AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[erasercrumbs]

I own a couple of Plague Furnaces, but the first was preassembled. I'm about to construct a new one from the kit, but I have a burning question: is the Grey Seer on the bell suitable as a footslogging GS, or do his posture and bell perch make that impossible? Just checking before I plop down some cash for an old metal GS.

[Kirjava13]

1 hour ago, erasercrumbs said:

I own a couple of Plague Furnaces, but the first was preassembled. I'm about to construct a new one from the kit, but I have a burning question: is the Grey Seer on the bell suitable as a footslogging GS, or do his posture and bell perch make that impossible? Just checking before I plop down some cash for an old metal GS.

There's a plastic Grey Seer on foot too, you don't need to settle for metal!

[Skreech Verminking]

i just noticed that the crawler has 3 shots with damage 5😱😱.

that’s a lot if damage 1catapult can do, even without a rend.

@Ineffectual Clawlord Warpfire thrower weapon teams are a fantastic unit to grill those mighty dead-things and keep em dead.

although I wouldn’t spam them.

the max. Units of flamer i’ve been using in the last couple of tournaments were always 2.

they are exceptionally good, units and will either be targeted by shooting, keeping your basic and elite units save, or ignored, in which case they will burn most things to a crisp.

should you ever fight well a monster heavy army like griselgore, they surely won’t do much, but thanks to their cheap cost they can be effective objective grabbers in dire situations, or when you just want your other units up there in combat.

 

[gronnelg]

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

i just noticed that the crawler has 3 shots with damage 5😱😱.

that’s a lot if damage 1catapult can do, even without a rend.

Which can easily be buffed to 4 shots, and given rerolling 1s to hit. 
And then there's the bravery attack....

Terrifying presence:
"Substract 10 from the bravery  characteristic of @gronnelgfor each Mortek Crawler currently on the board."

[Brakkus]

So going to my local gaming group tonight and thought I'd take the following list out for a spin. Not sure what army I'll be playing, but wanted to switch up from the stormfiend/bridge combo I've tried the last few games. Thoughts welcome.

WarscrollBuilderList (2).pdf

[basement dweller]

17 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

The problems with pure Moulder are manifold, but quintessentially it is a slow melee army that does nothing special, has no allegiance abilities and few internal synergies. However, if people want to play with their mutated rats, who am I to judge?

  Reveal hidden contents

Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- Trait: Supreme Manipulator
Master Moulder (100)
- Artefact: Rabid Crown
40 x Giant Rats (200)
40 x Giant Rats (200)
40 x Giant Rats (200)
6 x Rat Ogors (300)
3 x Packmasters (60)
3 x Packmasters (60)
Hell Pit Abomination (240)
Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50

This is the Fleshmeld list that I would run if I was forced to. The key point is to have max. 2 drops in order to give the first turn away. Further, Cogs makes it more reasonable to actually reach the enemy. CP are absolutely essential, as the chance to bring back full packs is Moulders real appeal.

My advice is to ignore mono-clans; just take whatever units you like to run in a Masterclan list. Even from a roll-playing perspective, why would my supreme clan not hire someone else's disgusting subordinates to die in the stead of my disgusting subordinates?

  Reveal hidden contents

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Plague
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Master Moulder (100)
- Trait: Verminous Valour
- Artefact: Rabid Crown
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
6 x Rat Ogors (300)
10 x Wolf Rats (200)
5 x Wolf Rats (100)
Hell Pit Abomination (240)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

This would be my interpretation. It follows the wonderfully simple formula of: battleshock-immunity + Clanrats + replace usual hammers (ranged, monks) with clan X units.

Thanks for your perspective sir.  I took out my 1000 point list and can confirm some of your points:

1.  You need command points.  At 1000 with no CP battery i was always short.   Unless you roll well you are going to want more CP.

2.  You have no movement shenanigans without the gnawholes.  Giant rats are fast....but as you are likely running large blocks they are not very manuverable and a unit of 10 dies to a strong wind.  I enjoyed playing with them but you arent surprising anyone...you are trudging across the board.  The HPA will drive you bonkers with his 2d6 movement...it did and i plan to have 2 in 2000...

3.  Units of 40 giant rats are useful.  Take too much work for the enemy to kill for only 200 points of rats.  The 3 inch attack is nice and mpst of the unit gets to attack...not ghouls or monks type attacks....but can kill the right bad guy.

4.  You gotta protect your master(s).  Id be scared to run just 1 but could see the charm.  You need your buffs to hit and leadership...and the masters make that happen.

5. As the list is simple (i.e. simple army that runs across the table) it would not be great to use all the time...migjt become boring quickly.  I better get painting my clan rats so i take some other stuff.

