AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Jaskier]

I equate him to the Askurgan Truebloods, his ability is theoretically easiest to use on the charge in conjunction with other units but (likely) low mobility will make it difficult to setup properly a lot of the time. It's an incredible ability *if* you can get it working, and the fact it requires no roll is great. Also, a generic foot hero with a 4+ ward? As long as he's not too pricey, he might be an auto take just to have a strong GC option. 

By the way, I'm surprised we're getting a new cover given our existing one was already super high quality and seemed to fit with the other 3.0 covers. I'm also surprised they chose an artwork with Fiends front and centre 😅 Looks good though, and how good is it to know for sure we've got a new book coming soon! 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

"The Lord of Hubris is a smug, sneering showboat, so cocksure and confident that he wears scant armour, ruthlessly taunts his opponents, and sports eye-catching accessories to make sure he’s always the centre of attention."

Just like me. 

[KrispyXIV]

Know what encourages me?

No "on a 3+", no stupid limited to heroes, no compromises.  

Strong, reliable control.

[Lucentia]

18 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Know what encourages me?

No "on a 3+", no stupid limited to heroes, no compromises.  

Strong, reliable control.

When I first read the rule I was certain it was going to finish with a stipulation of 'If your opponent agrees to the challenge then...' like the Keepers temptation ability.  But I agree, the fact that it's just an ability that works is a good sign, I think.

[KrispyXIV]

Just now, Lucentia said:

When I first read the rule I was certain it was going to finish with a stipulation of 'If your opponent agrees to the challenge then...' like the Keepers temptation ability.  But I agree, the fact that it's just an ability that works is a good sign, I think.

Yep.  More than just this ability, its the hope that - for example - the Keepers Iconic temptation ability, whatever it ends up being, won't be loaded with conditions that make it utterly useless in any practical sense.

Lets a-go!

[Lucentia]

Certainly I'm hopeful for a book that's less of a chore to play, I don't even need it to be especially good, just fun!

Thinking about how the Lord of Hubris ability will actually play out in game (absent of other factors/abilities he might have access to) it's very funny to imagine that in most games he's going to swagger up to whatever the scariest piece on the board is, go, "Oh, no, please, after you," and then get absolutely flattened to protect the rest of the hedonites in combat.

[Selpharia]

He’s an interesting piece, especially in concert with fighting-twice fiendbloods. I’m not sure a 4+ ward will be enough, so you’d really need to use him carefully as his likely price tag is steep for negating one unit once

[MothmanDraws]

Would be cool if he got a parry or -1 to hit to make him an actual evasion tank, otherwise you are amusinglu using his hubris of him biting off too much as a weapon, or if he takes enough punishment he can get up once.

[CeleFAZE]

11 hours ago, Selpharia said:

He’s an interesting piece, especially in concert with fighting-twice fiendbloods. I’m not sure a 4+ ward will be enough, so you’d really need to use him carefully as his likely price tag is steep for negating one unit once

I think he'll combo nicely with locus, if that stays the same. Also if the enrapturing circlet makes the transition to the new book we'll have an amazing bit of tech there.

[Enoby]

I really like the new Hero's ability. I think it looks very strong, but even if it's a bit too tricky to pull off, I think the design space it occupies is exactly the type I think our battletome should. To answer the discussion earlier in the thread, the one thing I would love our book to focus on is tricky tactics - things where both you and your opponent need to think about positioning and activation order very carefully, lest they lose a lot of efficiency. Things like this which can shut down a unit, but the opponent can avoid on their turn it by charging properly (thus making him area denial) are fantastic.

While something like "Choose a Hedonite unit within 6" and it does +1 damage until your next hero phase" would be better, it would be both boring and tactically blunt. I'm hoping for a tactically interesting book, and this ability seems to be pointing in the right direction!

[Ragest]

Man, I just want @Enobyto be happy this time, he deserves it.

