AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Lucentia]

There's quite a lot of conditional battleline options, though I don't have a pic handy, I'm afraid, but the review embargo's up, so there are plenty of full reviews on YouTube that'll show the points/battle role page for you.

[Lord Veshnakar]

4 hours ago, Enoby said:

I really do love the new book for its options - not just that it really encourages creativity, but also that it's a fantastic that there isn't a terrible or too good unit in the book. Everything feels like you can experiment with it, and that's brilliant - even the units I've been a bit dissapointed in, it's never been because they're really bad, they're just not quite as creative as the other ones.

It's definitely a book everyone will have to experiment with. I was really impressed with Twinsouls recently - they tanked (and hurt) squigs really well.  

I've heard a handful of people saying that the Blissbarb Archers are too good. Time will tell though I suppose! I'm enjoying the new book!

[zombiepiratexxx]

After an edition of more or less utter gutter trash I'm sure we can have one unit that's good. Blissbarbs are good, I don't think they are OP as they're not the cheapest unit going and to buff them up you do need a heavy character investment to do it. I think it's very early to call anything too good, I mean, they're not Lumineth with a 30" range and not needing Line of Sight! 

[KrispyXIV]

5 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

After an edition of more or less utter gutter trash I'm sure we can have one unit that's good. Blissbarbs are good, I don't think they are OP as they're not the cheapest unit going and to buff them up you do need a heavy character investment to do it. I think it's very early to call anything too good, I mean, they're not Lumineth with a 30" range and not needing Line of Sight! 

I'm fairly certain that Blissbarbs hit way, way harder than Sentinels do for the same cost though?   Even allowing for 5+ mortals on the sentinels?   

I've not seen a graphed comparison for all cases, but its not a "hits just a tad harder" situation, I don't think.  

Blissbarbs are clearly good - I wouldn't be surprised if a list that went all in on pushing them would be problematic. 

[Lucentia]

Blissbarbs are very similar to Idoneth Reavers, who can also be easily buffed to much the same shooting profile (whilst also being much more resistant to shooting, I might add) so I don't think it will be a huge problem, maybe Blissbarbs sneak up 20pts or so, I can't see them as much of a problem unit.

[Tizianolol]

Guys I have a question about Phantasmagoria spell. When rules say: unit is picked to fight" it means when that unit make a pile in move or before that unit pile in? If its before when opponent chose to activate that unit i retreat and he cant pile in right?

[azdimy]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys I have a question about Phantasmagoria spell. When rules say: unit is picked to fight" it means when that unit make a pile in move or before that unit pile in? If its before when opponent chose to activate that unit i retreat and he cant pile in right?

Cant pile in unless he charged. Unit that charge can  pile in even if outside of 3 inches

[DerZauberer]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:14 PM, KrispyXIV said:

So, kindof a QoL issue but something to consider for temptation dice - attacks technically happen in sequence, not all at once.

You and your opponent should be resolving temptation dice well before your opponent has perfect knowledge of whether his unit is going to survive or not (or how well their attack is going, etc.) - after the first failed save (or hit/wound roll) in most cases (or after the second, vs. Blissbarb Seekers for example), when rolls could still go very well or very poorly, leaving the fate of the unit still in question.

I've been discussing this with my immediate playgroup (the 4-6 people normally play), and I think what we're going to do is call things ahead of time - "I'm going to tempt you on your first failed save, are you going to accept or reject?" - and unless they don't want to do that, do it that way.  Otherwise, we'll resolve the 'correct' way - roll each save one at a time in sequence.

But it is very much not to the Hedonites players advantage to offer dice after your opponent has perfect knowledge of the outcome of the results of an entire combat.  

Correct me if im wrong, but the D3 MW are done after all the attacks have been resolved. Save rolls are part of the attack sequence regarding the core rules. Means the information is still the same. Even if you tempt me to get 6 on my save, it still resolves after all saves are made and i know if my unit will survive or not. And as you only offer a maximum of one dice per unit per phase, it should not matter if you tempt me after all my save rolls are done or in between my roles. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by DerZauberer

[Enoby]

I've had another game with the book, again vs trolls, with the following list:

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

  - Army Type: Pretenders

LEADERS

Lord of Pain (135)*

  - General

Lord of Pain (135)*

Lord of Hubris (135)*

Glutos Orscollion (480)**

The Contorted Epitome (190)**

The Masque (140)**

BATTLELINE

Blissbarb Archers (150)*

Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*

Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)**

OTHER

Slickblade Seekers (200)**

CORE BATTALIONS

*Battle Regiment

**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

Overall the game was really fun, and I love how varied we can be with our tactics now. Our Battle Tactics are super easy to get and I achieved every turn, alongside denying theirs. 

