minutes ago, Flippy said:

C'mon, GW creates induced demand. If the faction is not selling it is usually because it has been left without any development for a long time. Whether it's GW out of creative juices or the business decision is made to prioritise something else (understandably, they cannot do everything at once).

I can imagine that they should track sales in particular with regard to new releases; if they put a lot of effort into new / refreshed faction and the sales are still sub-optimal then yeah, that would be something to consider. But the sales argument is simply unfair when used against factions that lack any real development for years. 

The "we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" meme comes to mind here; I saw a big outpouring of enthusiasm when the Fyerslayer egg-fanatics seemingly addressed a lot of design critiques people had about 'em! I'm excited to see the future of that faction!

Beasts haven't been given love in AoS. The new models they got were primarily for other armies and they got one book where they got to play nice with god-specific armies before they dropped that too. New models for AoS were often seen as stepping on the toes (hooves?) of the beastmen, like Kragnos and Ogoroids. We got new lore in the form of Morghur's AoS version, but I dont think Beastmen have got anything "AoS Specific." Not even in Warcry; Beasts got a 40k killteam instead.

I've been figuring surely we'll eventually break into Azyr and the Dragon Ogors will have their time in the spotlight: it'd be a perfect opportunity for new models and a new centerpiece character! I'd be disappointed if GW dropped beasts with nothing to replace them, but I can't say I'd be too too surprised.

I'm just going to have positive vibes and really really really hope that GW has an AoS beastmen reboot army hidden away as a surprise instead of them deciding "ah, well we're about to release the other niche chaos faction with the duardin; each setting should really only have one niche chaos faction."

Edited February 1 by Pizzaprez

[Luperci]

57 minutes ago, RetconnedLegion said:

Except it’s a different situation with the Aelves. While the Wood and High Elf models have gone, their aesthetic and creative niche remain - in the form of Sylvaneth and Lumineth respectively. That’s why they are gone and Dark Elves remain. I’ve no doubt that should “Umbraneth” become a reality, Dark Elf Kits will go. Same with the cities Duardin and Steam tanks. When there’s a true standard dwarfs Duardin and cog-vehicles they’ll go.

Beasts of Chaos haven’t had their niche filled by another. Aesthetically they’re the only wild, savage Chaos force. Until GW make “Creatures of Chaos” or something, there’s no real reason to assume their imminent squatting.

Hot take but I really don't think AoS needs "standard dwarfs" the mechanical stuff is already covered by kharadron and the traditional dwarf fortress hold stuff is covered by fyreslayers, both just need a release wave to round out their rosters

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Luperci said:

Hot take but I really don't think AoS needs "standard dwarfs" the mechanical stuff is already covered by kharadron and the traditional dwarf fortress hold stuff is covered by fyreslayers, both just need a release wave to round out their rosters

Yeah, having "normal person" versions of dwarves, elves and humans is necessary for believability. We already have humans and elves (kinda). Time for dorfs next.

[EntMan]

16 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:

Beasts haven't been given love in AoS.

Ironically it's totally fitting with Beastmen lore (in all settings) that even out of universe they get no love 😢

[Snarff]

I think people are way overestimating the influence TOW is going to have on AoS. It's a smaller specialist game, it's not going to be driving decisions for their flagship fantasy game. 30K is also not leading to entire 40K armies or model ranges being cut for the benefit of 30K, or suddenly changing the design language of 40K because it had a succesful launch.