AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Cauthon]

Pretty sure the great endrinworks are unique and I don’t believe you can have duplicates. 

 

Happy to be wrong. 

[Scar]

1 minute ago, Cauthon said:

Pretty sure the great endrinworks are unique and I don’t believe you can have duplicates. 

 

Happy to be wrong. 

Correct haha changed it

[Boar]

15 hours ago, Causalis said:

About Gloomspite Gitz:

I also play the sneaky Gitz and I can see them be a tough opponent for us. My usual lists have 2x40 Stabbas, 2x10 Bounderz and the Boss on Mangler Squig. Those 80 wounds worth of Stabbas have a 5+ save, get a +1 save against shooting for their Icon and my Madcap Shaman can cast his warscroll spell to give a unit -1 to being hit with shooting. That means 40 wounds with a 4+ save and a -1 to being hit, while being battleshock immune if within 12" of the shrine. I have more than enough bodies to zone my whole tableside so no Ironclad could drop behind my lines. And I can just swarm the table, making it really hard for the KO to get to the objectives. Also Squigs count als flying so they hinder the disengage abilities and a Mangler Boss on the charge with his +1 to-wound ability will kill an Ironclad in one round. 

I would advice to focus down the Gloomspite heroes first and try to deny the Bounderz their charge. If they don't charge they don't deal MWs and their lances will only wound on 4+. And try to kill the Mangler ASAP. Taking control of objectives will still be hard. I would probably ignore one of the big Stabba blobs and focus down the other one. Hope this helps, fellow Admirals.

So far I played 3 battles with new KO, all of them on 1250 pts vs Gloomspite, and hard getting to objectives is definetly true. Grots are annoying, but can can only put -1 to hit on one unit, so there is that (and 1/6 times spell will fail).

The thing about Mangler is wrong though, he can one shot ironclad on charge but it would be relatively rare occurence (slightly less than 1/6). And if Ironclad rerolls saves from aether gold it would be very lucky Mangler that would do that (1% chance). Artifact on boss could certainly improve that chances though.

Units of bounderz with their mortals on charge could prove to be more dangerous, and perhaps should be dealt with first.

[Ser_namron]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I've said this since Endless Spells were announced, but I'd love if all the Dawi factions received a unique, Runic system in the same vein as what Prayers are for non-magical factions. Hell, some of the more basic ones could even be shared among the <Duradin> factions with each spin-off getting it's unique spin. 

Ya i 100% agree. Theres plenty of room to play with the idea, but GW seems to have 0 interest in doing that. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind taking out an entire phase for a faction and if it comes down to ANYTHING but " duradin dont magics" id be surprised. 

 

31 minutes ago, Boar said:

I would advice to focus down the Gloomspite heroes first and try to deny the Bounderz their charge. If they don't charge they don't deal MWs and their lances will only wound on 4+. And try to kill the Mangler ASAP. Taking control of objectives will still be hard. I would probably ignore one of the big Stabba blobs and focus down the other one. Hope this helps, fellow Admirals.

Thanks for the advice, its actually  a new army in our group so im still learning about its potential as well. So far the bounderz have definitely been the most lethal force outside the boss on mangler. I think i really need to play more defensively, but they have some real insane movement on top of run and charge. The navigator's aetherstorm is amazing against the manglers though, i was even thinking about messing with the artifact so its a 2+ instead of 3+.  The drill cannons on gunhaulers can just take out alot of his heroes even with -1/2 to hit. The other problem like you said was that theirs plenty of bodies for Gitz to do area denial on their board, making flanking or deepstriking a bit tough. Add in hand of gork threatening OUR backlines it gets a bit sketchy moving the ship when you might get double turned. 

In the 2 games i played i focused manglers ( he brought 2, one with the hero on top one without) and then bounders when possible. So im on the right track it sounds like. The manglers are pretty beefy and hit hard as ****** though.  And if you cant finish them off they can become jut as deadly as a full bracket!

[Forrix]

Got a game in against KO with my Tempest Eye last night for some dwarf on dwarf action. Wasn't a super serious game and both of us were getting our feet wet with our armies but thought I'd share my initial thoughts as in short, KO was much stronger than I thought they would be though I wouldn't call them high tier still. Again, these are hot takes from a single game so something to think about but I wouldn't read into it too much. Looking forward to playing with/against more.

