AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

37 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Another version of the list, is swapping out the AH and Doomwheel for a verminlord deceiver with gnawbomb, to get that HPA right in the face of the enemy;p 

Always an option, but I generally don't opt to deepstrike things 9" away unless I have some +'s to charge; rolling a 9 is a bit above average and thus not ultra reliable on it's own. Not that it isn't a good thing to try to do but I don't find it will generally payoff. You'll be real feelsbadman when it fails a charge with a re-roll and then stands there to get 1-shot. A Deceiver isn't going to be doing a lot for you either, but I think we've had this discussion here before about how he can be a proper assassin instead of it being the Corrupter 😉

If you brought Cogs along that could help but.. at that point you have to ask yourself if you're overinvesting in that particular strategy; not to mention you would also be making your opponent faster.

[Darkhan]

23 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Always an option, but I generally don't opt to deepstrike things 9" away unless I have some +'s to charge; rolling a 9 is a bit above average and thus not ultra reliable on it's own. Not that it isn't a good thing to try to do but I don't find it will generally payoff. You'll be real feelsbadman when it fails a charge with a re-roll and then stands there to get 1-shot. A Deceiver isn't going to be doing a lot for you either, but I think we've had this discussion here before about how he can be a proper assassin instead of it being the Corrupter 😉

If you brought Cogs along that could help but.. at that point you have to ask yourself if you're overinvesting in that particular strategy; not to mention you would also be making your opponent faster.

True true, have already made another T1 super bomb skaven list for this super deepstrike purpose;p
 

[Skreech Verminking]

Yeah deepstriking with the skaven really sounds interesting.

the reason why I never really used something likewise is basically the reason that it cost so much points and literally almost everything has to work,

at least with this list down here:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
LEADERS
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact : Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : Warp Lightning Shield
Verminlord Deceiver (320)
- Artefact : Gnawbomb
Skaven Clawlord on Brood Horror (160)
- General
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Savage Overlord
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Stormvermin (450)
- Halberd & Shield
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
BATTALIONS
Claw-horde (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80) Extra Command Point (50)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 140
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

it’s great but basically a one trick pony.

and as most deep striking army list, it could literally just fall apart

[Darkhan]

19 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah deepstriking with the skaven really sounds interesting.

the reason why I never really used something likewise is basically the reason that it cost so much points and literally almost everything has to work,

at least with this list down here:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
LEADERS
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact : Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : Warp Lightning Shield
Verminlord Deceiver (320)
- Artefact : Gnawbomb
Skaven Clawlord on Brood Horror (160)
- General
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Savage Overlord
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Stormvermin (450)
- Halberd & Shield
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
BATTALIONS
Claw-horde (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80) Extra Command Point (50)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 140
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

it’s great but basically a one trick pony.

and as most deep striking army list, it could literally just fall apart

You could also put 2x40 plague monks underground with 2x warp-grinders, 6 charge with the cogs😂

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

You could also put 2x40 plague monks underground with 2x warp-grinders, 6 charge with the cogs😂

And then you meet one of many something elite death players.

with their 3+ rerolling everything save imortis guard.

No my friend, a true (mad) skavenplayer always has a horde of backstabbing stormvermins ready to kill-kill

(or die miserable)

[Firefrog]

Been playing with only Stormfiends for a long time, but in the current meta I feel they're really poor. Their best attack has a threat range of 18" and many armies have ways to deal with it before they become a threat. Never tried bridge, but with just 6 stormfiends now I don't feel it's even an option. Also, not getting MMWP off on them gimps them severely. So, I've come up with the following list:

Quote

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
 

I tried it out yesterday against Daughters of Khaine, and damn I was impressed with it. Jezzails give so much pressure, and if that wasn't enough an HPA eats up Witch Aelves like they're nothing. He did play the temple with -1 to hit, but WLC's don't care and with MMWP I got plently 6's on the Jezzails.

