Num Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Pejzub said: There is nothing better than a huge mutated rat with three Gatling cannons being controlled by a little skaven-brain happily sitting on its back. Change my mind. While at this topic, what are some other units you wanted to try, which are not considered staple and you see a potential in them, or you are actually actively playing them and having a success? I really want to try a unit of 30 or 40 stormvermins with a Clawlord, and possibly a battalion then to reduce the drop count and get an extra artifact. On paper they look brutal... Also I have 9 stormfiends and a warp-grinder so I think I will definitely try them out some day too. As I say in my battle report, 6 was already overkill though. 9 is going to be more-more-more overkill then! I like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Num said: I really want to try a unit of 30 or 40 stormvermins with a Clawlord, and possibly a battalion then to reduce the drop count and get an extra artifact. On paper they look brutal... Also I have 9 stormfiends and a warp-grinder so I think I will definitely try them out some day too. As I say in my battle report, 6 was already overkill though. 9 is going to be more-more-more overkill then! I like it Stormvermin are OK (good, even) when compared to other elite infantry, but they are just dominated by Plague Monks. I'd be surprised if a build centered around the Verminus battalion wasn't viable, but for the time being it's going to be worse than using Plague Monks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Num said: I really want to try a unit of 30 or 40 stormvermins with a Clawlord, and possibly a battalion then to reduce the drop count and get an extra artifact. On paper they look brutal... Also I have 9 stormfiends and a warp-grinder so I think I will definitely try them out some day too. As I say in my battle report, 6 was already overkill though. 9 is going to be more-more-more overkill then! I like it Well I’ve been playing around a lot with Stormvermins, and with what I’ve seen and well felt was sometimes devastating and any other time rather disappointing. Stormvermins are a great damage-dealing unit, when taken as a 40rat squad, but they’ll struggle, against basically any shooting, magical horde-killing spells and enemy charges. If you just really want to run a unit of stormvermins, I’d always take the maximum size for them. since anything else is basically useless. also, I wouldn’t take the battalion, since it is not worth the points at all. your better of just taking unit of Clanrats, and for reducing your drops, well a lot of the times your opponent will just out-deploy you since their battalions will be most of the time better then that of ours. The upside of bringing Stormvermins, is that most of the people seem to underestimate them, since they basically never really hit the table, or are seen as a good joke. Ps: All in all stormvermins, can definitely be terrifying, and there’s nothing preventing you from taking them. In total I would just try a few things out, and with the slide pointtrop, taking another warpfire thrower, will be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 18 hours ago, Pejzub said: In my personal experience, 6 jezzails is simply not enough. They wont snipe a big (12+ wounds) hero and the small ones are usually easy to hide even with jezzails range, so I would probably increase them to 9, cut one seer. Maybe cut one ratling gun and use the remaining 120 pts for something. If 1 ratling gun gets cut, then the whole point of AW with overlord of destruction combo goes away. Noone is feeling the extreme need to death frenzy the monks these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarn Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Ive been running a unit of 30 Stormvermin on a regular basis and seem to catch the opponent unprepared every time as no one else in the local scene is using them. Casting death frenzy on them is also a great deterrent to opposing characters and behemoths as they will likely go down with the attacks coming back, but the same can be said about plague monks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Darkhan said: If 1 ratling gun gets cut, then the whole point of AW with overlord of destruction combo goes away. Noone is feeling the extreme need to death frenzy the monks these days? If your going to take the Overlord of destruction trait, I’d suggest you to take at least 2of the rattling guns, because if you’re just going to take one, the deranged inventor trait is the better option, which will give you free hand on choosing another unit if your weapon team should fall to an early grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: If your going to take the Overlord of destruction trait, I’d suggest you to take at least 2of the rattling guns, because if you’re just going to take one, the deranged inventor trait is the better option, which will give you free hand on choosing another unit if your weapon team should fall to an early grave. Yeah 3 is the plan. Wrote a post earlier for suggestions of trading out one of the grey seers: Spoiler Hey peeps. Going to a tournament end of August. Would like a couple points regarding a list, worked pretty well last time. But I think there is room for improvement. And tip from more experienced players would be appreciated. List is: Verminlord Warpseer (Suspicious stone) Grey Seer (Skitterleap) Grey Seer (Death Frenzy) Arch-Warlock (General, overseer of destruction) 20x clanrats 20x clanrats 20x clanrats 6x Jezzails 1x ratling gun 1x ratling gun 1x ratling gun 40x plague monks Warp Lightning Spell This is 1940 points, where i could buy a extra command point just to safe a turn 1 battleshock. So the question is, removing the grey seer with death frenzy I can get 200 extra points. I could then fit 40 extra clanrats, and vermintide endless spell..or 20 extra clans, and some other shenanigans. Tips?