1.) Aethergold really matters. He was running the skyport with extra aethergold and had a command trait to get more (sorry, at work and can't remember what these are called). Using it at the right time could make a unit near impossible to kill or really up the damage. Once per phase use does limit it but with good positioning and target prioritizing but its still really good and didn't feel like he ran out of it super quick (though its not OBR, aethergold does need to managed).

2.) The double turn is an even bigger deal with KO. He got the Battleround 1 to 2 double turn and brutalized me pretty bad with it. Killed my Hurricanum, Runelord, a battlemage, Anointed on Frost Phoenix (this guy ate up his entire 1st turn of shooting), and 10+ Irondrakes (who were -1 to hit) with it. The ability to do significant damage without reprisal and direct that damage at support elements is big deal.

3.) Bodies are definitely something to think about. Ultimately, I eeked out a victory in our game despite him having a clear advantage in firepower simply by piling bodies onto objectives. I don't think this one is a surprise to anyone but KO does seem to struggle in the objective game.

4.) Thunders are kinda useless. We both had a unit of 5 and mine didn't get in range of anything until turn 4 (12 inch range sucks) and did jack with their shooting when they did. His were shooting at my Longbeards and Irondrakes and also did almost zilch in terms of damage. We were both running the special weapon guys. I feel like all rifles is definitely the way to go.

5.) The Ironclad is scarier than I thought. It did the bulk of the shooting damage and once all my support characters were dead (i.e. turn 2) it was pretty much impossible to kill, especially with Edrinriggers available to heal it and aethergold to reroll saves if I put anything big into it.

6.) Following up on previous points, KO felt very durable not just because of aethergold and better saves but since they easily took out my support characters my synergies got wrecked and my damage tanked.

[Asm00]

Hi all,

Finally got a game in with the new KO.

 

2000pts vs Stormcast Eternals.

He played deepstriking ballista with Lord Ordinator and a mix of crossbows/archers, a 10 man unit of sequitors, Evocators, General on Gryph charger.

My list was 1 Grundstock Escort Wing with Ironclad, 10 thunderers and 2 Gunhaulers, 1 frigate with 10 arkanauts, an admiral, an endrinmaster and a khemist with spell in a bottle (warp lightning vortex).

Scenario was The Better Part of Valor, so a big focus on seizing objectives and keeping them.

 

The game ended on turn 3 with a major victory for KOs.

Having 3 objectives to protect on each side is a huge advantage for KOs, who force the ennemy to stay near their objectives for fear of your jumping ships seizing them immediately.

As far as firepower goes, I thought we would be somewhat on the soft side, but being able to bring half your army or more to bear on a single flank more than makes up for that. First turn I wiped out the 10 sequitor unit and 5 judicators and things just went downhill from there.

He was basically forced to burn his three objectives on his second turn where I was able to keep mine alive to burn on turn 3.

Melee is clearly a weakness, but as long as you still have an aether gold for rerolling saves it's not so bad.

[Kramer]

3 hours ago, Eevika said:

Until someone just wraps your ironclad kills it in one hit and you lose everything inside it. Losing half your army in one turn of enemy combat. 

Come on. Then also respond to the rest of his criticisms.  

For what it's worth in the conversation about magic or no. 
I personally feel the more unique and different every army plays the better. So play dwarves no magic but.... the options that are in there should still make it a fun game. And KO seems to have that. 
In the same manner a 'general' army should be special by being a jack of all trades, imo. 

 

[Kramer]

double post

Edited January 15, 2020 by Kramer

[Kramer]

triple post.... wait for it

Edited January 15, 2020 by Kramer

[Kramer]

quadruble post. I know my (internet) failure is impressive 🙈

Edited January 15, 2020 by Kramer

[Fert]

7 hours ago, SireScott said:

Hi all

Quick rules question if you are playing iron sky squadron can your arkanaughts deploy within 9 of the enemy after their frigate flies high? I thought they couldn't but I cant see a rule stopping this

 

The answer is this, taken from the Flying Transport rule off the frigate;

"Units cannot join or leave this model’s garrison if it has made a move or flown high in the same phase (they can join or leave before it does so)."

