AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Num]

Anybody building Moulder lists on the new GHB2020? @Ahriman @MasterMoulder @Verminlord @basement dweller @Cosmicsheep @Orphen1991 @wakadaka

 

Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn 😢

Edited July 23, 2020 by Num

[Skreech Verminking]

16 minutes ago, Num said:

Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn

Not against seraphons.

but we should still have a pretty great chance at doing well against most other armies.

[MasterMoulder]

13 minutes ago, Num said:

Anybody building Moulder lists on the new GHB2020? @Ahriman @MasterMoulder @Verminlord @basement dweller @Cosmicsheep @Orphen1991 @wakadaka

 

Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn 😢

My plan is to run:

Verminlord Warpseer (320) w/Master of Magic

Master Moulder (100) w/ Rabid Crown

Master Moulder (100)

Master Moulder (100)

Hellpit Abomination (220)

8x Rat Ogors (360)

40x Giant Rats (200)

40x Giant Rats (200)

40x Giant Rats (200)

40x Giant Rats (200)

 

2000/2000 exactly!

It will be a while before I can get them to the table unfortunately, as my local club is still in lockdown. Not too different to what I have run in the past, but has an extra Master Moulder

[Cosmicsheep]

33 minutes ago, Num said:

Anybody building Moulder lists on the new GHB2020? @Ahriman @MasterMoulder @Verminlord @basement dweller @Cosmicsheep @Orphen1991 @wakadaka

 

Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn 😢

This is my current list for Moulder. It has had absolutely no testing, in any shape or form and is just theory-crafting at this point. I hope to play this list as the first oppurtunity though.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Master Moulder (100)
- Artefact: Rabid Crown
Thanquol on Boneripper (390)
- General
- 4 Warpfire Braziers
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
40 x Giant Rats (200)
6 x Rat Ogors (270)
6 x Rat Ogors (270)
3 x Packmasters (60)
3 x Packmasters (60)
3 x Packmasters (60)
10 x Wolf Rats (200)
Hell Pit Abomination (220)
Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156

Although i may drop Thanquol for the Warpseer and another unit of Packmasters to make full use of the 2nd artefact. Although since we can't take suspicious stone anymore, it'd probably be skavenbrew

Edited July 23, 2020 by Cosmicsheep

[Num]

@MasterMoulder @Cosmicsheep Nice idea for the Warpseer... I feel we lack some long range shooting and at least with the Warpseer we have the dreaded warpgale...

I wanted to run Stormfiends in my lists, but unfortunately they are not very good without buffs.

What about fitting Chronomantic Cogs? Would it be needed or useful to close range?

Edited July 23, 2020 by Num

[MasterMoulder]

1 minute ago, Num said:

@MasterMoulder @Cosmicsheep Nice idea for the Warpseer... I feel we lack some long range shooting and at least with the Warpseer we have the dreaded warpgale...

I wanted to run Stormfiends in my lists, but unfortunately they are not very good without buffs.

I generally hop the warpseer around the table through the Gnawholes. Gives it a bit more range - you can generally position it to hit whatever you want with warpgale or give his battleshock immunity bubble for the giant rats

[Cosmicsheep]

I'm still torn between Warpseer with Warpgale and Thanquol with Death Frenzy.

Imagine 40 giant rats fully buffed by a Master Moulder with Rabid Crown and Death Frenzy 😍😍😍😍

EDIT:  having said that... Warpseer with Skavenbrew and Master Moulder with Rapid Crown 🤩🤩🤩🤩

Edited July 23, 2020 by Cosmicsheep

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Num said:

Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn 😢

If your local meta spams Lumineth, Seraphon or Tzeentch then.. nah, probably not going to go great. Against anything else and I still think it's "okay". It still suffers from the fact we only get the +1 to cast from the Gnawhole which are spread around the table. I would definitely say Thanquol is more of an auto-include in that setup now, especially if you're taking WLV.

I honestly think the 2 biggest hits to my magic based list is losing SoJ and only having 3 Endless Spells allowed in a list. Without SoJ for the Corruptor and the Warpgnaw also losing Ghyrstrike as an alternative, it kind of gets rid of that 6" deepstrike hero\horde assassin that was integral to the list. Only having a max of 3 Endless Spells kill it a bit as well. That said.. yeah, an AW on a Balewind with CWL and his innate WLS is still a fun combo.

