AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[swarmofseals]

Here's my first draft of a fat man invaders build:

Glutos

The Masque

Contorted Epitome (glory hog, rod of misrule)

2x11 Blissbarb Archers

2x5 Slickblade Seekers

2x8 Iron Golems

1x5 Plague Censers

1x5 Chaos Warriors

2x1 Chaos Spawn

Geminids + Cogs

[Drazhoath]

One short question:

Do I roll against the unmodified bravery when I cast Dark Delusions or modified (Banners, +1 bravery per 10 models and so on)?

[herohammer]

17 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Who were your priority ambush picks, and who did you have ambush if you only got 1 of the d3 units? 

I think the list is cavalcade not speed knights. He isn’t ambushing he is tagging combat from 6 inches.

Edit-NVM he is lurid haze that is what you meant my bad.

Edited February 21, 2021 by herohammer

[LeonBox]

1 hour ago, Drazhoath said:

One short question:

Do I roll against the unmodified bravery when I cast Dark Delusions or modified (Banners, +1 bravery per 10 models and so on)?

The spell description says "bravery characteristic" so I think it goes against the modified version, since modifiers generally say "add/subtract x from the [trait] characteristic..." 

37 minutes ago, herohammer said:

I think the list is cavalcade not speed knights. He isn’t ambushing he is tagging combat from 6 inches.

Edit-NVM he is lurid haze that is what you meant my bad.

Yeah that's what I meant. Ambushing with 3 is a whole different kettle of fish to ambushing with 1. 

[umpac]

47 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

2 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

One short question:

Do I roll against the unmodified bravery when I cast Dark Delusions or modified (Banners, +1 bravery per 10 models and so on)?

The spell description says "bravery characteristic" so I think it goes against the modified version, since modifiers generally say "add/subtract x from the [trait] characteristic..." 

Yup, banners increases the characteristic so they apply here, same with the Phantasmagoria spell. Spells that ignore those have the wording "unmodified" in them (like the special ammo from Mortek Crawlers). +1 bravery per 10 models doesn't apply because you only get that bonus in the battleshock phase when taking shock tests.

[BaronBanana]

A Couple Questions

If running a Godseeker cav army, would Seeker Chariots or Hellstriders with Claw Spears make the better battleline? 

Are Bladebringers on Chariots worth it or should I bring a KoS? 

EDIT :: If able, is the Exalted Speed Knights battalion worth its points?

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by BaronBanana

[herohammer]

I ran seeker chariots as battleline in the last book for mortal wounds so I suppose if it were up to me I would base the question of seeker chariots vs hellstriders on whether or not you have a bunch of other mortal wound sources in your list or not.

I have never used a chariot herald. KoS are still very good even though the can’t target themselves any more with the CA.

I think exalted speed knights looks pretty good but it is pretty one dimensional as far as how you build your army since it takes up such a big chunk of non battleline points. I think I may prefer seeker cavalcade myself since it has a similar unit selection but can include your battleline and imho has a more usefully ability since 14 inch move units don’t need extra moves as much as a way to use their movement to do something other than run faster than sonic the hedgehog

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, BaronBanana said:

A Couple Questions

If running a Godseeker cav army, would Seeker Chariots or Hellstriders with Claw Spears make the better battleline? 

Are Bladebringers on Chariots worth it or should I bring a KoS? 

EDIT :: If able, is the Exalted Speed Knights battalion worth its points?

 

I think seeker chariots may edge out now, especially at the price of Hellstriders.

And as herohammer said, the cavalcade is likely better (though not for chariots) overall. 

Just converted my first two units

[Fyrenn]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I think seeker chariots may edge out now, especially at the price of Hellstriders.

And as herohammer said, the cavalcade is likely better (though not for chariots) overall. 

Just converted my first two units

 

Wow, that's great - just saw your painting blog.  Question, if you don't mind - where did you get the head?  Is that a 3D print you designed yourself?! 