One of my favourite "techs" is to use Phantasmagoria for movement - so have your slickblades go into a weak Unit A, which has Unit B nearby, charge into A to attack and then pile into B. The weak Unit A should die, and the activation of Unit B should allow you to retreat, getting an extra 14" move.

When Painbringers actually got into combat with a 5+ ward, they absolutely weathered all attacks, from charging bounders to a Troggboss. 

Twinsouls really held their ground when it came to surviving and fighting back against a herd of buffed squigs. In combination with attack on death from the Lord of Hubris, they helped secure the centre point.

Glutos tanked very well this game, only taking one wound overall (when accounting for his heal) from the Troggboss, 6 Rock guts, and 3 fell water. The -2 to hit really helped here.

As mentioned, Slickblades were great for their movement.

Blissbarbs seemed a bit too strong to me, but it's hard to say. I wouldn't want my entire Army consisting of them, but 2 attacks at 2/3/-1/1 with a LoP nearby nearly killed the mangler outright. 

The Masque was fantastic, and netted me 12dp first turn - she is pretty squishy though, so I may use her more cautiously next time...

The Lord of Pain and Hubris are great support pieces - almost too good in some respects, but they're relatively easy to kill.

Overall, very impressed with the book. 

[KrispyXIV]

13 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

Correct me if im wrong, but the D3 MW are done after all the attacks have been resolved. Save rolls are part of the attack sequence regarding the core rules. Means the information is still the same. Even if you tempt me to get 6 on my save, it still resolves after all saves are made and i know if my unit will survive or not. And as you only offer a maximum of one dice per unit per phase, it should not matter if you tempt me after all my save rolls are done or in between my roles. 

It really does depend on whether or not the 'combined attacks' rules are used, and exactly how optional they are.  The rules say you 'can' use them in all cases - making them sure sound optional (most likely at the discretion of the attacker).  If they are optional, then you can absolutely tempt someone after their first save, well before they know whether they're going to fail so many saves d3 mortals won't make a difference, or if d3 mortals will kill their unit where it otherwise wouldn't.  

[LeonBox]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I've had another game with the book, again vs trolls, with the following list:

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

  - Army Type: Pretenders

LEADERS

Lord of Pain (135)*

  - General

Lord of Pain (135)*

Lord of Hubris (135)*

Glutos Orscollion (480)**

The Contorted Epitome (190)**

The Masque (140)**

BATTLELINE

Blissbarb Archers (150)*

Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*

Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)**

OTHER

Slickblade Seekers (200)**

CORE BATTALIONS

*Battle Regiment

**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

Overall the game was really fun, and I love how varied we can be with our tactics now. Our Battle Tactics are super easy to get and I achieved every turn, alongside denying theirs. 

One of my favourite "techs" is to use Phantasmagoria for movement - so have your slickblades go into a weak Unit A, which has Unit B nearby, charge into A to attack and then pile into B. The weak Unit A should die, and the activation of Unit B should allow you to retreat, getting an extra 14" move.

When Painbringers actually got into combat with a 5+ ward, they absolutely weathered all attacks, from charging bounders to a Troggboss. 

Twinsouls really held their ground when it came to surviving and fighting back against a herd of buffed squigs. In combination with attack on death from the Lord of Hubris, they helped secure the centre point.

Glutos tanked very well this game, only taking one wound overall (when accounting for his heal) from the Troggboss, 6 Rock guts, and 3 fell water. The -2 to hit really helped here.

As mentioned, Slickblades were great for their movement.

Blissbarbs seemed a bit too strong to me, but it's hard to say. I wouldn't want my entire Army consisting of them, but 2 attacks at 2/3/-1/1 with a LoP nearby nearly killed the mangler outright. 

The Masque was fantastic, and netted me 12dp first turn - she is pretty squishy though, so I may use her more cautiously next time...

The Lord of Pain and Hubris are great support pieces - almost too good in some respects, but they're relatively easy to kill.

Overall, very impressed with the book. 

What did you send the Masque into, out of interest? The fact that she doesn't "deepstrike" in the traditional sense (end of movement) but goes down before the first battle round definitely makes her trickier to use effectively. She could be useful for forcing your opponent to take first and potentially giving you the double, but then she just dies. 

