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basement dweller

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  1. So played a 1000 points against orcs tonight. Took the following list based on the suggestions provided: God seekers Sigvald Bladebringer on chariot (general, sweeping slash) 2x blissbarbs 2x5 painbringers (bounty hunters) Ungor raiders Game went well and got the win. Sigvald rolled 11 on the charge but struggled to kill beefed up pigs doing only 4 wounds. Needed more command points and buffing to maximize him. He died on the retaliation with some poor armour rolling. Painbringers are great. I can feel that i want more damage but they are tanky and hard to kill...especially in this fragile army. Ungor raiders were amazing. DP generation help as a poor mans blissbarb archers. Great screen as you dont care if they die. Well worth the 80 points. Chariot did 9MW wounds on the charge and generated 3DP. Its fragile but i think teamed up with some painbringers can be really useful. Magic was trash but thats my rolling. I need more command points...i feel i was always short with so many units needing to pass bravery to ensure i generate DP and boosting attacks/defense. I will look to see what could help me with this. Playing again in 2 weeks...so will ponder any changes before then...
  2. Thank you. I pondered the bladebringer chariot (exalted or regular?) but was concerned of it dying too quick as i will be wanting to charge every turn...but perhaps i can manage that by picking my spots to keep it out of trouble...for a while anyways. Godseekers vs lurid haze is a good question however that you bring up. The plus to charge, and huge dp bonus with a charg-y general has some appeal. I would also get to pick a better artifact and command trait. I do like the lurid haze for increasing my mobility and keeping sigvald safe turn one...but its hard to fully utilize the benefits at this points level.
  3. Thank you. They are a lot of points and i would like a fast unit/screen for some utility. I havent looked at the mask in a while. I have the model but didnt even consider using it. I would like 2 heroes and maybe a cheaper one is the way to go. My twinsouls are the furthest behind in the painting cycle...but will make sure they are ready for 1500 points..
  4. Good evening, I have been painting my hedonites for about 6 months now it is time to use them....despite the flaws and challenges. I will embrace our weaknesses and use them as an excuse when i lose, as opposed to my mistakes and forgetting half the rules. I am in an escalation league over the next few months that starts at 1000 points and then cimbs to 1500 and then 2000. Ive been following this forum for a while and other groups and discussions to help me decide what to use. Similar to what many have suggested, i am thinking the following at 1000: Sigvald Synessa 2x 11 blissbarb archers 2x 5 painbringers Leaning towards lurid haze to get sigvald in alive to mess with things and genetally make me more mobile than i am. Just wondering peoples thoughts on this list and even jumping to 1500 then 2000. I have most models and can get some allies if need be, especially monsters/beasts as i love them too. We had some point drops but didnt feel that made the models more worth it. I played 1500 with a jabberslyth and he did 11MWs from just dying on durthu.....that was awesome for 150 points. The chimera still feels useful with his mortal would breath and plus to charge. Cockatrice okay despite the extra points? Exalted chariot hero feels okay but fragile and so still feels like a summons. Mindstealer Sphiranx, cygor, fomorian crusher...nothing game breaking but maybe still worth a try? For actually killing things...twinsouls my best option? Slickblades? Endless spells? Anyone having success? Feels like a nice source of chip damage, especially with the contored epitome and the dual cast/rerolls. Thank you. I know many of these discussions have come up before, but just wondering if there is a shift or something new worth trying. Im fine to be a bit more risky and try things...helps if it feels slaaneshy....