[Golub87]

So the game is over. We played 2000 pts Total Conquest and the opponent surrendered when I won the priority in the 4th turn.

Lists in spoiler

Spoiler

Lurid Haze
Glutos (Dark Delusions)
Shardspeaker (General, +1w Artifact)
6 Fiends
11 Blissbarb Archers x2
20 Marauders
5 Slickblade Seekers x2
5 Seekers
Geminids

vs

Hammerhal
General on Griffon
Battlemage (Fire)
6 Demigryph Knights
3 Demigryph Knighst x4
Celestial Huricanum
Hammerhalian Lancers Battalion
Chronomantic Cogs

Game flow
 

Spoiler

He deployed his Huricanum and Mage on my far left, General and big Demigryph unit slightly to my right and the rest of Demigryphs evenly across the board.
I placed Glutos, Fiends and Shardspeaker in the center, and one unit of blissbarbs and slickblades on each flank. Seekers were slightly to the left - the idea was to catapult them towards his mage. Marauders were in the reserve (Lurid Haze).

Since he severely outdropped me he took the first turn. Apparently I made a miscalculation in deploying my units on the right and he had an opportunity for T1 charge there with the aid of cogs. He got into melee with general and  two units of 3 knights against my slickblades and archers on the far right and wiped them in a turn, taking no damage in the process and taking my rightmost objective. On the left he pushed Huricanum forward with a unit of knights, but I was better deployed there  and his charges failed. Huricanum shot at the seekers, killing 3. He kept the big unit of knights behind the general as a reserve, covering his rightmost objectives and a small unit in the center.

My T1 - Glutos hit his general with  -1 hit Geminid and his knights with -1 attack one. Speaker failed to cast her spell and her debuff ability on the general. Glutos failed to cast Dark Delusions. I moved them along with fiends to the right against his general and knights. I pushed marauders against his leftmost objective that was defended only by a mage. Seekers ran and took his center left objective from 3 knights that had only one model touching it. Blissbarbs on the left inflicted 5 wounds vs Huricanum in shooting and Slickblades charged the knights. In combat, Slickblades killed all the knights and took some damage from the Huricanum, Marauders killed the mage and on the right Fiends got a charge against General and knights, but Glutos failed (I forgot that he has a charge RR). His General and Knights failed to do anything vs fiends (General was -3 hit, -1 wound, knights were -1 attack, -2 hit, -1 wound). Fiends killed one unit of knights easily but did only a few wounds to 2+ rr1s save on a general.

I took priority for T2
 He swung Geminids back on me, hitting fiends for -1 to Hit and then moved them away from each other, dispelling them.
I cast another Geminids from Glutos, debuffing general and remaining unit of knights on the right. As a second spell, Glutos cast his WS spell on the unit of 6 approaching knights. Speaker got both her debuff and spell on the general. Glutos got the charge off and Together with Fiends Killed the general. One demigryph was killed too, but the remaining two blocked me from piling in enough fiends to take back my far right objective.
On the center which was looking a bit weak, I summoned 5 Seekers to delay and threaten his objectives.
On my left, Blissbarbs shoot at Huricanum, leaving it on 1 wound and Slickblades finished it. Marauders burned his far left objective and ran towards the next one.

His T2 - He broke off his two knights on the right from the fiends and burnt my far right objective at the end of the turn.
Since he deemed the right flank a lost cause, he started directing big unit of knights towards my seeker held center. He used his remaining unit of 3 knights to charge to the left and finish off my 2 seekers holding his center left objective.

He took priority for T3.
I could not reach any of his units with Geminids so I separated them, dispelling them.
He ran his 2 knights that burnt my objective on the right along my long board edge, threatening my center right objective.
He kept glacially migrating his 6 knights towards the center on his side of the board.
Finally he used his 3 remaining knights on his center left objective to charge my damaged unit of slickblades and killed all but one of them. He swung back, killing 1  knight in the process.