[DerZauberer]

1 hour ago, KrispyXIV said:

It really does depend on whether or not the 'combined attacks' rules are used, and exactly how optional they are.  The rules say you 'can' use them in all cases - making them sure sound optional (most likely at the discretion of the attacker).  If they are optional, then you can absolutely tempt someone after their first save, well before they know whether they're going to fail so many saves d3 mortals won't make a difference, or if d3 mortals will kill their unit where it otherwise wouldn't.  

Okay, i get it. There's a difference in information after the first save or the fifth save roll. That makes the rule a bit clunky to use. Thanks for the explanation!

[Enoby]

10 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

What did you send the Masque into, out of interest? The fact that she doesn't "deepstrike" in the traditional sense (end of movement) but goes down before the first battle round definitely makes her trickier to use effectively. She could be useful for forcing your opponent to take first and potentially giving you the double, but then she just dies. 

I put her into the side of 20 squigs (around 5) and the squig hero who buffs them. I used finest hour for a +1 to wound and save, and charged into the hero allocating three attacks to him and six to the squigs. I believe all hit and wounded, but the four wound hero had used finest hour and all out defence and rolled two 6s and a 5 on his save, meaning he survived somehow, despite his four wounds and 6+ save. The squigs, with no save, took 12 wounds for that depravity. 

If she'd have killer the hero then it would have definitely have been worth the trade, but in the future I think I'll either use her to kill screens/shooters, or lone buff heroes - but I'd only want to use her going first. 

[LeonBox]

That's incredibly unlucky with the squig hero! She does seem quite tricky to use properly, and generally only if you can get the first turn. If it's up in the air whether or not you get first turn, then you'd be best not deepstriking her, or using her to force your opponent to take turn one. 

[zombiepiratexxx]

I think having her survive will be lucky at best, but if you can guarantee those 12 DPs turn 1 making the rest of your army more survivable it still might be a worthy trade. Especially as you've still got temptation dice to use and your opponent might end up choosing to eat more mortals rather than accelerate you into the 24 DP buff so early on. Taking out a screen or a key hero early on is going to be incredibly impactful. It wouldn't surprise me already if we don't get a few choice pts increases for certain units and we've not even got the book in our hands yet to all play games with and collect our own data. 

Just having some strong choices in the book already feels so nice. 

[KrispyXIV]

14 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

That's incredibly unlucky with the squig hero! She does seem quite tricky to use properly, and generally only if you can get the first turn. If it's up in the air whether or not you get first turn, then you'd be best not deepstriking her, or using her to force your opponent to take turn one. 

I mean, not rolling any 1s in hit or wound rolls is also lucky 😉 

My math says she averages 12 wounds into something where she denies saves entirely, making it dicey as to whether she can get you to depravity tier 1 on her own... I'm eager to test her though.  

She's definitely a solid, Low effort and investment option for turn 1 euphoric that can be slotted into most lists.   

[Enoby]

10 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

I mean, not rolling any 1s in hit or wound rolls is also lucky 😉 

My math says she averages 12 wounds into something where she denies saves entirely, making it dicey as to whether she can get you to depravity tier 1 on her own... I'm eager to test her though.  

She's definitely a solid, Low effort and investment option for turn 1 euphoric that can be slotted into most lists.   

I should say, she was 2s and 2s, but yes, still lucky on both ends 😛 I was hoping to kill the hero and get a few less depravity on the squigs. Actually, if I recall correctly, I may have done eight damage to the squigs and got four depravity from temptation and that Pretenders spell I can't quite remember the name of (Born of Damnation?). 

[KrispyXIV]

15 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I should say, she was 2s and 2s, but yes, still lucky on both ends 😛 I was hoping to kill the hero and get a few less depravity on the squigs. Actually, if I recall correctly, I may have done eight damage to the squigs and got four depravity from temptation and that Pretenders spell I can't quite remember the name of (Born of Damnation?). 

It is born of damnation

AOS app is updated and I'm building lists, so I've chosen it several times now lol.  

How do folks feel about Reinforced slickblades/blissbarb seekers?   I'd prefer not to Reinforce them personally, but going first seems important for hedonites and I'm having trouble fitting into one drops... 

[Enoby]

6 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

It is born of damnation

AOS app is updated and I'm building lists, so I've chosen it several times now lol.  

How do folks feel about Reinforced slickblades/blissbarb seekers?   I'd prefer not to Reinforce them personally, but going first seems important for hedonites and I'm having trouble fitting into one drops... 