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterJoshua Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Darkhan said: Yeah 3 is the plan. Wrote a post earlier for suggestions of trading out one of the grey seers: Reveal hidden contents Hey peeps. Going to a tournament end of August. Would like a couple points regarding a list, worked pretty well last time. But I think there is room for improvement. And tip from more experienced players would be appreciated. List is: Verminlord Warpseer (Suspicious stone) Grey Seer (Skitterleap) Grey Seer (Death Frenzy) Arch-Warlock (General, overseer of destruction) 20x clanrats 20x clanrats 20x clanrats 6x Jezzails 1x ratling gun 1x ratling gun 1x ratling gun 40x plague monks Warp Lightning Spell This is 1940 points, where i could buy a extra command point just to safe a turn 1 battleshock. So the question is, removing the grey seer with death frenzy I can get 200 extra points. I could then fit 40 extra clanrats, and vermintide endless spell..or 20 extra clans, and some other shenanigans. Tips?:) It looks like a strong force on paper. If it's working for you I wouldn't change much. There's not much room to change things without it impacting how the list plays. I don' think you need extra rats. More is always better, but you have 100 already. I do think the extra CP may be a waste though with the Warpseer. If you don't use it in your opponents turn 1 there's a good chance you never will. For the points, I'd be tempted to take a 4th ratling gun. It will be spare to begin with, but will allow the lists 'gimmick' (Overseer of Destruction + Warpstone sparks) to work for longer. Even if they avoid incoming damage (unlikely) one will blow itself up in the first couple of shots so it would pay to have a spare, getting more life out of your command trait and allegiance ability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, MisterJoshua said: It looks like a strong force on paper. If it's working for you I wouldn't change much. There's not much room to change things without it impacting how the list plays. I don' think you need extra rats. More is always better, but you have 100 already. I do think the extra CP may be a waste though with the Warpseer. If you don't use it in your opponents turn 1 there's a good chance you never will. For the points, I'd be tempted to take a 4th ratling gun. It will be spare to begin with, but will allow the lists 'gimmick' (Overseer of Destruction + Warpstone sparks) to work for longer. Even if they avoid incoming damage (unlikely) one will blow itself up in the first couple of shots so it would pay to have a spare, getting more life out of your command trait and allegiance ability. Thx! This was my thinking sort of. Either add another ratling gun. or drop the grey seer with death frenzy, add 3 jezzails and a ratling gun. Tough call really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterJoshua Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 30 minutes ago, Darkhan said: Thx! This was my thinking sort of. Either add another ratling gun. or drop the grey seer with death frenzy, add 3 jezzails and a ratling gun. Tough call really. One thing I'd consider - with the ratling guns being 3 separate units they don't really benefit that much from MMMWP, and it would likely kill the one you cast it on. The Jezzails will benefit occasionally, but they re-roll misses anyway when left alone. I'd be tempted to drop the Arch-Warlock for a standard Bombardier/Engineer. He's mostly just providing the Overseer of Destruction bubble and giving out sparks. He can still be your general, but you'd have an extra 60 points to play with which with the 60 spare you already have could get you an extra 20 rats, or a Clawlord, or even another Engineer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, MisterJoshua said: One thing I'd consider - with the ratling guns being 3 separate units they don't really benefit that much from MMMWP, and it would likely kill the one you cast it on. The Jezzails will benefit occasionally, but they re-roll misses anyway when left alone. I'd be tempted to drop the Arch-Warlock for a standard Bombardier/Engineer. He's mostly just providing the Overseer of Destruction bubble and giving out sparks. He can still be your general, but you'd have an extra 60 points to play with which with the 60 spare you already have could get you an extra 20 rats, or a Clawlord, or even another Engineer! I would MMWP the Jezzails, no doubt:) With 9 I can easy suffer the d3 dmg from it. I have been thinking about the bombardier thing, buuut, reason for the Arch Warlock is the 2+ save if in cover..so harsh to beat:) Seems like we are on the same page tho! I will most likely add another ratling! I mostly play against optimal Slaanesh..Tzeentch Changehost, both players are pretty good, and friggin harsh to play against. Every consideration already taken into account😂 Buuut thankfully I will not only be playing against this in the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Remember when I said I wouldn't use Plague Monks? I member. Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- General- Trait: Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyGrey Seer (140)- Lore of Ruin: SkitterleapArch-Warlock (160)- Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeUnits6 x Stormfiends (520)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-staveEndless Spells / TerrainWarp Lightning Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 183 No Warpseer, but..meh. I can still start with a CP for an IP against any T1 shenanigans. Curious to see how it works out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterJoshua Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Gwendar said: Remember when I said I wouldn't use Plague Monks? I member. Hide contents Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- General- Trait: Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyGrey Seer (140)- Lore of Ruin: SkitterleapArch-Warlock (160)- Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeUnits6 x Stormfiends (520)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-staveEndless Spells / TerrainWarp Lightning Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 183 No Warpseer, but..meh. I can still start with a CP for an IP against any T1 shenanigans. Curious to see how it works out. I think that looks great. Fantastic even. I think it’s objectively better than the list I proposed, but I can’t get away from trying to shoehorn a Doomwheel in. It has great shooting, a strong melee killer unit, very strong magic.... it’s not really missing anything. I particularly look forward to your opponents face when out of nowhere you skitterleap your Warlock over to the monks and vigourdust them before they charge in! 😂 For me I’d still go with Deranged Inventor as my command trait, but that’s perhaps just taste. If you’re worried about losing the warpseer it might be worth trying the snoutgrovel robes on the seer to give 2 different battleshock bubbles, but the vigourdust is hard to pass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 @MisterJoshua Yeah, that's the idea. Main difficulty will be setup and first turn as usual. The AW will already need to be Skitterleaped to get off WLV, so that pretty much ties up T1 while everything else moves up. Looking back, I think I will likely take out the Warp-Grinder in favor of getting another Clanrat unit to 40 for 140 battleline bodies total. I'll hate myself for moving that many things, but I'll learn to deal. Anyway, taking out the Grinder lets me move up the Fiends and at least get the Windlaunchers shooting at something with Vigordust + Spark... but, as always I'll likely try both and see what happens. Having the Fiends show up in ratling range even unbuffed could remove some chaff and be a distraction that will hopefully last until next turn to get full usage out of them. People are used to only dealing with ranged\magic when going against my Skaven so playing every card at once will be an interesting time. I didn't think I would need to buy more Skaven, but I guess I'll go ahead and commit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 25 minutes ago, Gwendar said: I didn't think I would need to buy more Skaven, but I guess I'll go ahead and commit. One always need to collect more Skaven. Ask @Skreech Verminking 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laststand Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 A question for everyone. I played a couple of games today and in the second v Khorne I jumped my 6 Jezzails through a gnawhole to get an angle to shoot my opponents skullcrushers. The gnawhole warscroll says that counts as a move but is it a move for the purposes of the Jezzail's rerolling hit bonus? We couldnt find anything to say either way and ended up playing it like stormcast deepstriking (counts as a move but doesnt stop you getting the bonus for not moving). I am pretty sure I have seen something that said this but cant remember where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterJoshua Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) @Gwendar With Deranged Inventor, the fiends would be sort of buffed on their arrival turn with the grinder. Re-rolling misses and sparked for the damage. They also support the AW who can remain up the field. That’s the theory anyway. There is the disadvantage that you can’t cast MMMWP on them, or Vigourdust them in that first turn. If you didn’t take the grinder, would the plan be to dust the fiends, skitterleap forward, cast WLV, gnawhole back and spark the fiends? That’s quite a lot to get in, and may restrict your fiends moving up to stay in range of the AW. Edited July 31, 2019 by MisterJoshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Num said: One always need to collect more Skaven. Ask @Skreech Verminking @Num tells the truth. a true horde of skaven begins at 13’000points, a mighty force will your army be called at 26’000p and a horrifying swarm it will be at 169’000points. Edited August 1, 2019 by Skreech Verminking 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) @Laststand No, teleports like that do not count as normal moves and you still get the re-rolls. See Sisters of the Watch teleporting with Wanderers allegiance and still being able to get double shots... it's in an FAQ somewhere I believe.