My T3 I split my little deathstar running Glutos forward to keep harassing his big unit. I cast another Geminids at them, as well as  another movement debuff. Glutos also summoned a unit of 10 daemonettes on the opponent's far right objective, burning it at the end of the turn. Fiends and shardspeaker were left behind to deal with the remaining two knights - killing them easily.
I pulled the summoned unit of seekers to my center left objective, in case his two knights facing off the slickblade survive and threaten the archers.
On the left, archers damaged the remaining two knights enough for a single remaining slickblade to finish them off (archers severely underrolled, but slickblade rolled 6s like a boss).
Marauders reached his center left objective and burnt it.

T4 I got the priority and he conceded with only one unit of 6 knights remaining.

So, I have to say, this tome is incredibly exciting and I feel like I am actually playing an army. Not a single unit in the list disappointed (even the humble seekers did their thing and had a role).

Debuffs are very strong and make our units resilient and Fiends almost unkillable in melee. I lost one fiend due to 3 MW from geminid that was swung back at me and 1 wound that somehow got trough from all those attacks from general and knights over the course of several turns.

Glutos is a beast and is worth every point. His spell is game changing and his debuff aura is oh so good. I forgot that he has a RR to charges and I forgot to activate his 5++. That said the opponent never targeted him, citing that he is too defensive and that he will try to focus on other units.

Shardspeaker is also a nice little support caster.

Slickblades are fantastic! They are deceptively tough and killy.

Regular Seekers are scary fast, 14" move + 2d6 run (rr if within 12" of general) + run and charge mean that they can pretty much get anywhere T1. They are a nuisance for the opponent who has to choose between dealing with them or focusing on more dangerous things in front.

Speaking of nuisance for the opponent, Marauders are awesome now! Not nearly as killy as they were before, now they show up and wreck things, if the opponent lets them. Of course, it is still 20 wounds so any resources directed towards them are not spent on dealing with other things. It is weird, the only change was that they lost Euphoric Killers and that actually made them better.

I guess because you do not sink 320 into 40 models that can make some dmg but that will get priority from the enemy to be killed and then they just melt due to low bravery. They are actually far more useful now, given that they are still as mobile as ever, easy to slip in the backlines with Lurid Haze and yet it is hard for the enemy to justify targeting them as they are just not as dangerous as the other stuff.

Without keepers, army is also not nearly as CP hungry as it used to be. I spent 1 CP total to RR charge for Fiends.

Aside from being very excited over the new book, I am also very scared to go against a ranged army. Soulscream Bridge Irondrakes and KO seem like very tough opponents. Those kinds of matchups will be the hardest methinks.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Golub87

[BaronBanana]

6 hours ago, herohammer said:

I ran seeker chariots as battleline in the last book for mortal wounds so I suppose if it were up to me I would base the question of seeker chariots vs hellstriders on whether or not you have a bunch of other mortal wound sources in your list or not.

I have never used a chariot herald. KoS are still very good even though the can’t target themselves any more with the CA.

I think exalted speed knights looks pretty good but it is pretty one dimensional as far as how you build your army since it takes up such a big chunk of non battleline points. I think I may prefer seeker cavalcade myself since it has a similar unit selection but can include your battleline and imho has a more usefully ability since 14 inch move units don’t need extra moves as much as a way to use their movement to do something other than run faster than sonic the hedgehog

Thanks for the input, what would you think of something like this as a Godseeker List?

Keeper of Secrets (General)

-Cameo of the Dark Prince

-Speed-chaser

Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot

3x1 Seeker Chariots

2x5 Blissbarb Seekers

2x5 Slickblade Seekers

Chronomantic Cogs

Soulsnare Shackles

Fane of Slaanesh

Seeker Calvalcade

 

So with Seeker Cavalcade, does the Bladebringer count towards "Seeker Chariots"?

Edited February 21, 2021 by BaronBanana

[Nubl0]

Anyone else’s Azyr app still not updated? Wanna read the tome alreadddyyy.