34 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Warpseer with Skavenbrew and Master Moulder with Rapid Crown 🤩🤩🤩🤩

Bingo 😉

[Darkhan]

13 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

If your local meta spams Lumineth, Seraphon or Tzeentch then.. nah, probably not going to go great. Against anything else and I still think it's "okay". It still suffers from the fact we only get the +1 to cast from the Gnawhole which are spread around the table. I would definitely say Thanquol is more of an auto-include in that setup now, especially if you're taking WLV.

I honestly think the 2 biggest hits to my magic based list is losing SoJ and only having 3 Endless Spells allowed in a list. Without SoJ for the Corruptor and the Warpgnaw also losing Ghyrstrike as an alternative, it kind of gets rid of that 6" deepstrike hero\horde assassin that was integral to the list. Only having a max of 3 Endless Spells kill it a bit as well. That said.. yeah, an AW on a Balewind with CWL and his innate WLS is still a fun combo.

Bingo 😉

FFFFUUUUK! That's true! SoJ is no more, and I just bought a Corruptor😭
Have 3 Verminlords for the magic list, now its all gone!😭

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Darkhan said:

FFFFUUUUK! That's true! SoJ is no more, and I just bought a Corruptor😭
Have 3 Verminlords for the magic list, now its all gone!😭

Yeah, it's a shame because I bought a Warpgnaw about a month ago but now he'll never see the table.

A potential alternative so he isn't totally useless is the Incandescent Rageblade from Aqshy. Gives exploding 6's to hit which could work with the MW's on 6's I think? Other than that maybe Brooding Blade or Blade of Corruption but.. yeah, no option will equal the damage potential of SoJ unless you take the Corruptor in Legion of Chaos Ascendant to get the Fourfold Blade. A Warpgnaw would probably be the better option now (even without Ghyrstrike) but in doing that you lose an anti-horde spell. If you're bringing Thanquol though, that probably won't matter.
 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Gwendar

[Cosmicsheep]

53 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, it's a shame because I bought a Warpgnaw about a month ago but now he'll never see the table.

Yep... i bought a Warpgnaw a few weeks ago based on all the talk of Ghystrike. He'll only get used now if i ring a 12 on my bell 

I did enjoy painting him though... and that was 50% of why i bought him

[Cosmicsheep]

[MasterMoulder]

14 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Such a cool model. I have always wanted to convert one into a Hellpit abomination.

[Verminlord]

5 hours ago, Num said:

Anybody building Moulder lists on the new GHB2020? @Ahriman @MasterMoulder @Verminlord @basement dweller @Cosmicsheep @Orphen1991 @wakadaka

 

Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn 😢

This is what I'm thinking about trying for moulder with the new points:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Skavenbrew
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Master Moulder (100)
- Artefact: Rabid Crown
Master Moulder (100)

Battleline
40 x Giant Rats (200)
40 x Giant Rats (200)
20 x Giant Rats (120)
20 x Giant Rats (120)
4 x Rat Ogors (180)

Units
3 x Packmasters (60)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (220)
Hell Pit Abomination (220)

Battalions
Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 189
 

Screen withe the 20 rat units, block deepstrike or sit backfield objs. 

Prized creation both hellpits.

Buff your 40 rat blobs with deathfrenzy/ skavenbrew/ rabid crown, clean up with hellpits or ogors.

Have the packmasters babysit the ogors as a distraction, hopefully get a charge off.

Cross your fingers for respawns from MM.

I wish fiends had more synergy with mono moulder so we could have a decent ranged threat. 

Edit: have room for a 30pt endless spell +1 CP. Id take palisade for some anti shooting/ board control

Edited July 23, 2020 by Verminlord

[Verminlord]

I wish GW would release a giant rat sprue basing kit similar to the skulls pack so I didn't have to pilfer plague monk rats and hawk oop metal ones from ebay.

Faction based basing kits could be really cool actually.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Verminlord

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

I wish GW would release a giant rat sprue basing kit similar to the skulls pack so I didn't have to pilfer plague monk rats and hawk oop metal ones from ebay.