I actually really like the spell; it's no Phantasmagoria, but it's a great way to bump yourself over an edge, or put pressure on your opponent. 

I wouldn't ever consider reinforced Slickblades - they're a pain to maneuver into combat already - but I think Blissbarb Seekers wouldn't be an issue at all, especially if a speedy LOP could join them. 

I do need to try Blissbarb Seekers properly - it's the only unit I don't have from our older line up. 

[LeonBox]

I found Barbseekers super handy in my last match. The 12" range is a bit of an issue if your opponent is able to get a charge off against them, but I used them to tag stuff already in combat to build up the minuses to saves. They're a fantastic debuff unit and great at objective stealing when you need that. 

[Lucentia]

Blissbarb Seekers feel close to an auto-include to me (Though I already ran them quite often in the previous book) the save debuff is beyond valuable.

[Grimrock]

I've been fidgeting with a list that I want to try out with proxies before I drop any money. It's built to help minimize costs for new purchases (I've got a potential line on a few of those old Slaanesh Sybarite boxes and a bunch of existing daemons), but I'm not really sure what to do with battalions for it. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Pretenders

Keeper of Secrets            400
- strength of godhood
- crown of dark secrets
- flaming weapon

Lord of Pain                135
- stubborn as a rhinox

The Masque                    140

Seekers                        140

Seekers                        140

Blissbarbs                    150

Blissbarbs                    150

Daemonettes                    250
- reinforced

Myrmidesh                    290
- reinforced

Slickblade Seekers            200

[Twisted Firaun]

Hey everyone, what’s the best way to build a Keeper f Secrets?

[ibel]

8 hours ago, Grimrock said:

but I'm not really sure what to do with battalions for it. Does anyone have any thoughts?

I dont know. I want to go first or Maybe most of the time because of the Mask, becaouse of EuphoricK and the Buffs (I feel the -1 to Hit buff super importent right at the start of the Game so i want the 12 DP Points in my first round) so.... i dont really know what i think about your list.

5 hours ago, Twisted Firaun said:

Hey everyone, what’s the best way to build a Keeper f Secrets?

puhh i#am not really sure, every form has its good Boni:

Wip: Very nize against hordes with 2 or more Attacks speziall very Mounted or Monster/hero with just a few but very strong attacks.

Knife: Very save Way to make Mortals very good against very tanky Units (Dragons or something like this)

Hand: 3 (6er) Heal save, nize. Useless if the Keeper died in 1 round, but super nize so....mhmm...

S. Aegis: 5+ Ward right away, very good if u get super early much dmg. If u are planning to reach very early the 36+ DP Mark (without any/much summoning mhmm okay) 

U see it depends on your Gaming Group/the Meta and your playstyle and PLan.... so feel free buy 4-5 Keeper   

[Wordy9th]

My hot takes, though this is mainly a keeper post. If people want some insight into how I found a way to make the keeper do absolutely insane damage, here is the list.

 

This won in a knife edge game against karadron. My keeper managed to do around 35 damage to some endrinriggers and blew up a 3+ save ironclad. 

 

How you ask? Well, invaders is the subfaction if you want some ridiculous keeper damage. +1 attack from icon, +1 attack from the command trait, then choose the -1 save command trait during your hero phase and copy it to someone else (in my case the epitome - who also shuts off commands).

 

The ironclad was hit with -1 save from the epitome, +1 wound from the epitome, -1 save from the keeper, and -1 save from the blissbarb seekers for claws that were 2s and 2s with -4 rend and 4 attacks. The sword was 6 with 3 damage from flaming weapon.

 

If this sounds like a Johnny pipe dream of stacking buffs once in a blue moon it really isn’t. All these buffs are very easy to pull off and really makes the keeper the damage dealer you want it to be, as long as you keep another fast hero (hey epitome) close to give the keeper +1 attack and another -1 rend.

 

There are many other hot takes from the game, including the masque who did no combat but sat on an objective forcing the karadron player to divert precious time and effort to killing it. 

 

I will say blissbarbs do seem very strong, and while I do not wish nerfs upon our long suffering beloved faction, lists which take a great deal may be a problem (though they do die to a stiff breeze and more than 22 do clog up the board and make positioning kind of awkward.) Epitome is also so, so good.

 

I will say also that depravity dice was not fun for my opponents, the charm wore off after the first turn in the games I’ve had, turns out people really don’t like being given a constant barrage of devils choices throughout an entire 5 turn game!

 

So far really enjoying the book, the melee choices do seem techy and strangely underwhelming, but time will tell.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Wordy9th