[Third]

3 hours ago, Nubl0 said:

Anyone else’s Azyr app still not updated? Wanna read the tome alreadddyyy.

I bought the tome in app yesterday, still not updated though 😁

[Brother Mayhem]

Hey all! I've got my book, and itching to play a game. I've got an opportunity to play against a good friend of mine in TTS on Tuesday next week, so thought I'd bring out the Slaanesh. He is going to be playing Nagash / Kavalos Deathponies (15x5x5) (I'm guessing!).

Now, I have no idea what I am doing, and he is going to bring a tough list. Good combo! So, I've done a little bit of research with the reviews that are out there, and from some of my own observations, and put together this list:

Keeper of Secrets - Shining Aegis, Progeny of Damnation, Strongest Alone, Hunter of Godbeasts, Pendant of Slaanesh

Keeper of Secrets - Sinistrous Hand (For healing!), Paths of the Dark Prince

11x Blissbarb Archers

15x Chaos Warriors

5x Chaos Warriors 

5x Blissbarb Seekers

5x Blissbarb Seekers

6x Fiends

Command Point

1970

So my first choice was Invaders, however, from seeing that I cannot use command abilities and command points if each keeper is within 12" of one another, it defeats the point of the list where I'm trying to make the keepers activate twice. It's a good chunk of my points, and although I feel if I get away from dual Keepers and into a more varied hero slot, I'll do Invaders. However, Pretenders gives the opportunity of a buffed up Keeper that can cause real hurt against a monster (Maybe.... Nagash?), and a secondary one is also good. Not too sure about the choices of spells, command abilities etc, but the mix I put together I feel gave the best options for me. As with anything with AoS, I feel suvivability is better than dmg, especially when the basic keeper hits like a truck anyway...!

One thing I noticed when I tried to put a load of Daemonettes in my force, is that they've shot up in price. Battleline seems to be an issue in this army, mainly due to cost. I feel that the army lacks the armoured core that enemies can bounce off of, and Daemonettes just fold as soon as they're touched. So, as I needed battleline, and didn't want to pay hero tax for the Lord of Pain, Chaos Warriors were my answer. One unit to contest objective, one to hold one of my objectives. Hand Weapons and Shield, tough as nuts... I feel these guys will do ok. Maybe an opportunity to put a Lord and Warshrine in, but at that point I might as well play StD....!

Blissbarb Archers / Seekers seem fast, shooty and a good foil against a slow army like Nagash and the Kavalos Deathriders (I guess there isn't as much special Ossiarch point generation with such a low unit / model cost force?) . Nagash struggles against shooting I believe? I've heard good things about the Seekers, so want to give them a shot. 

Finally, the Fiends seem great on paper, and I feel confident getting where they need to, hitting anything hard, and causing a good amount of damage. With 24 wounds, and I feel them being a unit that can act independently, I want to give them a shot. 

So that's it. I'll come back after the game for a review of the list, but any critiques would be appriciated!

[umpac]

4 hours ago, BaronBanana said:

So with Seeker Cavalcade, does the Bladebringer count towards "Seeker Chariots"?

No, if the text is in bold its a key word (in Sybarites you have Slaanesh Heroes in bold so anything with those 2 key words fit the battalion), but if its not then its referring to an actual warscroll which in this case is normal Seeker Chariots.

[Nubl0]

Tome finally showed up in app. Good to see the azyr list building has the outdated points though haha. Also having just assembled 10 painbringers I can safely say while the models are lovely and you can get plenty of poses out of them... it’s one of the worst laid out sprues I think I’ve ever had the displeasure of assembling. Looking at the blissbarb kit I can tell it’s going to be just as unfun.

[swarmofseals]

@Brother Mayhem I tried a double keeper list and wasn't a fan. Too CP hungry, and keepers are just less efficient on offense than other stuff.

