Vasshpit Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Sprues&Brews said: We check out book 2 of the Dawnbringers series in out full written review! https://spruesandbrews.com/2023/09/16/dawnbringers-book-2-reign-of-the-brute-review-and-destruction-unboxing-warhammer-age-of-sigmar/ We also check out all the new models! I had no idea the Brute Ragerz had all those options available to each model!!!🤩 Magnets here I come!!! Does that mean each rager can be equipped however you want or does a unit have to have all the same? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarff Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 1 hour ago, KingBrodd said: Reign of the Brute Discussion thread. There will be SPOILERS there so avoid untill you have read the book. Also keep them SPOILERS OUT OF THE RUMOUR THREAD. What's the policy on Harbingers spoilers now? Are they still to be avoided or can we talk about the contents of that book openly now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyrical Sophist Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Snarff said: What's the policy on Harbingers spoilers now? Are they still to be avoided or can we talk about the contents of that book openly now? There is a lore spoiler thread I think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawi not Duardin Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jagged Red Lines said: Eh, I mean they still write stupid characters like Orcs, Trolls and Gargants with working class regional accents from the South of England. As someone brought up in that environment, and struggling with the stigma of my accent for most of my white collar career, I find it pretty offensive tbh. GW still has a long way to go. I don't think this is incompatible with what I wrote. What I tried to say is that they are trying to modernize on this front, especially in fantasy. Rewriting the savage orcs would be an obvious step in that direction, but that doesn't preclude other steps too. So that puts them at a crossroads. Also, not to come off as dismissive, but I think the orc issue is a more obvious step in that direction than the accents. British accent discrimination is a real thing in the UK - I'm Swedish, not British, but I lived there for 6 years and saw quite a lot of it - but most people globally don't understand the subtleties of it. It's way too local. It's closer to my own Scandinavian annoyance at Norsca being Chaos worshippers in later editions of WHFB. I don't like it, but I'll survive: I'm still very well off on a global scale. Whereas people have raised racial concerns about he portrayal of orcs in all kinds of media since Tolkien. Edited September 16, 2023 by Dawi not Duardin 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Snarff said: What's the policy on Harbingers spoilers now? Are they still to be avoided or can we talk about the contents of that book openly now? You can talk about Spoilers in the thread Ive linked above but not in the Rumour Thread. The book isnt available to the public yet so no doubt none of us have read it. You can discuss spoilers in this linked thread here and this thread alone unless a new thread is created and tagged as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) What do we expect tomorrow for the pre orders? Maybe the CoS vs Ogors Warcry box due to the instagram picture? Also, could it be that the price increase from Dawnbringers 1 to 2 could be due to the IJ suplement included in book 2? Edited September 16, 2023 by Ejecutor 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: What do we expect tomorrow for the pre orders? Maybe the CoS vs Ogors Warcry box due to the instagram picture? GW like to alternate between 40k and aos releases so maybe space marines preorder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: You can talk about Spoilers in the thread Ive linked above but not in the Rumour Thread. The book isnt available to the public yet so no doubt none of us have read it. You can discuss spoilers in this linked thread here and this thread alone unless a new thread is created and tagged as such. Harbingers was Book 1, Reign of The Brute is Book 2. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarff Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 3 hours ago, KingBrodd said: You can talk about Spoilers in the thread Ive linked above but not in the Rumour Thread. The book isnt available to the public yet so no doubt none of us have read it. You can discuss spoilers in this linked thread here and this thread alone unless a new thread is created and tagged as such. No I meant spoilers for the first book, sorry for the confusion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 19 hours ago, Dawi not Duardin said: This is not bad speculation. There are two other reasons to skip the Bonsplitterz too: Models aged and need replacement. Very hard to write them without unfortunate racial implications. It was admittedly even worse back in WHFB when savage orcs often were from the Southlands ("Africa"), did a lot of tribal drumming and dancing, and were... well, less civilized than standard orcs. While the Bonesplitterz are less blatant than that, the memory still lingers - at the same time as it's easy to understand why they got rid of the category "black orcs." In general, GW are attempting to tune in to more modern sensibilities, and maybe that means some of the stereotypical bits from WHFB ought to go. Hence, I guess the Bonesplitterz are in a bit of a Slaanesh situation: either GW has to come up with a way to reinvent them that isn't too offensive, or they might consider dropping them entirely. It is a bit sad that this kind of changes are happening if they are done to acommodote to the "nowdays culture". Fantasy is fantasy in the end, and have to be looked at with a different prism, specially when you have a massive range to pick from. You don't like black ors because they are named "black", I am pretty sure there's something else you can pick. And hopefully Bonsplitterz find a way to be mantained (specially for all of you liking/ playing them). I think they lost most of their "negative" feelings already. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungnisson Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: It is a bit sad that this kind of changes are happening if they are done to acommodote to the "nowdays culture". Fantasy is fantasy in the end, and have to be looked at with a different prism, specially when you have a massive range to pick from. You don't like black ors because they are named "black", I am pretty sure there's something else you can pick. And hopefully Bonsplitterz find a way to be mantained (specially for all of you liking/ playing them). I think they lost most of their "negative" feelings already. The problem with that is that fantasy isn't just fantasy. It's created by people who more or less intentionally infuse it with tropes and constructs from the world around them. There's little doubt today that Tolkien was by today's standard racist and boy, is that showing in LotR... So no, it's not 'sad', it's the exact opposite. What would be sad, it'd be if they cowardly (and lazily) followed the old paradigm, instead of challenging it giving us, as a result, a much more rich, varied and adequate game world. Bring on different body shapes for humas. Bring on different complexions, sizes, genders. The Mortal Realms are so much more than the distorted facsimile of our own world TOW was. Why not explore it to its full potential? 20 1 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 41 minutes ago, Snarff said: No I meant spoilers for the first book, sorry for the confusion. No that is my fault for not reading carefully!! How long has Harbingers been out now? 2 months? I think thats time enough for it to be openly discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, Grungnisson said: The problem with that is that fantasy isn't just fantasy. It's created by people who more or less intentionally infuse it with tropes and constructs from the world around them. There's little doubt today that Tolkien was by today's standard racist and boy, is that showing in LotR... So no, it's not 'sad', it's the exact opposite. What would be sad, it'd be if they cowardly (and lazily) followed the old paradigm, instead of challenging it giving us, as a result, a much more rich, varied and adequate game world. Bring on different body shapes for humas. Bring on different complexions, sizes, genders. The Mortal Realms are so much more than the distorted facsimile of our own world TOW was. Why not explore it to its full potential? I don't think one thing and the other are exclusive between them. It is incompatible to have diversity between the humans and Black Orks or Bonsplitterz? That's what I mean is sad. We can have Black Orks and (just a super quick and random idea) to dilute a bit its "racist" feeling create as well Yellow, Blue and Pink Orks. And pum, 0 problems imo. It is true also that I have the feeling Black as a word is more problematic in english that for me as a spanish, so maybe I don't see it so negative. Conclusion, what I mean is that you can maintain the old stuff and include more modern stuff as well without the need to removing what is old, if those are the reasons to remove it. If it is have a nice, deep and proper lore explantion that makes the overall mass of players happy, I am totally happy for it. Just remove them when it is something resulting from the game itself, not from "outside factors". 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: No that is my fault for not reading carefully!! How long has Harbingers been out now? 2 months? I think thats time enough for it to be openly discussed. So we can talk now about how Nagash was killed by that lonely Squig freely? Nice! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 I can’t believe Klonk’s first action was to singlehandedly crush Archaon’s spine and declare “It’s over, Archaon Everchosen, this is the Age of Sigmar: Dawnbringers: Book II - Reign of The Brute (Limited Edition)” 1 1 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 Beware Sigmar, Age of Klonk sounds really good 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawi not Duardin Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Grungnisson said: The problem with that is that fantasy isn't just fantasy. It's created by people who more or less intentionally infuse it with tropes and constructs from the world around them. There's little doubt today that Tolkien was by today's standard racist and boy, is that showing in LotR... So no, it's not 'sad', it's the exact opposite. What would be sad, it'd be if they cowardly (and lazily) followed the old paradigm, instead of challenging it giving us, as a result, a much more rich, varied and adequate game world. Bring on different body shapes for humas. Bring on different complexions, sizes, genders. The Mortal Realms are so much more than the distorted facsimile of our own world TOW was. Why not explore it to its full potential? Adding to this. Some fantasy is of course more real world-inspired than other. Sometimes people find real-life influences and parallells where there are none, and such criticism can be very far-fetched. But the Black Orcs were literally created in lore to be a slave race by the Chorfs. Due to the reference to slavery, it's too in-your-face for criticism to be far-fetched. In general, the WHFB universe is extremely real-world inspired, whereas AoS doesn't have to rely on that kinda stuff. Doing away with places like the Southlands and Araby and Lustria, which GW treated rather ham-fistedly, really helps them to create more novel ideas. For example, it helps that Orcs/Orruks have become Ardboyz, Bonesplitterz and Kruleboyz rather than Greenskins (redskins, anyone?), Black Orcs and Savage Orcs. It helps that Lizardmen have become space-faring Seraphon rather than indigenous Americans. It helps that the most prominent (quasi-)human knights are thunder-infused demigods rather than (quasi-)European crusaders. Etc. These kinds of changes do in fact put AoS in