Lost in the end still due to bad placement and great luck on his charges, but I felt I had a chance compared to my other regular lists (40 monks, 6 stormfiends)

[Cosmicsheep]

I’ve also been thinking along those lines. My fiends are either amazing, or get targeted before they can do much.

I’m in the process of converting another 6 jezzails to make a unit of 12. I think this might be the way to go.

[Darkhan]

1 hour ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I’ve also been thinking along those lines. My fiends are either amazing, or get targeted before they can do much.

I’m in the process of converting another 6 jezzails to make a unit of 12. I think this might be the way to go.

12!? Damn😂

[Icefighter]

Noobie question. Can i mix all kinds of units or is there specific ways i can/should build different lists? So i for example dont buy a hero that buffs models i dont even have etc etc

Edited March 13, 2020 by Icefighter

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Firefrog said:

Been playing with only Stormfiends for a long time, but in the current meta I feel they're really poor. Their best attack has a threat range of 18" and many armies have ways to deal with it before they become a threat. Never tried bridge, but with just 6 stormfiends now I don't feel it's even an option. Also, not getting MMWP off on them gimps them severely. So, I've come up with the following list:

I tried it out yesterday against Daughters of Khaine, and damn I was impressed with it. Jezzails give so much pressure, and if that wasn't enough an HPA eats up Witch Aelves like they're nothing. He did play the temple with -1 to hit, but WLC's don't care and with MMWP I got plently 6's on the Jezzails.

Lost in the end still due to bad placement and great luck on his charges, but I felt I had a chance compared to my other regular lists (40 monks, 6 stormfiends)

Yes and no. They can still do well, but I stopped using bridge due to it exposing them. Now that I have been using Night Runners to cover more screening distance, I could go back to using the Bridge and have a reliable screen... that said, I don't think it's needed. I definitely think the 'standard' 40 Monks + 6 Fiends list is effectively dead.

I've been going with 3 threats minimum and so far it's been working exponentially better; I don't have to call the game as soon as the Fiends die early on as I have other tools to deal with problems. In this regard, I've used Acolytes to great effect and being much cheaper allows me to much easier fit in 3-4 threats. Here's a quick math-comparison of 6 Fiends vs. 20 Acolytes with +1 hit (Vigordust) and +1 damage (Spark) between using just Deranged Inventor for the hit RR's and getting off MMMWP:


I would likely be running 25-30 Acolytes, but I wouldn't assume all would make it in which is why I calculated this with 20. Bottom line is the comparison are about equal; both have a nearly identical threat range and killing potential, although Acolytes will be less defensive.. but in my experience that doesn't matter much as things can just as easily 1-shot the Fiends as they can 30 Acolytes. Using the above, you save 200 points which can be thrown at plenty of other things.

I've talked in the past about Fiends + Acolytes being ran together is okay to do and can work well, but I think that overall we're seeing a shift towards more than 2 threats being on the board.

[Firefrog]

18 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yes and no. They can still do well, but I stopped using bridge due to it exposing them. Now that I have been using Night Runners to cover more screening distance, I could go back to using the Bridge and have a reliable screen... that said, I don't think it's needed. I definitely think the 'standard' 40 Monks + 6 Fiends list is effectively dead.

I've been going with 3 threats minimum and so far it's been working exponentially better; I don't have to call the game as soon as the Fiends die early on as I have other tools to deal with problems. In this regard, I've used Acolytes to great effect and being much cheaper allows me to much easier fit in 3-4 threats. Here's a quick math-comparison of 6 Fiends vs. 20 Acolytes with +1 hit (Vigordust) and +1 damage (Spark) between using just Deranged Inventor for the hit RR's and getting off MMMWP:


I would likely be running 25-30 Acolytes, but I wouldn't assume all would make it in which is why I calculated this with 20. Bottom line is the comparison are about equal; both have a nearly identical threat range and killing potential, although Acolytes will be less defensive.. but in my experience that doesn't matter much as things can just as easily 1-shot the Fiends as they can 30 Acolytes. Using the above, you save 200 points which can be thrown at plenty of other things.