6.  Have to dictate what models fights what to maximize your units.  Attack high AP units with your rats, use your HPA to bring down armoured units.  Keep your rat ogres alive to kill what scares you in the other army.  You have 5+ saves at best and no save for the rats...engage the wrong units and things disappear.  Like playing beasts of chaos, you wont win by just running into the opponents army.  Needs some finese and you dont have a lot of finese units....so some challenges with that.

For the record, i lost to ogres by victory points but killed more of his army then he killed mine.  Game was fun and giant rats swarming everywhere was enjoyable.  Moulder is not for the weak of heart....i failed all my bring unit back rolls and didnt have a command point when my ogres died.  If your not in a highly competitve environment, i think they will be fun enough and can hold their own.

Edited January 4, 2020 by basement dweller

[Chase]

What do you recommend for a x3 terrorgheist ghristlegore? Here's what I have

Verminlord (any flavor) 

2 bells, or 1 bell and 1 furnace

Thanquol

x2 bombardier/engineer

Grey Seer

Plague Priest

Clanrats x60

Monks x40

Fiends x9

Jezzails x9

Acolytes x30

WLC x2

Doomwheel

3 rattling 

Endless Spells

[Darkhan]

Since the stormfiends nerf, my skaven heart has broken into 1000 pieces😂 Nothing will ever be the same without our perfect unit of 9!
But I have a small hope, anyone tried running 12 jezzails? 

Made this list 2000 points on the dot:
Screaming bell 1x

Warlock engineer 2x

clanrats 40x

clanrats 20x

clanrats 20x

Jezzails 12x

Doomwheel 1x

Acolytes 25x

Endless spell: WLV.

[Gwendar]

11 hours ago, Darkhan said:

Since the stormfiends nerf, my skaven heart has broken into 1000 pieces😂 Nothing will ever be the same without our perfect unit of 9!
But I have a small hope, anyone tried running 12 jezzails? 

I've done it before but wasn't a big fan.. for me the magic number is 9.. not that they're bad in 12, but it can start to get unwieldy and take up lots of space. I still find plenty of merit in Fiends even if they've been reduced to 6.. they still put out plenty of damage for pretty much any occasion.

Of course, there still is a noticeable difference in power and you kind of have to split your eggs into 2-3 baskets now. That loss in points has definitely made me consider what to supplement them with.. and I've been leaning towards Jezzails and Acolytes myself. Currently I'm test-running 6 Fiends + 9 Jezzails with the 'standard' 80 Clanrats, but lately I've wanted to bump them to 100. I've furthered supplemented it by throwing WLV back in there and without the lack of Monks not needing to be Death Frenzied, I have the Bell cast out Skitterleap for the AW\Bombardier to get it in a favorable position.. worked well enough so far.

[Ineffectual Clawlord]

On 1/5/2020 at 5:36 AM, Chase said:

What do you recommend for a x3 terrorgheist ghristlegore? Here's what I have

 

All of the shooting archetypes (Fiends, Jezzails, close range) are possible here, every one bringing something unique to the table. It's a question of positioning and playstyle. The primary way people lose to Terrorgheists is by

a) deploying too aggressively. While deploying, keep the threat ranges in mind and ask your opponent. If he gives you 1st turn (which I would do against a Fiends list), don't rush forward, rather play a conservative game as you have the range advantage.

b) beware the double pile-in. The Gheist damage is of course unpredictable, but unless your entire group of Clanrats gets devoured, remove casualties so your opponent is in base contact with them.

c) not taking enough screens. This is pretty self explanatory; Gristlegore has for a long time been a great argument for bringing a lot of rats.

Have a unit screen the back board edge (wholly within 6", more than 9" away...) to prevent summoning and additional pressure. All you want to care about is shooting down Gheists. And of course: destroy them completely, cut of the head, burn the corpse etc. The maw is the weapon that inflicts damage, and it does not degrade. Plus they regenerate. So, don't get greedy and split your shots all over the place. Good hunting!

@basement dweller Unfortunately, the way the book is designed there is no advantage to running mono-clans. All you do is cut yourself off options and abilities. The only 'battleline-if' that is potentially worth it are Monks - and even they love a Clanrat-screen. Ogres are one of the opponents you can actually fight, unlike e.g. OBR.

@Skreech Verminking I do agree with you. Flamers are more versatile than they initially appear, due to the overload mechanic allowing them to do damage to elite cav, e.g. 6 piggies. Outside the Archaon-Varanguard-list, there are basically no lists where they will be entirely useless.

Recently I started running 3 Fiends again, in the ol' Flamer-Ratling-Flayer setup, and it works quite well for me. It's a true all rounder and provides more versatility than a second group of Monks.