Faction based basing kits could be really cool actually.

I wish games workshop would update all those outdated models in our range.

 

[Verminlord]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

I wish games workshop would update all those outdated models in our range.

 

Fair haha. I guess the question is whether they refresh existing sculpts or go with a new clan/range. If we ever get a warcry warband they could update a lot in one swing.

[Blisterfeet]

So I fell down the preferable gnaw hole after having my Verminlord completed (picture below) and I now own the models shown in the list. 

Help this new rat in town finish a list, do I buy a thanquol drop the bell and go 4 brazier punch machine? I am running the battalion to just get an extra artifact but maybe you think I am eating too many warpstones and have gone mad! 

List 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Cunning
- Artefact: Skavenbrew
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- Artefact: Incandescent Rageblade
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Plague Harbingers
20 x Plague Monks (160)
- Foetid Blades
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Plague Harbingers
15 x Plague Censer Bearers (180)
Plagueclaw (150)
Plagueclaw (150)
Congregation of Filth (160)

Total: 1800 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

Verminlord attached

Spoiler

I didn't paint it 😘

 

[Darkhan]

7 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, it's a shame because I bought a Warpgnaw about a month ago but now he'll never see the table.

A potential alternative so he isn't totally useless is the Incandescent Rageblade from Aqshy. Gives exploding 6's to hit which could work with the MW's on 6's I think? Other than that maybe Brooding Blade or Blade of Corruption but.. yeah, no option will equal the damage potential of SoJ unless you take the Corruptor in Legion of Chaos Ascendant to get the Fourfold Blade. A Warpgnaw would probably be the better option now (even without Ghyrstrike) but in doing that you lose an anti-horde spell. If you're bringing Thanquol though, that probably won't matter.
 

I was super underwhelmed when I saw the realm artefacts. Everything is rerolling ones by the first glance. Super easy solution by GW compared to all the other recent greatness:/ Such a waste of cool artefact ideas.
How easily they just tossed all of those artefacts in the trash, makes you wonder how easy they can toss other stuff.
Mortars? Why did they go? They were not OP at all? 

[Gwendar]

16 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

I was super underwhelmed when I saw the realm artefacts. Everything is rerolling ones by the first glance. Super easy solution by GW compared to all the other recent greatness:/ Such a waste of cool artefact ideas.
How easily they just tossed all of those artefacts in the trash, makes you wonder how easy they can toss other stuff.
Mortars? Why did they go? They were not OP at all? 

I mean yeah, but at the same time they had way too many choices before and there was maybe 1-2 good ones per realm anyway. Many armies didn't even bother with their own artifacts and always chose one of those, which is what they didn't want. Of course that hurts those armies because their artifacts aren't exactly great by comparison, but ah well. I would still say it's a net positive since now I don't have to worry about 2-3+ save ethereal monsters running around 😉

The mortars are.. odd. They were clearly in the pictures for our tome yet didn't show up. The issue with all those sculpts was that they came from IoB\SoD and were all mixed sprues with (now squatted) High Elves. I would assume it wasn't worth producing any of those Skaven models if they knew the High Elves would be squatted in a year anyway and they had to do them both together unless they re-made those molds. I really do miss those Mortars.. that was back in the day the Warpspark would double their damage to 12 and they were cheap enough to always take 3-4 of them as long range guns 😅

[Darkhan]

3 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I mean yeah, but at the same time they had way too many choices before and there was maybe 1-2 good ones per realm anyway. Many armies didn't even bother with their own artifacts and always chose one of those, which is what they didn't want. Of course that hurts those armies because their artifacts aren't exactly great by comparison, but ah well. I would still say it's a net positive since now I don't have to worry about 2-3+ save ethereal monsters running around 😉

The mortars are.. odd. They were clearly in the pictures for our tome yet didn't show up. The issue with all those sculpts was that they came from IoB\SoD and were all mixed sprues with (now squatted) High Elves. I would assume it wasn't worth producing any of those Skaven models if they knew the High Elves would be squatted in a year anyway and they had to do them both together unless they re-made those molds. I really do miss those Mortars.. that was back in the day the Warpspark would double their damage to 12 and they were cheap enough to always take 3-4 of them as long range guns 😅

12! Haha, sounds epic😂

Very much agree with you on the 2-3+ ethereal save madness;p Well..if you look at it that way, it kind of came out good for Skaven, since you now can only have 1 after save. And the realm of death gives skaven after saves!😃 If you so wish.