I've talked in the past about Fiends + Acolytes being ran together is okay to do and can work well, but I think that overall we're seeing a shift towards more than 2 threats being on the board.

Seen your graphs before, may I ask what tool you are using?

On topic: Damn! Didn't even know that, and I think you're on the right track. I might even try to replace them with the WLC's, I have the jezzails for long range threat.

I suppose you're running something similar these days? 30 acolytes, 9 jezzails, 40 monks?

[Gwendar]

23 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

Seen your graphs before, may I ask what tool you are using?

On topic: Damn! Didn't even know that, and I think you're on the right track. I might even try to replace them with the WLC's, I have the jezzails for long range threat.

I suppose you're running something similar these days? 30 acolytes, 9 jezzails, 40 monks?

https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/

I have mixed results with WLC's like most people. but I think if you can fit 2 that's the best thing to do to get consistency out of them. I think if you can only fit one, you may be better off running a Doomwheel instead for the MW's, speed, and potential to 1-shot something that's hiding from all your other ranged.

Currently I'm testing out 30 Acolytes, 9 Jezzails, an HPA and a Doomwheel with a WLV.. @Darkhan got me thinking about adding in the Doomwheel. Thing is, is that I could drop the AW I'm running down to an Engineer (I always run 2), drop the Doomwheel and WLV and suddenly have 320 points to play with that could be put into 40 Monks if I so desire. I think what I may try however is drop the WLV to throw in an extra CP to start and run Vermintide as it's been my go-to endless spell lately. Not that it is doing a lot of damage on average, but it sure is an annoyance to opponents in most cases and makes them think twice about movement\charges with certain things. I love WLV, but the meta has a lot of magic flying around and the reliability of getting off Skitterleap + WLV is a lot harder when things like LoC's, New Seraphon and Cities of Sigmar can throw out easy unbinds.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Gwendar

[Gwendar]

Hey everyone, wanna see something stupid that may\may not work and I'm definitely not considering?
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
1 x Doomwheel (160)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 178
 

2 Heroes is bad but.. so much death-death.. even without Death Frenzy. 5 Threats.. which, by the way is likely what we will see from the New Seraphon; lots of cheap things that when buffed become insane.. get some Saurus Guard around your CP generating batteries (who also have good casting) and.. well, I think they'll be harder to deal with than previous. Not to mention a double-turned Comets Call + Pyramid ability killing our heroes with no way to escape from it due to board-wide unbinding\casting of that particular spell but... that's a different discussion 😉

Anyway, will I try this list? Yes.. if someone want's to beat me to the punch, please do by all means and tell me how it goes. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Gwendar

[Firefrog]

21 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Hey everyone, wanna see something stupid that may\may not work and I'm definitely not considering?

2 Heroes is bad but.. so much death-death.. even without Death Frenzy. 5 Threats.. which, by the way is likely what we will see from the New Seraphon; lots of cheap things that when buffed become insane.. get some Saurus Guard around your CP generating batteries (who also have good casting) and.. well, I think they'll be harder to deal with than previous. Not to mention a double-turned Comets Call + Pyramid ability killing our heroes with no way to escape from it due to board-wide unbinding\casting of that particular spell but... that's a different discussion 😉

Anyway, will I try this list? Yes.. if someone want's to beat me to the punch, please do by all means and tell me how it goes. 

I actually made nearly the same list (just after your post lol), but I skipped the doomwheel and went for grey seer on bell and a bombardier. Instead of the bombardier you could still use an engineer and grab Vermintide.

I think with everything we have that's so low on bravery and tends to run fast you really need one source of battleshock immunity besides spending CP.

And, I've never had succes with Doomwheels, in my limited experience with them they don't do enough.