Spoiler

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
Warlock Engineer (100)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
3 x Stormfiends (260)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Vermintide (40)

In a couple of test variations, e.g. Gutter Runners instead of Geminids. Deceiver instead of 2nd Bell etc.

 

[The Red King]

Okay friends, I've got a crazy idea (the only idea suitable for a Skaven) and I wanted to know if the list I'm planning is at least casually usable.

It's mostly based on what's available but I'm willing to be talked into changing the type of verminlord. I've considered dropping the bell and bringing a warpseer for Battleshock or even rearranging points to bring two verminlords because wow these guys are cheap.

Anyway list is simple. 

 

Skreech Verminking

Grey seer on bell

 Clawlord on Brood Horror ×2

 

Clan rats×40

Clan rats ×40

Stormvermin×40

 

Clawhorde batallion

Extra CP

 

Alternatively I can drop the extra CP and 20 stormfiends and bring 2 claw hordes with four min sized clanrats and two 10 man stormvermin squads. Same number of CP, one less drop and one more relic. Doesn't seem worth the loss of their horde bonuses though.

 

Thoughts on traits and artifacts? I was thinking Things-bane and Brutal Fury on one clawlord and Verminous Valour on the other. Then Master of Magic and maybe Aetherquartz brooch to keep those CP flowing or Skavenbrew to try to stack obscene numbers of attacks on the storms. 

 

Is this casually playable at least against even mildly competitive armies? I like it for being thematic looking and what I have available mostly.

 

 

[Darkhan]

This has probably been answered before. But here we go again.

For some reason I always ate a token before a cast roll (reason I do not remember). But reading the rules again, it does not say that you have to eat it at the start of the hero phase. Does this mean! That I can cast a spell with a regular warlock engineer, and if it fails, I can then decide to eat a token to reroll that spell?

Wording:

In the hero phase, pick 1 friendly CLANS SKRYRE WIZARD. You can re-roll casting, dispelling and unbinding rolls for that WIZARD until the end of that phase.

Also, attached a FAQ about modifiers happening after.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Darkhan
Extra info

[Skreech Verminking]

14 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

egular warlock engineer, and if it fails, I can then decide to eat a token to reroll that spell

I at least believe so.

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Darkhan said:

For some reason I always ate a token before a cast roll (reason I do not remember). But reading the rules again, it does not say that you have to eat it at the start of the hero phase. Does this mean! That I can cast a spell with a regular warlock engineer, and if it fails, I can then decide to eat a token to reroll that spell?

Yes, per the wording that's fine to do and generally how I treat it as well; no sense eating the Spark if I don't have to.

[Obeisance]

How do you guys think competitive Skaven is going to trend post the nerfs/changes we received? I'm interested to see the results from whatever the next big event is.

I'm just curious. I'm playing OBR at the moment anyway.

[Skreech Verminking]

36 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

1)How do you guys think competitive Skaven is going to trend post the nerfs/changes we received? I'm interested to see the results from whatever the next big event is.

2)I'm just curious. I'm playing OBR at the moment anyway.

1) probably kinda fine.

I am guessing our win percentage might go down to 50% but probably not by much more.

Even with the few debuffs and only points increases Our Faction can still be the proud and verminus hordes in the top places.

sure loosing the 9Stormfiends might be painful, but in the end it opens up new ways to play them in total.

2)how could you betray us-us! An there we were thinking we could make you our next right claw!😜

Edited January 10, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Darkhan]

5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

sure loosing the 9Stormfiends might be painful, but in the end it opens up new ways to play them in total.

This is so true. But it opened up a build I'm looking forward to test. Took @Gwendar advice and cooked out a list with:

Bell, 2x engineer, 2x40  1x20 clan, 9 jezzails, 6 stormfiends, WLV. 

The 9 jezzails should more than enough make up for the 3 stormfiends loss;p

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

This is so true. But it opened up a build I'm looking forward to test. Took @Gwendar advice and cooked out a list with:

Bell, 2x engineer, 2x40  1x20 clan, 9 jezzails, 6 stormfiends, WLV. 

The 9 jezzails should more than enough make up for the 3 stormfiends loss;p

Yeah my list changed as well a bit.

I went from using 3fiends per game to 6.

and my list has changed dramatically in looks:

I am basically using a unit of 40 clanrats, 1x20clanrats, 40Stormvermins, 40plague monks, 6fiends, a bombardier and a Screaming bell.

As usually I’m going fir the horde style of play.

[Darkhan]

Someone posted a hilarious list on FB, which looks superbly fun, and LEEROY to the core.

Deceiver (with gnawbomb + shadowmaster),  clawlord (on horror), 1x engineer, 3x20 clan, 1x hell pit, 2x40 plague monks, 2x warpgrinder. Cogs.

