Gaball Slaaneshi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Glutos said: s malal no longer a thing in warhammer? He fits chaos against chaos Is no longer canon, and Necoho/Zuvassin are/is (I have a small theory that say Necoho/Zuvassin are the same guy) his successor as Anti-Chaos God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said: Is no longer canon, and Necoho/Zuvassin are/is (I have a small theory that say Necoho/Zuvassin are the same guy) his successor as Anti-Chaos God. Not really, they were also side notes in the old lore (mostly known to be mentionned in the campaign book There Is Something Rotten In Kislev, but even so they're not really central to the main intrigue) and don't appear in the current canon. Edited March 27 by Sarouan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Has anybody heard anything about the Vanguard boxes? Do we know if they are just going to be rebranded or have the contents changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaball Slaaneshi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Sarouan said: Not really, they were also side notes in the old lore and don't appear in the current canon. Wrong, Zuvassin is..mentioned at Shadespire novel Spoiler He is the god that seems to be the origins of the shadeglass, and of the city. Zuvass his herald, works to awake Zuvassin. And Necoho is mentionned him and his atheist book in another book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just now, Gaball Slaaneshi said: Wrong, Zuvassin is..mentioned at Shadespire novel Hide contents He is the god that seems to be the origins of the shadeglass, and of the city. Zuvass his herald, works to awake Zuvassin. And Necoho is mentionned him and his atheist book in another book. They're just winks and side notes, not even central to the intrigue as well. Novelists write what they want, doesn't mean everything is actually meant to be representative of the official AoS lore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Malal was only really in 1st edition WHFB as far as I can tell and Malice hasn't been brought up since 3rd edition 40k I think at this point Malal and Malice have spent more time not being canon than being canon 😄 They definitely made an impression on people though as they're still brought up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Gaz Taylor said: Has anybody heard anything about the Vanguard boxes? Do we know if they are just going to be rebranded or have the contents changed? I think the only thing we have to go on so far is that promo they put out with the grid of faction models currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, TrawlingCleaner said: They definitely made an impression on people though as they're still brought up today! Well, that's because Chaos is otherwise pictured as the Ultimate Antagonist as far as Warhammer universes are concerned. Having some Chaos power solely focused on destroying itself is really nailing the true nature of Chaos (it's Chaos, it defies logic and reason, even if it's against its own interest), that's why they're marking people. And the campaign There Is Something Rotten In Kislev was legendary on that matter : taking what you usually fight as soulless antagonists (greenskins, necromancers, demonists, mutants) and making things a lot more grey while you expect them to be black. A vibe very Warhammer-like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaball Slaaneshi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just now, Sarouan said: They're just winks and side notes, not even central to the intrigue as well. Novelists write what they want, doesn't mean everything is actually meant to be representative of the official AoS lore. You have right, but Zuvassin is central to the Shadespire novel. Yes, the Novelists do and write what they want, but until Games say the opposite, it's canon in my opinion. And for the time, GHR place and the Aetheric Dominions seems to be in tune. Khorne doesn't hate his existence itself, he is angry and want blood from anyone. But he doesn't hate Chaos. Tzeentch have always a plan behind every mutantation, where Morghur mutate every he touch without form or idea. Hashut is also in tune of Aetherics Dominions. Neither Khorne or Tzeentch can his place. Yes, Games can change all everyday. Zuvassin will probably not receive an army or a new god will take his place (Archaon is becoming a Chaos god Anti-Chaoc ? Ironic) but we can hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EonChao Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said: Has anybody heard anything about the Vanguard boxes? Do we know if they are just going to be rebranded or have the contents changed? I believe that like 40k they're getting rules for Spearhead at the launch of the new edition, but being replaced as new books come out: As well as updates to Matched Play and Path to Glory, the new edition of Warhammer Age of SIgmar is accompanied by Spearhead, a fresh game mode that plays in an hour or less using the contents of each faction’s Spearhead and Vanguard boxes. I can't remember where they said that each faction would get a Spearpoint box but I'm sure they have (and it makes sense from a branding point of view). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Luperci said: We could always get a teaser and then once 4th starts we get a sneak peak series for chaos dwarfs like we had for CoS But I don't expect chorfs until at least 2025 or 2026, that's why I said it is too soon, plus it would mess around with the hype for the new edition, which is the focus now. Edited March 27 by Ejecutor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 19 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said: Has anybody heard anything about the Vanguard boxes? Do we know if they are just going to be rebranded or have the contents changed? A curious note about this. The CoS Spearhead instructions say Vanguard instead 😅 So they would probably just change the outside box of the current ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said: You have right, but Zuvassin is central to the Shadespire novel. Yes, the Novelists do and write what they want, but until Games say the opposite, it's canon in my opinion. And for the time, GHR place and the Aetheric Dominions seems to be in tune. Khorne doesn't hate his existence itself, he is angry and want blood from anyone. But he doesn't hate Chaos. Tzeentch have always a plan behind every mutantation, where Morghur mutate every he touch without form or idea. Hashut is also in tune of Aetherics Dominions. Neither Khorne or Tzeentch can his place. Yes, Games can change all everyday. Zuvassin will probably not receive an army or a new god will take his place (Archaon is becoming a Chaos god Anti-Chaoc ? Ironic) but we can hope. As a player, nothing stops you to build a Daemon of Ruin army in HH with the Ravenous Dissolution and calls it a Malal army. Just like no one stops me from building an Imperialis Militia made of abhuman catgirls (yes, it really exists in miniatures and yes it comes from an old "joke" in the 40k lore). That's why it's fun to take bitz of old lore and make it a reality in your own army background. But honestly, I don't think a few mentions in a shadespire novel is enough to make GW put back these old Chaos powers in future battletomes. Khorne is the personnification of anger (that leads to violence and war, but it's mostly that powerful emotion that is his core). Anger is by nature self-destructive : once all of your initial targets are down and there is only you left, and you still have that anger burning inside...where do yo think it will be aimed at next ? The only thing that is left ; yourself. The question of Khorne was never what he's hating or angry at : he is hate and anger personnified. It doesn't have to have a target. That's why he doesn't care where the blood spilled comes from, as long as it keeps flowing... To be honest, all Chaos Gods are self-destructive in their own nature. For when they win it all, they'll still be unable to stop their own nature and will end up destroying what makes their existence afloat. For such is the nature of Chaos. It never needed Malal, Zuvassin or Necoho : it was always that way. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawhis117 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 34 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said: Malal was only really in 1st edition WHFB as far as I can tell and Malice hasn't been brought up since 3rd edition 40k I think at this point Malal and Malice have spent more time not being canon than being canon 😄 They definitely made an impression on people though as they're still brought up today! There were copyright issues with Malal that forced them to remove him from the setting IIRC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawhis117 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said: If AoS Chaos has the same lore than 40k/Horus Heresy. So we have eight Aetheric Dominions : (source : Ogh Mat-things from Horus Heresy) Putrid Corruption : Nurgle Infernal Tempest : Tzeentch Rapturous Sensation : Slaanesh Heedless Slaughter : Khorne And we have four another dominion between each one of the Four Gods. : Malevolent Artifice : technology and warp so Hashut at AoS/WFB (Vashtor at 40k) Encroaching Ruin : Hunger and Ruin is GHR Formlesss Distorsion : mutations, gavespawn so we have Morghur here. Ravenous Dissolution : The chaos which hate himself : So Necoho and Zuvassin (confirmed at AoS lore) Thank you so much for this. I was able to find the free PDF that this is from, if anyone else wants to read it: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/JXRAKYvl3BrGbGjD.pdf Starts at page 12 Edit; interesting that the GHR has the Dominion that The Dark king would probably have in 40k Edited March 27 by mawhis117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said: If AoS Chaos has the same lore than 40k/Horus Heresy. So we have eight Aetheric Dominions : (source : Ogh Mat-things from Horus Heresy) Putrid Corruption : Nurgle Infernal Tempest : Tzeentch Rapturous Sensation : Slaanesh Heedless Slaughter : Khorne And we have four another dominion between each one of the Four Gods. : Malevolent Artifice : technology and warp so Hashut at AoS/WFB (Vashtor at 40k) Encroaching Ruin : Hunger and Ruin is GHR Formlesss Distorsion : mutations, gavespawn so we have Morghur here. Ravenous Dissolution : The chaos which hate himself : So Necoho and Zuvassin (confirmed at AoS lore) Ravenous Dissolution : The chaos which hate himself : I think the better candidate would either be Archaon coming how he gotten himself a Social Darwin mentality mix a mortal supremacy complex despite the fact that he kind becoming a god with all his power and status of being the Grand Marshall of the Apocalypse. Like the dude haaaaaates gods but then pull this Necoho and Zuvassin is canon but like they been replaced by Be'lakor who much like son is also rant about the gods being terrible (WW3 can attest to that) but choke on that hypocrisy coming how he attempting to once more regain his godhood and supplant that ruinous power 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorPerils Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, GloomkingWortwazi said: That would be a kinda funny reveal, especially given the coverage at the moment. "Big reveal tomorrow for the future of AoS!", everyone thinks it's AoS4 launch stuff.... and it's a random chorf from out of left field. The big reveal turns out to be... a really big hat 1 hour ago, Keleath said: In my opinion, a "war elephant" would be better with the Hedonites. It would stay in their Indo-Persian vibe. I'd never thought of that as an option, but I'd be down for that. Like a massive Fiend, six legs to reflect the sacred number, a dais perched atop for a Lady to command her minions (not enough feminine leaders for Hedonites currently). Perhaps formed as a twisted flesh creation on the basis of a Gargant to bring in the body horror to the concept... 