For example, a keeper activation with hand will do an average of:

3.17 mortals

4.44 rend 2

4.11 rend 1

Meanwhile, 5 slickblades deal an average of:

2.22 mortals

8.89 rend 1

5.56 rend 0

Against a save of 4+ the keeper will do 9.61 unsaved wounds while the slickblades will do an average of 10.93 unsaved wounds. Considering the slickblades are cheaper by 140 points I know which I'd prefer!

[Stonehewer]

24 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

@Brother Mayhem I tried a double keeper list and wasn't a fan. Too CP hungry, and keepers are just less efficient on offense than other stuff.

For example, a keeper activation with hand will do an average of:

3.17 mortals

4.44 rend 2

4.11 rend 1

Meanwhile, 5 slickblades deal an average of:

2.22 mortals

8.89 rend 1

5.56 rend 0

Against a save of 4+ the keeper will do 9.61 unsaved wounds while the slickblades will do an average of 10.93 unsaved wounds. Considering the slickblades are cheaper by 140 points I know which I'd prefer!

For 140 points, you get 2 spells, 2 denies, an artifact, a general trait, an attack twice command ability, a locus, the ability to heal, an additional model to use generic command abilities from, a unit that you can summon reinforcements from, a unit that can potentially generate D3 depravity in any of the 3 hosts, and something that can potentially hop screens if given the ability to fly.

[swarmofseals]

9 minutes ago, Stonehewer said:

For 140 points, you get 2 spells, 2 denies, an artifact, a general trait, an attack twice command ability, a locus, the ability to heal, an additional model to use generic command abilities from, a unit that you can summon reinforcements from, a unit that can potentially generate D3 depravity in any of the 3 hosts, and something that can potentially hop screens if given the ability to fly.

I think you misunderstand my point -- the question isn't whether  slickblades are better than a keeper, it's whether 2 keepers is better than 1 keeper and slickblades.

In theory the point of 2 keepers is that they can use their command abilities on each-other, but I have found that this is impractical as you usually don't have enough CP to sustain that. 5 slickblades provide just as good a target for the CA as another keeper does, therefore I don't feel much reason to run two keepers.

[CeleFAZE]

I've been doing some thinking, and the general effectiveness of slickblades in addition to the newly viable non-character chariots have given me pause to reassess the viability of the epicurean revelers battalion.

The current list I'm kicking around is:

340 Keeper of Secrets
150 Shardspeaker

[330 30 Daemonettes
330 30 Daemonettes
330 30 Daemonettes

190 Exalted Chariot
130 Hellflayer]

180 Epicurean Revelers

I normally run Godseekers on account of my army background, but due to the large units and lack of acquiescence casters I think this may be my first foray into pretenders.  It also comes out to 3 drops, which while not a reliable way to control first turn, could amount to a decent chance nonetheless. I may drop the shardspeaker in favor of upgrading the hellflayer to another exalted, but I want to test out how well the shardspeaker can operate as a force multiplier before I commit to that. Also only having one hero feels... weird in a Slaanesh list. It may just be force of habit at this point, since with the Fane being a new way to summon if my heroes get assassinated it may not be necessary.

[CeleFAZE]

2 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I've been doing some thinking, and the general effectiveness of slickblades in addition to the newly viable non-character chariots have given me pause to reassess the viability of the epicurean revelers battalion.

The current list I'm kicking around is:

340 Keeper of Secrets
150 Shardspeaker

[330 30 Daemonettes
330 30 Daemonettes
330 30 Daemonettes

190 Exalted Chariot
130 Hellflayer]

180 Epicurean Revelers

I normally run Godseekers on account of my army background, but due to the large units and lack of acquiescence casters I think this may be my first foray into pretenders.  It also comes out to 3 drops, which while not a reliable way to control first turn, could amount to a decent chance nonetheless. I may drop the shardspeaker in favor of upgrading the hellflayer to another exalted, but I want to test out how well the shardspeaker can operate as a force multiplier before I commit to that. Also only having one hero feels... weird in a Slaanesh list. It may just be force of habit at this point, since with the Fane being a new way to summon if my heroes get assassinated it may not be necessary.