[Ratty_McRatface]

Is it just me or can Verminlords not fight good?

Listening to the latest warhammer-weekly and Vince brought up that no monsters should not have damage 1 attacks.  This has always been something I have thought was a problem with the Verminlords.  Despite all there muscles and weapons as large as a Storcast (plaguereapers, punch-dagger and doomstar)  or with the Doom-glaive warp stone infused terrifyingly destructive looking weapon the size of a tree they all hit like a wet noodle.  It just doesn't feel right on the table that they have to run away from combat against fairly wimpy looking opposition. (even though skaven runing away is always a good option)

The Utility of the models is great and they have over all have good spells, but they just cant take on a fight in combat and that has always urked me.  The Corruptor can't on average kill a single ogre in a round of combat...

to fix this I would do the following:

+1 damage across the board to all weapon profiles (minus the tails)

(would also change the plague reaper ability to proc 2 morals or 6's to hit) 

I know there are lots of monsters across the game that need this treatment also even more badly like the Cygor and Gorgan and the Maggoth riders. 

Hopefully the new Seraphon monsters are a sign of the future cuz they look much better to me.

 

Am I crazy?

[Skreech Verminking]

29 minutes ago, Ratty_McRatface said:

Is it just me or can Verminlords not fight good?

Listening to the latest warhammer-weekly and Vince brought up that no monsters should not have damage 1 attacks.  This has always been something I have thought was a problem with the Verminlords.  Despite all there muscles and weapons as large as a Storcast (plaguereapers, punch-dagger and doomstar)  or with the Doom-glaive warp stone infused terrifyingly destructive looking weapon the size of a tree they all hit like a wet noodle.  It just doesn't feel right on the table that they have to run away from combat against fairly wimpy looking opposition. (even though skaven runing away is always a good option)

The Utility of the models is great and they have over all have good spells, but they just cant take on a fight in combat and that has always urked me.  The Corruptor can't on average kill a single ogre in a round of combat...

to fix this I would do the following:

+1 damage across the board to all weapon profiles (minus the tails)

(would also change the plague reaper ability to proc 2 morals or 6's to hit) 

I know there are lots of monsters across the game that need this treatment also even more badly like the Cygor and Gorgan and the Maggoth riders. 

Hopefully the new Seraphon monsters are a sign of the future cuz they look much better to me.

 

Am I crazy?

Well the Verminlord Warbringer, is probably one of our best melee options.

He might not do as much damage as a Ghoulking on terrorgheist, and may look like a joke in comparison with a healthy Keeper, but with the things-bane artefact and the brutal fury commandtrait, not much will survive his fury.

and even without the ct or artefact he will do on average 10-15wounds against a 4+ save, so most small units should pretty easily die against him.

 

 

[Kramer]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:34 PM, The Red King said:

feels like the neatest package I can do is to bring 5 gutter runners to screen and a viletide or bell spell.

What about 10 night runners. Their pre-game moves means you can set your screen up field a bit more and put a bit more distance between you and deepstriking shooters like KO even if they take turn one 

[Gwendar]

34 minutes ago, Ratty_McRatface said:

Is it just me or can Verminlords not fight good?

Am I crazy?

Oh absolutely not. I mean, the Deceiver barely has a chance to kill a 5 wound hero on average, but he fits more towards killing bigger things, without the output to do it. SoJ is what made the Corruptor good in melee but now that it's gone.. not really. Same with the Warpgnaw with Ghyrstrike, without that he's severely hampered.

Your suggestions could probably be enough to not justify a points increase, although I wouldn't trust GW to not do that anyway. Bottom line is that they just seem to be made as support pieces, but even then only 2 (3 if you're pure Pestilens) are really worth bringing in my opinion and even those are up in the air when you take their cost into consideration for just that 1 role.

I expect more out of a greater demon, but it seems that Tzeentch (for magic) and Slaanesh (for combat) won out in their respective departments.