44 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: A curious note about this. The CoS Spearhead instructions say Vanguard instead 😅 So they would probably just change the outside box of the current ones. I think they mentioned that the game mode could be played with all the current Spearheads and Vanguards, so the design decision probably came before the rebranding decision 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Goonhammer has done a tidy article laying out what we know so far, what was said during the livestream etc about 4th edition. Obvioulsy it's all in this thread too but it's probably a bit easier to read through for those that've missed all the discussion here https://www.goonhammer.com/age-of-sigmar-new-edition-4th-explained/ 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypt Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, TrawlingCleaner said: Vashttor and Hashut seem to fill pretty similar roles I think: Artifice, Industry, pushing the boundaries of science etc. On a personal level, I'd like more of a separation of 40k and AoS daemons as it gives both more identity 😄 Having said that, could Bel'akor step up? Archaon is the Big 4 (potentially soon 5) material vessel and have thrown Bel'akor aside in favour of him. He's powerful seemingly off his own back. Or would Bel'akor be a more interesting character not being a god and being his own thing? Belakor was made a demon prince by the powers of the big 4 they own his soul and he failed them hes punished for eternity which is why he takes his anger out on each ever chosen making sure they all fail aka archaon.( difference with archaon is he didnt sell off his soul) I really hope the horned rat does not acctually ascended to actual god hood it just wouldnt make sense the big 4 allowing another rival to appear and is a massive change to the lore to come out of nowhere. The skaven rat is better suited to be a 2nd rate chaos god scheming and plotting to maybe claw their way up to that big 4 lvl imo. But thats just my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 9 minutes ago, Crypt said: Belakor was made a demon prince by the powers of the big 4 they own his soul and he failed them hes punished for eternity which is why he takes his anger out on each ever chosen making sure they all fail aka archaon.( difference with archaon is he didnt sell off his soul) I really hope the horned rat does not acctually ascended to actual god hood it just wouldnt make sense the big 4 allowing another rival to appear and is a massive change to the lore to come out of nowhere. The skaven rat is better suited to be a 2nd rate chaos god scheming and plotting to maybe claw their way up to that big 4 lvl imo. But thats just my 2 cents. Isnt GHR ascending a foregone conclusion? In the Adepticon article they confirmed it saying he has now joined the other 4 in the pantheon due to a deal with Archaon. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawhis117 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EonChao Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 28 minutes ago, Crypt said: Belakor was made a demon prince by the powers of the big 4 they own his soul and he failed them hes punished for eternity which is why he takes his anger out on each ever chosen making sure they all fail aka archaon.( difference with archaon is he didnt sell off his soul) I really hope the horned rat does not acctually ascended to actual god hood it just wouldnt make sense the big 4 allowing another rival to appear and is a massive change to the lore to come out of nowhere. The skaven rat is better suited to be a 2nd rate chaos god scheming and plotting to maybe claw their way up to that big 4 lvl imo. But thats just my 2 cents. Nah, that's the kind of mentality that eventually stagnates the setting. GHR is effectively already the 5th Chaos God, having it force it's way to being on the same level of the other four would disrupt the flow of the great game and potentially spiral other story threads off from it now that the status quo of the four has been forever changed. It'll be a net positive narratively for Grand Alliance Chaos with no real change overall. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Anger Entropy Hope Desire Rats 🫤 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 24 minutes ago, mawhis117 said: Fun video. I think the point about GW sending out a cease and desist against the sale of Chaos Dwarves is interesting. I personally believe in the Chaos Dwarf dream at this point. The evidence has really been mounting over the course of the last edition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Double Misfire said: Anger Entropy Hope Desire Rats 🫤 The GHR isn't as easily defined as the other chaos gods but they are much more than just "rats". Selfishness, decay, innovation without regard for consequences are all key skaven traits, they kinda take humanity's worst traits and accelerate them to their extremes Edited March 27 by Luperci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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