Upon considering this further, I think this may be the better list. It still feels weird to be running a single hero in a Slaanesh list, but I suppose this is the future.

Pretenders Host: Faultless Blades (since there's literally no downside to taking it in this context)

400 Glutos

180 Epicurean Revellers
330 30 Daemonettes
330 30 Daemonettes
330 30 Daemonettes
190 Exalted Chariot
190 Exalted Chariot

50 Command Point

This gives me a super resilient general to keep the rerolling ones going for most of the game, and a way to top off my mortal wound generating chariots to keep them going for as long as possible. After crunching the numbers the exalted chariots are far and away the more efficient option, and actually are just about on par with the slickblades offensively, or better depending on how many units the soulscent can hit for extra attacks. I won't get the double pile-in of the keeper, but with the shooting-heavy meta I don't expect that the keeper would stick around for very long anyhow.

[ibel]

Did Anyone really Played against T1 or Maybe T2 ?!

It feal like every Army in this rang is killing us in 70-90% of the Games. With this Knowlege is beatifull for Fun Games. For Tournements i go to a different Army when 15 of 30 People Play KO, Tzeenth, DoK, RLR, or Thinks like this and there ist no better Placen than 15 of 30.

So I Stop ****** speeling sry.

But pls, I Play Against the 20 BloodSister, 20 BloodStalker Morathi Brige Bomb at Thursday. Any Ideas (beside Archaoen) ?!

[JackStreicher]

imo DoK are upper Mid-Tier now. I in general really like what've been done with the book.

I'll try to slam more S2D into a Hedonites army to make it more durable

[ibel]

8 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I'll try to slam more S2D into a Hedonites army to make it more durable

But than u have a big lack in Output (no EvKillers (exploding 6ses) no NoPileIn)

I would be very Happy if the PowerLvl whould be that lvl of the Hedonit Book. But it isn`nt. The PowerCap is more in the Points of the DoK Book. but okay okay, Maybe there is a big Point Change with the next FAQ and Rulechanges with AoS 3.0 than….. but at the Moment for me it`s fun against old T3 to T5 Armys but against my Playgroup (KO, Tzeenth, DOK, Seras) Tournement Oriented it is a mist, so i think i go VarangaurdHeroPlaguetouchedWarband Army.

[CeleFAZE]

23 minutes ago, ibel said:

But than u have a big lack in Output (no EvKillers (exploding 6ses) no NoPileIn)

I would be very Happy if the PowerLvl whould be that lvl of the Hedonit Book. But it isn`nt. The PowerCap is more in the Points of the DoK Book. but okay okay, Maybe there is a big Point Change with the next FAQ and Rulechanges with AoS 3.0 than….. but at the Moment for me it`s fun against old T3 to T5 Armys but against my Playgroup (KO, Tzeenth, DOK, Seras) Tournement Oriented it is a mist, so i think i go VarangaurdHeroPlaguetouchedWarband Army.

You can mix in S2D and daemons/mortals pretty well, though you'll have to consider the roles a lot more carefully than you would before.

For a combined arms approach you could go with chaos warriors as cheap, durable battleline to sit on objectives or charge-block (let's be honest, they weren't going to be killing much even with euphoric killers), and slickblades as mobile offensive hammers with a keeper as a force multiplier and source of locus. Adding in the Masque gives you a cheap source of locus that's largely self-reliant, and surprisingly durable while doing so. A shardspeaker can provide debuffs that don't really care about keywords, and ambushing marauders are still decent in lurid haze, even if they aren't quite as effective as they used to be.

We're not the dominating powerhouse we were at our initial book's release, but I don't think we're nearly at the bottom of the pack as some people fear. We just have to make smart use of all the tools at our disposal in tactically efficient ways, rather than maximizing a way to flood the board with bodies like we used to. I think as more tournament results come out and people puzzle out effective builds we'll seem a fair bit better than at first glance.