  5. Nice to see you still winning with the Phoencium. I tend to agree qbout thr dragons....feel they are better in living city. My epxerience with hammerhall is zilch, so less confident about that. I like that you made your fire phoenix the general...that way your opponent has to decide which one to kill as you made the fire more valuable as your general. I played 2 -1000 point games against new deepkin and flesh eaters. Lost both but bith very close. My list was also not optimized for 1000 points as i wanted to use my usual units to help me memorize the rules (2 phoenix guard, frost phoenix, 2 assasins, 1 shadow warriors, 1 chariot). What did i learn? Fish hit hard now...no eels needed. However, this list rolling well can take the full charge and not budge...especially with dying models getting to strike before they leave. I retailiated and things evened out. Lost on the final 2 turns when i missed a 7 inch charge with reroll, then an 8 inch charge with reroll. Scourge runner chariots are geneally worth the 80 points. Often get an objective first turn. Can get lucky with mortals and irritate your opponent. Opponent has to over commit to deal with it as you can send shadow warriors and assassins to reinforce it or keep them with your phoenix guard depending what your opponent does. I often have to go first....and there is no need to go to the objetives and give your opponent the ability to charge and dictate the combat. I have to let go of those victory points if my opponent is largely fast..or sacrifice something. Against the eels i rollled well and got away with it. Against the flesh eaters i didnt roll great and got beat. I think i could have slow played both and used the assasins/shadow warriors better. Still a fun list. Chariot did 11 damage against the fish...assasson did 6 mortal wound against the glesh eater general and kill him for those big victory points.... Im tempted to try out the dual phoenixes in living city with some deep striking archers....but want to stick with phoenicium...for now...
  6. Not sure i got the fulll kragnos experience but it went well. My opponent placed kragnos between the left and center objectives assuming i would castle in the middle. I instead castled on the far right and minimized his time to earn his points back. His mw on the charge against monsters is rhe scariest thing but he roll a 2 and 3 for 6 mortals...and i passed 5 of those 6 with the ward save. We have a lot of rend 1 which when spammed is very helpful. Also hitting on 2s a lot of the time, the volume of quality attacks makes up for the lack of high rend. As well, attacking on many fronts prevented them from armour stacking as they wanted to protect squishier units...so i did solid damage to him. I think we have the tools to deal with him...as long as our ward saves are statiscally average or beyter, it will minimize his mortal output...unless he rolls well and you wont get enough 4+s for that....but thats not going to.happen often. After seeing my hurricanum having a good game, im struggling to feel that dropping him is the way to go even though i want more cheaper fodder...from a purely competitive position anyways. Metal hawks as bombers sounds super fun...ive thought about it a few times...didnt think of painting them as phoenixes but that too is a great idea. I think bomber/copters could be helpful or at least fun...and thematic as well. Ive also pondered the mantic balloon brigade as well...cuz i love the look of them... https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-factions/halflings/aeronauts-regiment/
  7. Played another game today with the phoenicium list. I used Jeremy's lvo list ( 2 frost phoenixes, hurricanum, 3 x 10 phoenix guard, 2 x 10 shadow warriors, 3 assassins and a chariot) Opponent wanted to use a newly painted kragnos so he came...plus a bunch of orruks...2 units of pigs, 2 unit of ard boys, some brutes, megaboss, incantor, shaman...maybe some stuff i forgot. Chariot earned its 80 points...got an objective early and tied up too many models to bring it down. It did so well i sent over the 2 units of shadow stalkers and an assassin and the took the left side of the board. Shadow warriors had a good day...one unit made the 9 inch charge qnd worked over some ard boys before being wiped out. The assassin and the other unit of shapow warriors finshed off the ard boys and the brutes. I castled up with everything else. Took the right side of the table and then pushed for the middle. The 4+ ward was in full effect and nothing was dying. Kragnos charged a phoenix and i thought he was doomed....but poor roll on the charge mortal wound attack and some great ward saves the phoenix stood up to him...mush to the frsutration of my opponent. I was looking to replace the hurricanum in this list...but with no opposition shooting it poored out the mortal wounds to the orcs all game and earned it points back. Never failed a cast which was nice too. We called it after 4 turns. I had the points advantage and my opponent would need some good luck to turn the tide. Second game and the 4+ ward once again frustrated my opponent. I rolled well and could have easily lost...but happy with this list and its really enjoyable. Dropping 20 shadow warriors and 3 assassins in a turn is super fun qnd shifts the balance of everything on the board. Id like another cheap, mobile piece but not sure how best to do that yet.
  8. Thats insane...and hillarious. Im up to 4 assassins models with my old fantasy dark elves included and 20 shadow stalkers. Now i have a goal to get to 6 and 50...
  9. Fair point on not needing the shadow warriors and their role can be filled by shooting or other units. I guess i like them not getting shot and knowing they will get to shoot at least once before dying. They can also serve to screen, shoot, harass other shooters, claim objectives depending on the game and the opponent. I feel they are more versatile than shooters qnd provide some needed mobility...but dont kill things as well as dedicated shooters would. Ive ponderd pistoliers/chariots/dedicated shooters as alternatives. I will experiment with them as see whats works....for my play style at least. I have 1 stormstrike chariot so may squeeze him in. Thanks for the feedback on the flamespyre. Your reports made me feel like he was a MW machine...so your dose of reality is helpful.