@MisterJoshua True, but I may also need Master of Magic on the Bell to get another +1 on the Death Frenzy, which is what I was stuck between. Your theory is solid with what I intended them to do (cast WLV from Skitterleaped AW, keep him up there with them rather than teleport back) but I'll have to play around and see if that's more worth it over ensuring a bit more that Death Frenzy goes off on Monks. But yes, that may be initially what I intend to do and it's sparked me to think of what I want more between the Clanrats and Grinder... but in the end this is an objective game, and more bodies tends to win games, especially in my meta were most people are running summoning armies of some variety. I'll just have to see what works, I'm not really 100% sold either way until I play with it. Edited August 1, 2019 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pejzub Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Gwendar said: Remember when I said I wouldn't use Plague Monks? I member. Reveal hidden contents Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- General- Trait: Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyGrey Seer (140)- Lore of Ruin: SkitterleapArch-Warlock (160)- Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeUnits6 x Stormfiends (520)1 x Warp-Grinder (80)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-staveEndless Spells / TerrainWarp Lightning Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 183 No Warpseer, but..meh. I can still start with a CP for an IP against any T1 shenanigans. Curious to see how it works out. This is very similiar to the list I posted a few pages back I plan on running, only thing different is that I decided to put Thanquol in at the cost of WLV, atleast for now, before I get to playtesting. Please let us know how it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampire Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Hello everyone! I've been reading this thread and l've learnt a lot from your conversations and advice. I would like to know if you would be so kind to help me with my 1500 points list. I'd really appreciate it. The core of my army consists of 2 units of 20 Clanrats with Blades + 2 units of 40 Plague Monks (don't know yet whether to go with woe-staves or pairs of foetid blades). That's 800 points, leaving 700 points remaining which I could spend on: Option 1: Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (Skavenbrew and Death Frenzy?) + Plague Priest on Plague Furnace + 6 Jezzails (or 280 points spent elsewhere) Option 2: Grey Seer + Plague Priest on Plague Furnace + Verminlord Corruptor (+ 80 points to spend somewhere else) Option 3: Other combinations of Verminlords/Bells/Furnaces/Seers/Other units --- Thank you so much in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 @Pejzub It's unfortunate that I can't see any reason to run Thanquol anymore now with the range nerf to WLV. I suppose he could still run up and get it off as he is somewhat tanky, but for me he just ends up being a 400 point distraction that I don't see a point behind when I can take many other things for the points that will likely get more done. He just doesn't have room in any of my lists nowadays unfortunately. Not to say he isn't good as I build him 50/50 so he can take on Hordes and Heroes alike... but still.@Vampire Woe-Staves is the general consensus as you're getting more attacks and combining that with Death Frenzy just adds up the damage... plus with that 2" range, you're ensuring everything is getting some attacks in. Between your given options, I like 1 the most as it gives you some decent shooting that will deal with certain threats, like killing heroes used to summon things in. Otherwise, I do like 2. You could spend those 80 points on a Grinder to deepstrike in some Monks or bump up 1 Clanrat unti to 40. You could also take a Furnace, Bell and the Corrupter for 1500 flat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterJoshua Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I really like Thanquol for the lore and the model. Just awesome..... ...but he's so many points! Consider that he costs as much as a Warpseer and Warp Lightning Vortex combined! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampire Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 @GwendarThank you so much! I will definitely go with Woe-Staves. I might be missing something here, but aren't we allowed up to 2 behemoths under 2000 points? I believe the Bell, Furnace and Verminlords are all behemoths and I could only take two of them? I might be mistaken here. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 @MisterJoshua Don't get me wrong, I love him for all of that. I think 400 points is solid for him, but we have so many other things that are just better to take that you would gimp yourself a bit by having all those points tied into him and not into more Monks\Shooting\Other Wizards\etc.@Vampire That depends on what you're playing under; 1500 is really up to you and your opponent (or TO) to decide if you're playing it at Battlehost level or Vanguard level. If you're only using 2 Battleline, then yeah I suppose you're using Vanguard which means only 2 Behemoth, so your second option with just the Grey Seer + more Clanrats\Warp-Grinder is still solid enough. Either that or run the Bell + Furnace and 6 Jezzails. You should have enough bodies to ensure the Bell\Furnace are always moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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