The Iron Sky Attack Squadron only overrides the "move" portion of this rule.  So, they can't get out following a Fly High,

Hope this helps!  It is still really strong tbh... especially with Zilfin's rules, you probably don't even need a fly high to get close.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Fert

[snipersyn]

After some Tome studying, I drafted the following list:

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

- Sky Port: Barak Zilfin

 

Kharadron Code

- Artycle: Master The Skies

- Amendment: Don't Argue With the Wind

- Footnote: There's Always a Breeze If You Look For It

 

Leaders

Arkanaut Admiral (140)

- General

- Trait: Master Commander

- Artefact: Staff of Ocular Optimisation

Arkanaut Admiral (140)

Arkanaut Admiral (140)

Bjorgen Thundrik (140)

 

Battleline

10 x Arkanaut Company (90)

- 1x Skypikes

- 1x Light Skyhooks

- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

10 x Arkanaut Company (90)

- 1x Skypikes

- 1x Light Skyhooks

- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

10 x Arkanaut Company (90)

- 1x Skypikes

- 1x Light Skyhooks

- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

Arkanaut Frigate (250)

- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon

- Great Endrinworks: Malefic Skymines

Arkanaut Frigate (250)

 

Units

4 x Thundrik's Profiteers (0)

 

Behemoths

Arkanaut Ironclad (510)

- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon

- Great Endrinworks: Zonbarcorp 'Dealbreaker' Battle Ram

 

Battalions

Iron Sky Attack Squadron (120)

 

Total: 1960 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 103

 

Rationale:

Each Skyvessel is garrisoned by a 10 man Arkanaut Company and an Arkanaut Admiral, except the Ironclad which also garrisons the Profiteers. This stands as 11, 11 (Frigates) and 15 marines (Ironclad) which maintains each Skyvessel's Fly High ability. The Iron Sky Attach Squadron Battalion allows the Frigates to unload their Company payload either before or after moving which can lead to overwhelming charge and combat attacks or taking objectives. All in all, the list is designed for firepower first and KO your opponent before the end of the match.

Let me know what you fellows think!

[Sesom]

3 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Ya i 100% agree. Theres plenty of room to play with the idea, but GW seems to have 0 interest in doing that. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind taking out an entire phase for a faction and if it comes down to ANYTHING but " duradin dont magics" id be surprised. 

I mean, they got rid of the battleshock phase for OBR, isn't this kind of the same thing? 🙃

[willange]

My battletome hasn't arrived yet, so I'm unclear.  Can Marines start the game deployed in the Frigates and Ironclads, or do they have to enter in the first movement phase? 

Also, the marines can enter the transport and THEN you move the transport, right?  They just couldn't leave that same phase.

[Cauthon]

14 minutes ago, snipersyn said:

After some Tome studying, I drafted the following list:

Rationale:

Each Skyvessel is garrisoned by a 10 man Arkanaut Company and an Arkanaut Admiral, except the Ironclad which also garrisons the Profiteers. This stands as 11, 11 (Frigates) and 15 marines (Ironclad) which maintains each Skyvessel's Fly High ability. The Iron Sky Attach Squadron Battalion allows the Frigates to unload their Company payload either before or after moving which can lead to overwhelming charge and combat attacks or taking objectives. All in all, the list is designed for firepower first and KO your opponent before the end of the match.

Let me know what you fellows think!

Sadly, frigates are overburdened by having 11+ models embarked. Your admirals in the frigates are killing your mobility. No fly high and half movement. 

 

Kind of kills your list imo

[snipersyn]

3 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Sadly, frigates are overburdened by having 11+ models embarked. Your admirals in the frigates are killing your mobility. No fly high and half movement. 

 

Kind of kills your list imo

Damn now, you're right!

Time to re-tool!

[cofaxest]

7 minutes ago, willange said:

My battletome hasn't arrived yet, so I'm unclear.  Can Marines start the game deployed in the Frigates and Ironclads, or do they have to enter in the first movement phase? 

Also, the marines can enter the transport and THEN you move the transport, right?  They just couldn't leave that same phase.

Yes, you can. But probably each unit you put inside your ship will be separate deploy.

[cofaxest]

If I charge with the ship, does that mean I charge with the unit inside it?

[Ser_namron]

29 minutes ago, Sesom said:

I mean, they got rid of the battleshock phase for OBR, isn't this kind of the same thing? 🙃

Im terrible at picking up sarcasm in text, so im just going to assume this was sarcastic lol. 