[Gwendar]

12 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

I actually made nearly the same list (just after your post lol), but I skipped the doomwheel and went for grey seer on bell and a bombardier. Instead of the bombardier you could still use an engineer and grab Vermintide.

I think with everything we have that's so low on bravery and tends to run fast you really need one source of battleshock immunity besides spending CP.

And, I've never had succes with Doomwheels, in my limited experience with them they don't do enough.

I'm still up in the air when it comes to the Bell.. so I will likely mess around with it. Even having 4 threats around is still nice.. having 5 is just for meme-potential if anything 😅... but I still think 3 is the potential sweet-spot.

Doomwheels are a mixed bag just like WLC's which is why I think you should bring 2 if you go that route. Doomwheels tend to have more success for me on average than a single WLC. It's the potential threat they pose with speed and killing potential; they're a nice cheap candidate for taking lightly guarded objectives and being able to take out support heroes if needed. Of course... you could always throw in 2x10 Night Runners for board coverage if you need for the same cost which I think is a good alternative currently.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Gwendar

[Firefrog]

6 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I'm still up in the air when it comes to the Bell.. so I will likely mess around with it. Even having 4 threats around is still nice.. having 5 is just for meme-potential if anything 😅... but I still think 3 is the potential sweet-spot.

Doomwheels are a mixed bag just like WLC's which is why I think you should bring 2 if you go that route. Doomwheels tend to have more success for me on average than a single WLC. It's the potential threat they pose with speed and killing potential; they're a nice cheap candidate for taking lightly guarded objectives and being able to take out support heroes if needed. Of course... you could always throw in 2x10 Night Runners for board coverage if you need for the same cost which I think is a good alternative currently.

Well yea sure it has it's purpose. But like most things that overcharge I've seen too many 1's or double 1's... then miss all the attacks, take 2d6 mortals and die myself. Hilarious but in competetive play not such a fan haha.

I do hate that we don't have decent battalions, our drops are through the roof.  It's not that they're that bad, but the requirements are too harsh.

With my FEC army I love deciding who goes first.

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

WIP on an warlock engineer, trying to do some greenstuff smoke/smog from out of the exhausts

[Overread]

REMINDER - today is the LAST day to order (its down to hours for most territories so don't delay!) The Loathsome Ratmen and All Their Vile Kin - the definitive lore book for Skaven. It's Print on Demand so it might take a while to arrive, but like all GW's print on demand it should be a top quality paperback book chock full of fantastic lore and background and artwork on all things Skaven.

 

Whilst it is set in the Old World; the Skaven survived the End Times almost totally unchanged from their original selves. So much of the general lore is going to be very relevant to the modern AoS era skaven. 

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

REMINDER - today is the LAST day to order (its down to hours for most territories so don't delay!) The Loathsome Ratmen and All Their Vile Kin - the definitive lore book for Skaven. It's Print on Demand so it might take a while to arrive, but like all GW's print on demand it should be a top quality paperback book chock full of fantastic lore and background and artwork on all things Skaven.

 

Whilst it is set in the Old World; the Skaven survived the End Times almost totally unchanged from their original selves. So much of the general lore is going to be very relevant to the modern AoS era skaven. 

I wasn't even gonna pull the trigger on it until you said this T_T

 

I could've bought the original off ebay after factoring in shipping lol

[Overread]

UK side GW's reprints have been either cheaper than most ebay or about the same. They were certainly cheaper than most of the Libre Chaotica floating around and their Inferno reprints were roughly the same. Limited run lore books tend to go up in value (the Eldar art books are insanely priced now) and whilst you can get good deals you sort of have to hope for either a personal trade or for someone to miss-list it a bit so that it doesn't get notice.d 

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

Has my first game today 4 player free for all, 

My list

Arch warlock, 2xstormfiends, 2xdoomwheel

Kharadron 

Khemist, balloon hero, frigate, 10 thunderers, 2xarkanaut 

Slaanesh 

Keeper of secrets, mask, harp lady, 3xdaemonettes

Seraphon starborn

Slaan, sunblood, asroloth bearer, 2xsaurus, bastilodon

 

Turn 1

I went first decided to pop shot slaanesh and sent in both doomwheels (one wiffed) ended up killing 1 almost 2 daemonette units and wounding harp lady. Seraphon moved towards kharadron not much really happened. Kharadron dealt alot of damage in return to seraphon. Slaanesh moved towards me (whelp) lost both wheels. 