Make the engineer cast cogs, for reroll. Teleport the deceiver ahead, bomb a terrain with the gnawbomb, pop out hell pit or clawlord, and pop up the 2x40 plague monks wherever and LEEROY it out.

With cogs, monk charge 6+, deceiver 4+, hell pit or the lord 7+. 

I mean, this sounds so kamikaze epic😂

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Someone posted a hilarious list on FB, which looks superbly fun, and LEEROY to the core.

Deceiver (with gnawbomb + shadowmaster),  clawlord (on horror), 1x engineer, 3x20 clan, 1x hell pit, 2x40 plague monks, 2x warpgrinder. Cogs.

Make the engineer cast cogs, for reroll. Teleport the deceiver ahead, bomb a terrain with the gnawbomb, pop out hell pit or clawlord, and pop up the 2x40 plague monks wherever and LEEROY it out.

With cogs, monk charge 6+, deceiver 4+, hell pit or the lord 7+. 

I mean, this sounds so kamikaze epic😂

Yeah well you haven’t heard of the Doom brigade!

i’t’s basically 3Doomwheels, racing towards the enemy lines and sniping out heroes with the buffs of a skryre hero.

the sad part your doomwheels are probably dead after they hit combat😂

[Darkhan]

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah well you haven’t heard of the Doom brigade!

i’t’s basically 3Doomwheels, racing towards the enemy lines and sniping out heroes with the buffs of a skryre hero.

the sad part your doomwheels are probably dead after they hit combat😂

Haha! I always wanted to try 3 wheels! Only have 1, and I hated painting it😂
Do you toss out all the 3 at the same time, or do you fully buff one up T1, send it away, and do the same thing T2 with the second one?;p And so forth.

[Obeisance]

47 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

1) probably kinda fine.

I am guessing our win percentage might go down to 50% but probably not by much more.

Even with the few debuffs and only points increases Our Faction can still be the proud and verminus hordes in the top places.

sure loosing the 9Stormfiends might be painful, but in the end it opens up new ways to play them in total.

2)how could you betray us-us! An there we were thinking we could make you our next right claw!😜

Eh, I'm not thinking win percentage, I'm just thinking about list construction change.

As for the "I'm playing OBR" comment, that was me justifying the question. I didn't want to seem like I'm fishing for winning army lists.

In reality, I've spent the last couple months painting OBR. Tournament with them this weekend. I suspect I'll end up putting them down and going back to Skaven because Skaven are good in every phase, not just combat.

[Skreech Verminking]

13 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Haha! I always wanted to try 3 wheels! Only have 1, and I hated painting it😂
Do you toss out all the 3 at the same time, or do you fully buff one up T1, send it away, and do the same thing T2 with the second one?;p And so forth.

Depends, in what kind of mood I am.

sometimes i’ll just send all of them to their doom, and in other times I have a caring feeling for those poor, poor warlocks

5 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Eh, I'm not thinking win percentage, I'm just thinking about list construction change.

As for the "I'm playing OBR" comment, that was me justifying the question. I didn't want to seem like I'm fishing for winning army lists.

Nah I wasn’t going towards that.

it was more, well meant as a joke.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Darkhan said:

This is so true. But it opened up a build I'm looking forward to test. Took @Gwendar advice and cooked out a list with:

Bell, 2x engineer, 2x40  1x20 clan, 9 jezzails, 6 stormfiends, WLV. 

The 9 jezzails should more than enough make up for the 3 stormfiends loss;p

Should be enough.. typically you will find your target priorities are going to be different with the Jezzails than with the Fiends. I'm still up in the air about including Bridge, but I'm leaning more towards no just because we've lost some resiliency (wound count) from those 3 Fiends.. and Bridge often puts you into a precarious position if your goal is to get both the Ratling Cannons and the Windlaunchers in range of 2 separate targets. Currently I'm working out what I want to play this weekend.. probably OBR but for our monthly meetup (2-3 games) I will likely go with the above w/ Bridge.

Of course.. I'm also still inclined to test out the old 6-Fiends, 40 Monks route but.. I'm not particularly hopeful with that one.. or maybe I'm just tired of using Monks.

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

how could you betray us-us! An there we were thinking we could make you our next right claw!😜

Funnily enough I joined the OBR ranks too and soon Tzeentch. All sorts of betrayal going on here but... that's kind of the Skaven way, isn't it? 😉

[Skreech Verminking]

3 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

 

Funnily enough I joined the OBR ranks too and soon Tzeentch. All sorts of betrayal going on here but... that's kind of the Skaven way, isn't it? 😉

Yeah, exactly why I have joined the ranks of the Gloomspite gitz for now.