[CeleFAZE]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I really like the new Hero's ability. I think it looks very strong, but even if it's a bit too tricky to pull off, I think the design space it occupies is exactly the type I think our battletome should. To answer the discussion earlier in the thread, the one thing I would love our book to focus on is tricky tactics - things where both you and your opponent need to think about positioning and activation order very carefully, lest they lose a lot of efficiency. Things like this which can shut down a unit, but the opponent can avoid on their turn it by charging properly (thus making him area denial) are fantastic.

While something like "Choose a Hedonite unit within 6" and it does +1 damage until your next hero phase" would be better, it would be both boring and tactically blunt. I'm hoping for a tactically interesting book, and this ability seems to be pointing in the right direction!

Someone said it better elsewhere, but they were correct that Slaanesh should have resilience through misdirection of force. We should crumble defensively in an honest fight in most circumstances, but we should have abilities that when played right ensure that we seldom if ever have to fight honestly. Between taunts like the hero shown, defensive abilities like the epitome currently has, no pile-in effects like locus, and anything else that's coming, I think we're in the best place if we are the army that just cannot be fought on the terms you want to fight them.

[AronQ_]

3 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Man, I just want @Enobyto be happy this time, he deserves it.

nah, not just Enoby dude... all of us

[MothmanDraws]

Found the rule for if lord of hubris was old tome

"Target a unit on 3+ within 1" of an enemy unit, if successful roll 3d6 if you exceed targets bravery the opponent can then elect to take the lord of hubris challenge, enemy unit gains first strike but must chose atleast 1 of that units weapon profile to attack this model during this round of combat"

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Ragest said:

Man, I just want @Enobyto be happy this time, he deserves it.

Haha, thank you - but as @AronQ_ said, we all deserve it. I think the Slaanesh subforum has been one of the most active and passionate about the state of the tome, and there's a lot of buzz elsewhere on social media too. I've got a lot of hope for this battletome - and I'm hoping that's not misplaced! 

1 hour ago, CeleFAZE said:

Someone said it better elsewhere, but they were correct that Slaanesh should have resilience through misdirection of force. We should crumble defensively in an honest fight in most circumstances, but we should have abilities that when played right ensure that we seldom if ever have to fight honestly. Between taunts like the hero shown, defensive abilities like the epitome currently has, no pile-in effects like locus, and anything else that's coming, I think we're in the best place if we are the army that just cannot be fought on the terms you want to fight them.

I totally agree with this. I think the Locus of Diversion (both instances) were the right idea, but the first incarnation was too "Tonker Toys" easy, and the second often felt like it rarely mattered. I hope they look into Locus of Diversion again, or a similar rule, that allows us to play in this flighty style. 

My biggest fear is we end up like the first tome all over again, and it just turns into "do tonnes of damage quickly". This rule makes me feel a lot more comfortable. 

[Carnith]

I love this new ability. We need more things that just occur instead of playing minigames within minigames that get us a small prize. Take Dark Delusions.

2d6 cast, casting value 4. Enemy doesn't unbind. Then target selection. Resolve effect. This is what most spells get to do. But DD adds... Roll bravery on 2d6. Against something like ungor? Sure. I think I'll get to beat bravery 5. But like... do we really want +1 to hit against ungor? Nah, I want it against larger targets. But those braveries tend to be higher. So now my spell that resolved gets an extra attempt to just fizzle anyways. 

You look at BoC spells. It;s +1 dmg, take d3 for no commands. I think they have a no pile in spell. These are spells very much worth casting and add a lot to the army. 

I want some more consistent effects or if they are going to force us to have any "random" result that we have ways to influence this dice. 

[Wordy9th]

1” is tough to pull off if it’s the opponents turn - if he’s cheap, say 90 points, I can see a use for him. As it stands a unit of the unmade or any cheap screen performs this role far more reliably.

[zombiepiratexxx]

My worry is that if he's not insanely cheap, or doesn't have any other defensive tech bar that 4+ ward, he's going to be so easily killed off that he's not going to matter. Yes, he may buy a unit a turn of combat but, at the moment, most Slaanesh stuff hits like a wet noodle anyway so I'm not sure if it would make a big difference. Now, if we get some revised rend, or abilities to add to the rend of a unit then we're all good. I don't want to fully judge this guy without seeing the rest of the Warscroll and also seeing if there's other synergies in the new tome that we've been lacking sorely in this one. 