 

Turn 2

Kharadron went first and wrecked the seraphon. Slaanesh went second (was really needing to go before them to shoot his keeper) summoned in some hellstriders? Chicken riders 😂 thankfully he wiffed big time with the keeper, I scurried away the warlock from the mask and the stormfiends all survived in combat leaving the keeper on 1 wound! Seraphon went next trying in vain to damage kharadron (he put everything into the frigate that just kept healing) and was left with just a bastilodon in the end while I killed the mask and keeper losing a single fiend. Skaven turn i moved the fiends forward towards slaanesh deployment to try kill his last hero so he couldn't use all his summon points, failed mmwp but still blasted him leaving 3 hellstriders, 5 daemonettes and no heros failed the charges otherwise would have wiped the hellstriders. 

 

Had to call the game there due to late start but it was really fun! I love this army even though I think the dorfs would have won since seraphon literally did nothing to them. The doomwheels did OK actually but I think the fulminator artefact could have been better used on something else like vigordust injector it was great turn 1 but then out of range maybe I played it wrong? All in all really happy how the army performed stormfiends are just brutal. 

 

Shame I forgot pictures was very chaotic 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Gypsy_Pistolero

[Malakhov]

Greetings  fellow rat lovers. Ill start by mentioning I know nothing of AoS. I'm a  warcry player and fell in love with my skaven warband and I want to  expand their forces and play AoS with them.

I have 3 stormfiends since I bought a box of them for warcry and I'm planning on getting the swarm box that contains the following:

1x Grey Seer

20x Clanrats

1x Plagueclaw Catapult or Warp Lightning Cannon

20x Plague Monks

1x Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace

1x Plague Priest

1x Verminlord

To complete the above I found this from a local seller (50% off and unpainted) and dont know what I should get from the following. I want to play a skaventide army and having a lot of clanrats and plague monks is a must for me. 

80 clanrats

20 plague censer bearers

60 plague monks

20 night runners/gutter runners

8 rat ogres

7 packmasters

3 warplock jezzails

2 warpfire thrower

1 doomflayer

1 rattling gun

2 mortar

1 clawlord

2 warlock engineers

1 screaming bell

1 hellpit abomination

1 doom wheels

1 plagueclaw

1 warp lightning cannon

Any advice? Thank you!

Edited March 15, 2020 by Malakhov
Spelling

[Cosmicsheep]

Looks like you have a good start. It will depend on the style of play you go for, but you probably won't know that until you start. 

I would say definitely go for the 80 clanrats and 60 monks. The Hellpit is popular in the current meta. You'll need an engineer too. 

Anything else would be personal preference, but I would say that 3 jezzail aren't enough, nor is a single ratling gun. 

Rat ogres pack a punch if you want a melee army, but a second cannon  or doom wheel could be fun too. 

The best thing about Skaven is our choice of units

Enjoy 😁

Edited March 15, 2020 by Cosmicsheep

[gronnelg]

Boosting warp lighting canons - I always assumed it was warlock engineer keyword that count. But it the app it seems to be the unit warlock engineer? 

[Coyote]

Who here has used / Uses the Soulscream Bridge frequently - even as an auto-include ?  

Please send me a PM I have a lot of questions but don’t want to hijack this thread for stuff we’ve all gone over.  

Thanks!

Also these/ this is my Skaven Soulscream  Bridge or SKAVENScreaming Bridge, WIP.