AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[KrispyXIV]

9 minutes ago, Feii said:

Blissbarbs and Sentinels are now the same point cost lol

Blissbarbs can and WILL pay for that difference in value though.

I'm way more annoyed that putting a Keeper of Secrets or Daemonettes in a army list is generally an objectively terrible idea at their current points costs - they simply don't aid Depravity enough to justify the markup on them, like a ranged unit that can split fire and generate 2-3 depravity a turn can.

Edited December 21, 2021 by KrispyXIV

[Jaskier]

Those are good drops, but there are way more units than that which needed drops too. 
How on earth did they drop three of our most popular units but ignored Daemonettes and Shalaxi? 

It's pretty obvious the drops aren't actually based on boosting underperforming units in our case, it's just to push that battleforce. Eugh. Like, everyone was already taking Blissbarbs, and many were running Myrmidesh. They helped units that didn't need the help as much as others and were already popular. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaskier

[KrispyXIV]

1 minute ago, Jaskier said:

It's pretty obvious the drops aren't actually based on boosting underperforming units in our case, it's just to push that battleforce. Eugh. Like, everyone was already taking Blissbarbs, and many were running Myrmidesh. They helped units that didn't need the help as much as others and were already popular. 

This is a damned unflattering look for them, no doubt.  

[Enoby]

10 minutes ago, Feii said:

Blissbarbs and Sentinels are now the same point cost lol

At least we see some updates - still wouldn't take Slaangors for that amount, but it shows they're looking into it at the least

[Jaskier]

Before anyone dooms and glooms, every other book only got a handful of changes too; it seems like the theme of this update was a handful of targeted changes for each army, not an overall balance pass like a GHB. It's a bit of a shame they didn't do more, but ah well. 

I'm not gonna complain about two of our three best Battleline units getting cheaper, and the Symbaresh drop helps a bit. 145 for Myrmidesh is close to hitting the sweet spot of just being generally efficient even considering the summoning tax. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaskier

[zombiepiratexxx]

All around this looks like an incredibly disappointing round of updates, especially considering the hype in its coming. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 minutes ago, Feii said:

Blissbarbs and Sentinels are now the same point cost lol

The direction seems good, GW, but keep going.

[KrispyXIV]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The direction seems good, GW, but keep going.

This is a fair statement.  If we had gotten this sort of adjustment across the board, excepting the few units that are currently good, I'd have been quite happy.

[zombiepiratexxx]

Almost like the fact that the Daemons were the OP part of the old book so they can't be looked out, only the new mortal units can be tweaked lol. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, KrispyXIV said:

This is a fair statement.  If we had gotten this sort of adjustment across the board, excepting the few units that are currently good, I'd have been quite happy.

I really wonder if the rules guys had some kind of experience during play testing where lowering the points of everything caused summoning to spiral out of control or something. They still seem quite hesitant to drop the points of Slaanesh units even a year later.

[MothmanDraws]

Eh ill take it, could have done with more drops on other stuff but get what you can get i suppose. 

[KrispyXIV]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I really wonder if the rules guys had some kind of experience during play testing where lowering the points of everything caused summoning to spiral out of control or something. They still seem quite hesitant to drop the points of Slaanesh units even a year later.

I mean, I'm positive there is some threshold where this occurs/is true.  I just don't imagine it applies to units like KOS or Daemonettes nearly as much as like Blissbarbs...

Maybe we've got a killer Tome Celestial coming in February thats going to give the whole army Delicate Precision or something.  I theoried out the math at one point and determined that even with our current extra hits on 6's, its still not as good as Kruleboys... 

Blegh, I suppose I'm going to try and sort out some lists with the 'new and improved' mortals and see how it feels.

[Jaskier]

Well, if you were running 2x11 Blissbarbs and 1x5 Hellstriders, you've gotten a meagre 20 points extra. If you were running 10 Symbaresh and 2x5 Myrmidesh, you've gotten a whopping 70 points extra to work with. It certainly makes the latter much more viable than before, but I think Blissbarbs + Hellstriders/Myrmidesh is still going to be the ideal combo for me. 

What I'm really curious to try now though are Dragon Ogors. No more Host buffs for them (honestly, meh) but they dropped a whopping 25 points for 3 (as did the Shaggoth.) Some of you may recall I did the math on them and a lot of other units when the 3.0 GHB dropped, and Chaos Warriors were the tankiest unit per-point followed closely by the Dragon Ogors. Well, Chaos Warriors are still number one in blocks of 20 or more (3+ save redundancy, 5++ against mortals) but speaking strictly in terms of points-per-wound the Dragon Ogors have surpassed them. 6 of them for 250 points gives you a 30 wound 4+ save blob that each count as 2 models on objectives. If you compare them to Fiends, the 2" range War-glaives lets that blob of 6 fight capably in two ranks (whereas Fiends mostly have 1" so are usually stuck fighting with only 4 or 3 out of 6) so they wouldn't compare too unfavourably in terms of raw damage, and they are much, much tankier for the points even accounting for the minuses to-hit and to-wound. Still probably not the best use of points, but if you want a grindy unit to plonk on a midfield objective that will get you a couple DP before they die and don't want to fork out 400 for 20 Chaos Warriors (who, thanks to 1" ranges on 32mm bases with 3.0 coherency, will do less damage than the 6 Dragon Ogors in most situations) then they actually seem...reasonable? I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but especially with the big Sorcerer Lord hike I'm really intrigued in trying the Dragon Ogres out. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaskier

[Khendall]

Lol this update sucks

[ibel]

I find it Fine. Okay it could be a littel bit better but ist okay.