  10. I really dont see a build of this army that can work (against all armies) without the shadow warriors. I want a little more out of them, but you need that mobility and something that can get to those shooters reliably...dont know we have much (anything) else that can do it without the bridge or using living city. Im running Jeremy's list against Kragnos and some orcs on thursday. I will see if i can make it work. Im concerned about the lack of mortals and the lack of screens. Hoping the chariot and the shadow warriors can fill that role. @readercolinHave you felt your list (original) lacking in the mortal damage area against the big tanks? Jeremys list has the hurricanum for this but im not sold on it as i think it will die first every game...id rather give more targets and some more chaff. While i agree the fire phoenix feels less optimal compared to the frost, your fire brings that mortal damage help. I only have 30 phoenix guard painted so cant go with more of them. I do like the idea of swapping the hurricanum for a battlemage and some more chariots...maybe...giving me more mobility, screening and maybe some mortals with 3 chariots instead of 1 shooting at the same thing. I have a day to ponder...
  11. So based on this thread i was inspired to fire up a Phoenician list. I played 1500 versus Luminith tonight to try things out. I went with the following: Annointed on Frost Phoenix with arcane tome Hurricanum 2 assassins 3 x 10 units phoenix guard 10 shadow warriors Scourgerunner chariot He has teclis, 2x 10 wardens, 20 sentinels, lifeswarm, twin stones The game was super fun. We callled it a draw after 4 turns as time ran out on us. Could have gone either way as we were tied on points. Teclis has 1 would and my phoenix had 5. All 3 phoenix guard units were alive and my shadow warriors were dying to the sentinals. My magic was shut down all game and my Hurricanum was killed turned 2 by elf bows. I was also held back by all command abilities requiring 2 command points. Really hurt my ability to get off living idols. What did i learn? List is super fun. The assassins are great in this army as they are scary enough that your opponent willl often deal with them too soon...and then units of phoenix guard are hitting and wounding on 2s. I think they are key piece to make this army go. 1 phoenix is not enough....you need the redundancy and coverage. With 1 i was struggling to pull off the command ability that makes this list tick. That said 4 phoenix guard died and their dying attacks ensured i held the objective qnd kept me in the game. As others have said, the 4+ ward save makes people devote too much to kill the phoenix guard...or they dont die qnd just keep hanging around. I kinda want a 4th unit. Shadow warriors feel key to tie up/ take down shooters...but i am going to try it without them. They are really useful but not as deadly as i want (ive used them before this game and felt the same). I think small, fragile non-battleline units help this army go. Those assassins die and your other units get soo much better. Im going to try to squeeze in some more small units to see of i can trigger the +1/+1 a little more. Maybe a sacrificial gyrocoptor as someone suggested..or more chariots. Not sure on the hurricanum in this list. It brings mortals for sure...but just another unit you need to keep in your bubble. Im leaning towards a nomad prince and some wildwood rangers. This would give you a scary blob that can work with or independent of the phoenixes when needed. Maybe executioners and a sorceress. Looking forward to taking them out again next week.
  12. Thank you for the super detailed response. I can see the benefits you speak of and see all the things they can contribute...for a mere 80 points. Vengeful revenents was my first thought when i saw the list using these, but interesting you see that as a nice when it happens but as you said, it can be worked around. I appreciate you reviving this thread....its nice to see people doing well with what is considered the weakest of the cities. I need a second pheonix to pull off this army but want to try it out...
  13. I like this list as i like my dark elves but agree that i think this works best with the pheonix guard due to the survivability. Im curious on your thoughts on the assassins. I havent watched the video but do you think earn their points back? Im struggling to see their value....but i do love my dark elves so would love to include them more...
  14. Thank you sir. This is very helpful. I want to paint my stormfiends but understand your mixed feelings on them. What would you replace them with? Rat ogres? Stormvermin? Lots of points to play with...
  15. Would you mind sharing your list? I can make out most from the photo but curious on the heroes and enhancments taken. Im trying to get inspired to paint some more rats that are not moulder....
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