the position where criticism of its internal politics tends to look like it is on the far-fetched side, whereas you easily can argue that many aspects of WHFB were rather problematic. Now, personally I like to think of it as innocently problematic: fundamentally I am sure almost everyone who likes it are nerds who want a good time and a laugh at fantasy-meets-history, not make political points. (40K is a bit different here though!) But still, if you see things you can improve, why not improve them? Edited September 17, 2023 by Dawi not Duardin 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 I always find it odd and intriguing when these topics come up. No one has a problem with the torture, murder, magical homicide, desecration of the dead, extremist beliefs, possesion, etc but the color of an orc or that a lizard humanoid has hints of a certain racial culture are what folks get worked up about?... Your chaos warrior can have a rotting half human torso mounted on a spike attached to trophy rack but it can't be a (insert melanin level here) torso.... Hell, anytime a new critter drops its instantly referred to as a "murder" this or a "murder" that. We play this game about all these henious acts but we have to try and be overly pc about this? I just find it odd. I guess the only thing not cool to roll to kill for are feelings. This is not an attack at any one person, It's just my thoughts on a subject. 🙂 14 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Just now, Vasshpit said: We play this game about all these henious acts but we have to try and be overly pc about this? I just find it odd. I agree with this (see my rants about Fimir - a background I don't necessarily find great and that could be changed for all I care but I'm not sure why rape can't be an integral part of horrible monsters when other horrible aspects of war/humanity are fair game in WH... if we get more "woke" we'll very soon cancel xenomorphs for the rapey underrtones) and find it detrimental to shy away from horrible stuff in fictional stuff. Game of Thrones handled "grown-up" themes too and it worked. Let's just be glad that blackorcs weren't actually black. While those WHFB parallels are a bit clumsy and perhaps in bad taste to contemporary sensibilities (though sometimes over-sensibilites IMO), back then these things were not and they should be judged accordingly - as perhaps misguided jokes or tasteless inspiration instead of hurtful slander or racism. It's good if they infuse old concepts with new ideas and change them for the better now but I kind of hope, as weird as it might sound, that some of the horrible realities of war won't get censored out of WH/AOS fiction, whether it's slavery or rape, even if I'm absolutely opposed to both concepts. But you know, it's not real. I'm sure many Chaos players are lovely, well-adjusted people that bear no ill will towards their peers - not me though! 😎 10 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 (edited) Maybe its just me but i love to see minis with influences of european themes and fairy tales. Im not offended, i love it. Give me more knights, crusades, trolls, gnomes, fairies, dragons (still waiting for druids an the like). If it wasnt for some of these miniatures i wouldnt have looked for more information about other cultures and actually learned about them. I dont care at all what colour GW decides to paint their studio armies. We can change that to our own liking right? (Sorry i try to be a more positive person) Edited September 17, 2023 by Gitzdee 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalassic Monstrosity Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 I hate to be the wet blanket here, but can we move this conversation to another thread? This is a conversation which should - and must - be discussed, but by its very nature it's something that won't find a definitive consensus. There is so much minutiae about the forty years of GW IP, you know? And while I'm not saying these topics should be swept under the rug, this thread is for two things: rumors and baiting Whitefang reacts. 10 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Vasshpit said: I always find it odd and intriguing when these topics come up. No one has a problem with the torture, murder, magical homicide, desecration of the dead, extremist beliefs, possesion, etc but the color of an orc or that a lizard humanoid has hints of a certain racial culture are what folks get worked up about?... Your chaos warrior can have a rotting half human torso mounted on a spike attached to trophy rack but it can't be a (insert melanin level here) torso.... Hell, anytime a new critter drops its instantly referred to as a "murder" this or a "murder" that. We play this game about all these henious acts but we have to try and be overly pc about this? I just find it odd. I guess the only thing not cool to roll to kill for are feelings. This is not an attack at any one person, It's just my thoughts on a subject. 🙂 I 100% agree. All this pc stuff about fantasy backgrounds be it either LoTR, Warhammer or other fantasy settings seems most of time a bit hypocritical combined with a lot of overthinking and to much free time🤗. That said, can we except some more AoS stuff tonight? Edited September 17, 2023 by Tonhel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Tonhel said: I 100% agree. All this pc stuff about fantasy backgrounds be it either LoTR, Warhammer or other fantasy settings seems most of time a bit hypocritical combined with a lot of overthinking and to much free time🤗. That said, can we except some more AoS stuff tonight? I was hoping for Warcry, but seems it is 40k time 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 +++MOD HAT ON+++ Lets please move the political side of fantasy toy game to another thread please. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 So could we predict any more about what 12+ factions get updated with these books? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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