I try this:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Vendetta

Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (475)*
- Host Option: General
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Battle Rapture

Lord of Pain (155)*
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation

Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (265)*
- Host Option: General

Battleline
22 x Blissbarb Archers (340)*
- Reinforced x 1

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)*
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 1

a good List i think and with the Point reduze i play with One Myrmidesh more.

Maybe this is the Unit with make the swinging point (in my faivor)

[azdimy]

It s only points to attract players to buy that battleforce box but it doesn t change the power level of the army. My list dropped 10 points and the marauders I was building for a lurid haze list can go back to the pile of potential as they no longer benefit from the redeploy ability. Lol

[Selpharia]

It’s also worth noting that this isn’t a full winter rebalance. Just like the 40k balance slate, this is unlikely to be everything.

[Benkei]

48 minutes ago, Enoby said:

At least we see some updates - still wouldn't take Slaangors for that amount, but it shows they're looking into it at the least

Except they aren't, they just lowered points for the battleforce units too see if it sells more. It's so obvious it hurts

Edited December 21, 2021 by Benkei

[Enoby]

9 minutes ago, Benkei said:

Ecept they aren't, they just lowered points for the battleforce units too see if it sells more. It's so obvious it hurts

Potentially yes, but it's also not as if it's hurting the army either - or forcing you to buy the box. It's better than nothing and the drop on Twinsouls and Painbringers is welcome.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

11 minutes ago, Benkei said:

Except they aren't, they just lowered points for the battleforce units too see if it sells more. It's so obvious it hurts

I highly doubt that. I don't really think the GW rules and marketing divisions work that closely together in the first place, but even if they did, this seems like a really bad way to make the Battleforce box more appealing.

• "How should we make sure people buy the Slaanesh box?"
• "Let's not make their rules stronger or more appealing, but instead make it so that you get fewer points worth of models in the box."

[Enoby]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I highly doubt that. I don't really think the GW rules and marketing divisions work that closely together in the first place, but even if they did, this seems like a really bad way to make the Battleforce box more appealing.

• "How should we make sure people buy the Slaanesh box?"
• "Let's not make their rules stronger or more appealing, but instead make it so that you get fewer points worth of models in the box."

Yeah, I think if they really wanted to push the battleforce box, they'd have just rewritten Slaangors rather than giving them a points decrease. 

[TimeToWaste85]

So I’m not up on 3.0 like at all…how badly does this hit Archaon? I get that he loses exploding 6’s in Slaanesh, can’t teleport in Lurid Haze, etc. 

In things like Tzeentch, how is he affected? Can you no longer use destiny dice on him? If so, that army is dead and buried. 
 

im asking here because he is useable by HoS and the other threads are nowhere near as active 

[KrispyXIV]

5 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

So I’m not up on 3.0 like at all…how badly does this hit Archaon? I get that he loses exploding 6’s in Slaanesh, can’t teleport in Lurid Haze, etc. 

In things like Tzeentch, how is he affected? Can you no longer use destiny dice on him? If so, that army is dead and buried. 
 

im asking here because he is useable by HoS and the other threads are nowhere near as active 

Oh, it is absolutely a far bigger hit to Tzeentch than it is for us.  Archaon went from 'interesting' in Slaanesh to 'definitely probably less good, but maybe still interesting because By My Will has good synergy'.

In Tzeentch, he's just... a big beatstick that doesn't benefit from any of their stuff.  

Way worse for them.

[Feorag]

5 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

So I’m not up on 3.0 like at all…how badly does this hit Archaon? I get that he loses exploding 6’s in Slaanesh, can’t teleport in Lurid Haze, etc. 

In things like Tzeentch, how is he affected? Can you no longer use destiny dice on him? If so, that army is dead and buried. 
 

im asking here because he is useable by HoS and the other threads are nowhere near as active 

He loses exploding hits, rerolls from lop and glutos command ability regen and locus.

In tzeentch no destiny dice, locus, or other command abilities like rerolls from the fate master.

[Jaskier]

I think the deal with Archaon now is that even with all the nerfs, he's probably still one of our best units by virtue of not having that dangerous combination of grossly overpriced and stupidly fragile - and yeah, that command ability sounds pretty nice when you frame our units in that way. I still rate him quite highly, but he's obviously not as good as he was.