If it wasnt .....then no its not nearly the same haha. 

[Cauthon]

15 minutes ago, snipersyn said:

Damn now, you're right!

Time to re-tool!

Also, not to be negative but.... I don’t know that I’d call arkos charging out of a boat “overwhelming”. I’d call it lackluster, if I’m being nice 😃

 

[Asamu]

8 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Which lists? Most Hallowheart armies only have 1 or 2 shooting units at best. And most of them have to stand still to get most out of their abilities. 
The Blood and Glory winner only had a unit of crossbows and one unit of handgunners. 

Magic outside of Hallowheart is much weaker. Doing both is hard for CoS. 

30 crossbows can put out ~41.7 damage when buffed (to 2+/2+ re-rolling 1s to wound).

30 handguns can put out ~20.8 damage at rend -1 when buffed (to 2+/2+).

20 Iron Drakes can put out ~25.9 damage at rend -2 on 2+/3+ re-rolling 1s to wound.

Those buffs are easy to get for any of those units, even in a hallowheart list. They can do something like this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Runelord (90)
- General
- Trait: Veteran of the Blazing Crusade
Runelord (90)
- Trait: Veteran of the Blazing Crusade
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
Battlemage (90)
Battlemage (90)
Sorceress (90)
20 x Longbeards (220)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Irondrakes (450)
20 x Irondrakes (300)
Whitefire Retinue (140)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106

~64.8 damage with shooting at rend -2 per turn. with 16" range.
The unit of 30 can be buffed to a 2+ to wound with Ignite weapons, which raises that damage to ~74.5 at rend -2.

Most lists run crossbows/handguns, and could run a Freeguild general to pump those to 2+/2+ guaranteed. It's a bit worse vs high saves. Handguns have the benefit of their stand and shoot rule, which could be a big deal vs close combat armies. Crossbows have a longer range of 24", so have more target options.

I don't think KO can match that kind of firepower tbh. It can alpha strike reliably, and looks good at contesting far away objectives, but I find it hard to see how it could match up to CoS in terms of firepower.

Curious how people are playing Aethergold atm. It says "you can pick a triumph it is eligible to use and immediately apply its effect". Does that mean you have to have an available triumph (which requires your list to be less points than the opponents)? Or can you just pick any of the 6 from the list and use it even if your list was more points?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Asamu

[Cauthon]

Just curious. 

 

Does an an ironclad with 15 thunderers in it count as 2 units or 4 for the purposes of (not) allying in KO into a cos army?

[Gecktron]

14 minutes ago, Asamu said:

30 crossbows can put out ~50 damage when buffed (to 2+/2+ re-rolling 1s to wound).

30 handguns can put out ~24 damage at rend -1 when buffed (to 2+/2+ re-rolling 1s to wound).

20 Iron Drakes can put out ~26 damage at rend -2 on 2+/3+ re-rolling 1s to wound.

Those buffs are easy to get for any of those units, even in a hallowheart list. They can do something like this:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Runelord (90)
- General
- Trait: Veteran of the Blazing Crusade
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
Battlemage (90)
Battlemage (90)
Sorceress (90)
Freeguild General (100) (Probably not worth running if also using iron drakes; just put it in to show that it could be done)
10 x Longbeards (110)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
20 x Irondrakes (300)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
Whitefire Retinue (140)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 1730 / 2000 - still 270 points floating to do things with
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96

Teleports around the board while pumping out 50-100 damage with shooting with rend up to -2

Could Drop the crossbows and general for 30 more iron drakes, another rune lord, and 10 more longbeards, which would put out ~65 damage at rend -2 per turn.

 

Where does the re-rolling one to wound come from?

[Asamu]

3 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Where does the re-rolling one to wound come from?

For Iron drakes, it comes from longbeards. Handguns/Crossbows can't get it. Thought there was a spell or artefact that gave it initially, but there isn't. Hadn't looked at that stuff in a while.

[Gecktron]

1 hour ago, Asamu said:

For Iron drakes, it comes from longbeards. Handguns/Crossbows can't get it. Thought there was a spell or artefact that gave it initially, but there isn't. Hadn't looked at that stuff in a while.

I play Hammerhal. So I was asking because I would have liked to have that for my units too, haha

Edited January 15, 2020 by Gecktron