[LeonBox]

At present I'd echo what others have said regarding this guy: barring any sort of supporting synergies, he's simply an expensive way of keeping attacks off one unit for one phase of combat (because anything worth distracting will kill him). I guess it remains to be seen if that will make him worth his points. 

[Unit1126PLL]

I just need to see the whole tome. I feel like our army is supposed to be a glass cannon that gets its defense from special rule shenanigans...

Except we're more like a glass noodle and Keepers have fewer special rules and shenanigans than LRL battleline.

Playing against a buddy's LRL this past weekend felt a bit like our army are the hapless mortals, trying to get by, while eldritch horrors with magics and physiologies beyond our understanding assaulted us in every domain... which is sort of a ludonarrative reversal that would be humorous if it wasn't so disappointing.

"my army is the manifestation of emotion and feeds on depravity and despair!"

"Well my guys eat cookies and have a mage that inflicts the despair on YOU!"

"WELL, my army is fast enough that they even outpace elves!"

"I get to attack with 2 units for every 1 of yours because I am fast."

"Well, my army is immaterial and difficult to connect with, sometimes flickering in and out of the realms to render mortal blades helpless!"

"I get -1 to hit because I am shiny"

"Well, my Keepers of Secrets are literally immortal, living immersed in magic"

"I can auto-cast on a 9 because my elves think hard"

...

 

At least we still have Dark Temptations. That's unique, right?

Edited March 6, 2023 by Unit1126PLL

[MothmanDraws]

3 hours ago, Unit1126PLL said:

 

"Well, my Keepers of Secrets are literally immortal, living immersed in magic"

"I can auto-cast on a 9 because my elves think hard"

 

Worse than that "synessa, child of a chaos god an entity far stronger than any individual god in mortal realm, fuelled by souls of untold consumed elves, Born into the world with a mastery of magic as an avatar of the god incarnate"

-knows a bunch of basic mortal wound spells that half dont work, and can throw some ok spells slightly further away but only 1 spell a turn she gets tired easily, no bonus to cast, in fact in same army some fat dude in a mobility scooter focused mostly on eating is more reliable. Also you are now fighting this flying elf in pyjamas and a silly hat can just stop your god child from casting their 1 spell and fire one back that you are not allowed to attempt to stop

 

[Twisted Firaun]

Hey everyone, out of curiosity do we have any beasts of chaos players in this thread? If so how are Slaangors doing in your games? I'm planning on running three of them in a list and am curious.

[bonesaww666]

The new Herp is going to be great with a unit of slaangors, shut down your opponents ability to reach out and touch them, slap them twice, just pick a target that really matters.

 

 

[MothmanDraws]

Tinfoil theory, syllesske gimick has been the fighting twice thing and twinsouls are usually their thematic unit. What if twinsouls now swap to being a unit with 2 different combat attacks but one has to be used at start and one at end of combat, would pair nice with this guy to keep aggro so the twinsouls can complete their dances.

[Unit1126PLL]

What do you guys think the intent is with the Syllesskan Host?

They don't have any real allegiance abilities, but they got FAQ'd in the latest FAQ and notably is the only Host that gives it's keyword to Coalition Allies (retaining the "All Units" wording rather than the new "All Hedonite Units" wording).

Here is the precise wording:

"All units in your army gain the SYLL’ESSKAN keyword and benefit from the following Battle Traits as well as the allegiance abilities they have for being a Hedonites of Slaanesh army."

With the middle clause removed, it reads:

"All units in your army ... benefit from ... the allegiance abilities they have for being a Hedonites of Slaanesh army."

Does this mean Coalition and allied units get the default HoS benefits (like Euphoric Killers and Locus of Diversion)?

 

Extending the default allegiance abilities to Coalition Allies seems like an even trade for having no enhancements (effectively saying: "your enhancement is that everyone in your army gets the allegiance battle trait").

Edited March 7, 2023 by Unit1126PLL