AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Kelsicle]

23 hours ago, PJetski said:

30 Vulkites in Hunters of the Heartland with Mystic Shield, AOD, and a 5+ Ward from Battlesmith are a 3+ Save ignoring Rend-1 (cant be Roared) and 90 effective wounds

They also rally back on a 4+

Pretty hard to shift that

@PJetski What do you mean when you say 'Effective wounds' as opposed to just wounds?

[Voltek]

10 minutes ago, Kelsicle said:

@PJetski What do you mean when you say 'Effective wounds' as opposed to just wounds?

I think he means 60 Wounds plus the fact that one third statistically will be saved by the 5+ after save making it effectively 90 damage that the enemy unit must do after armor saves to wipe the unit.

[madmac]

32 minutes ago, Voltek said:

I think he means 60 Wounds plus the fact that one third statistically will be saved by the 5+ after save making it effectively 90 damage that the enemy unit must do after armor saves to wipe the unit.

You're paying like 650 points for 30 shield Vulkites and a battlesmith mind you, and getting effectively zero damage out of it. I would only hope it would at least be able to hold for one turn for all that + a once per battle ability, a spell(?) and a CP.

Edited March 1, 2022 by madmac

[Voltek]

5 minutes ago, madmac said:

You're paying like 650 points for 30 shield Vulkites and a battlesmith mind you, and getting effectively zero damage out of it. I would only hope it would at least be able to hold for one turn for all that + a once per battle ability, a spell(?) and a CP.

Oh I agree I'm not sure it's effectiveness either in fact I think the new Fyreslayers are looking to be weaker overall as a book then they currently are and in addition the only things that seem like they will be okish are the Hearthguard Berzerkers still. Which is sad cause I have an entire army of the little dwarves.

 

I am hoping there is still some good stuff we don't know about.

[madmac]

Just now, Voltek said:

Oh I agree I'm not sure it's effectiveness either in fact I think the new Fyreslayers are looking to be weaker overall as a book then they currently are and in addition the only things that seem like they will be okish are the Hearthguard Berzerkers still. Which is sad cause I have an entire army of the little dwarves.

 

I am hoping there is still some good stuff we don't know about.

Yeah at this point I'm left with hoping there's some janky combo that works, maybe the new subfactions have some juice or droths or whatever. I'm not expecting it'll be a strong tome overall, just judging from how many different ways you can give a unit a temporary 6++, presented as a huge defensive buff and not a pity substitute.

[Baron Klatz]

Leaker with the tome noted this:

”Grimwrath got a full rules section full of oath just for them.

Runemaster know all prayers and give cp so it grant lots of adaptability”

 

[Doko]

So we can have one use for the flamekeeper finnally(as proxy of runemaster)

[Baron Klatz]

Unless you plan to spam Flamekeepers and run them with a Battlesmith so you can multiple the ur-gold effects and recover the losses. That seems to be the game plan with most lists wanting to run him.

[Doko]

After all the reveals i think i wont use vulkites,battlesmith neither flamekeepers.

I really dont see any use for new battlesmith,a buff of ward6 for a army that have ward6 in entire army for two turns(forge and rune) and his best unit have a 4++........so he could be great for other armys but for fyreslayers he is useless and dont makes sense,seems the designers dont have any idea about the army to change his +1 save to ward6 when we wont can use it

Only hearthguards,some runemaster and maybe some magmadroth to try get hearthguard wholy within 9" seems playable.

 

Spend half list in vulkites,flamekepers and battlesmith to get the flamekepers buffs rolling sems a waste of points to me.

I hope grimwraths oaths be ok(i have 0 hope after all we know so far) because i love the model

Edited March 2, 2022 by Doko

[Fellman]

Awesom!

[Doko]

Again as EVERY single preview a huge nerf.

Old was for every turn,new only enemh turn

Old was every situation,new only if enemy have charged

Old hadnt limits in number of use,new only one time per game per unit

 

So far 3 nerfs for the same old hability and 0 buffs......in the style of every new leak of the book

 

I guess next preview gonna show prayers nerfed to wholy within 2" and cast with a 6. Oh and throwing axes cant be used in melle and changed to 6hit and 6 wound......not many more things that can be nerfed at this point

Edited March 2, 2022 by Doko

[Kokoshi]

7 minutes ago, Doko said:

Again as EVERY single preview a huge nerf.

Old was for every turn,new only enemh turn

Old was every situation,new only if enemy have charged

Old hadnt limits in number of use,new only one time per game per unit

 

So far 3 nerfs for the same old hability and 0 buffs......in the style of every new leak of the book

Old was tied to a subfaction that would have been fore sure streamlined and lost its command ability.

New is universal and benefits to every Fyreslayers army (excepted full Magmadroth listes), boosting the defensive playstyle of the army. You can fight first, fight when you die, and be easily rallied.

[Doko]

Yes old was tied to hemdard,but when have 4 lodges and one is magmadroths that cant use this cp,and other is for heroes that cant use this cp also.....

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Doko

[madmac]

2 minutes ago, Kokoshi said:

Old was tied to a subfaction that would have been fore sure streamlined and lost its command ability.

New is universal and benefits to every Fyreslayers army (excepted full Magmadroth listes), boosting the defensive playstyle of the army. You can fight first, fight when you die, and be easily rallied.

Old ability was tied to the only subfaction people realistically played, nerfing it this much is not a buff over how Fyreslayers play right now in practice.

What other subfaction is taking heavy advantage of this anyway? Not Lofnir, with their Magmadroth focus. Not Volstarg, with their focus on aggressive charging, or Greyfyrd, which in a fantasy world where anyone played Greyfyrd was focused on hero attacks.

[Baron Klatz]

I don’t think it has to be “heavy advantage” so much as the other Lodges benefiting from yet more options they can pull on in a heated battle. Like a Lofnir lodge that saves some room for some infantry now has a low investment tough fighting force that can easily hold up enemy monster killers.

We’ll see how it all adds up when the full rules are out. So far it does feel like Maggotkin where the sum is better than the smaller parts for a fun mid-tier army.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Doko]

Yes so far seems the most fun and playable list so far,lofnir with 3 magmadroths,runemaster and hearthguards.

I hope grimwraths get some love....

[Voltek]

I wonder if we will get new subfactions I feel like all the armies that have 4 or less deserve a few more.

[flamingwalnut]

What are the chances that the nerfed warscrolls in Fury of the Deep just aren't the current ones? We have seen no warscrolls in the previews and I SWEAR they have done this before: release weird warscroll changes in a box then immediately change them for a book.

Just playing the optimist. DEFINITELY eager to read a full preview come Saturday.

[Baron Klatz]

I think it’s pretty safe to say by now those are the official new warscrolls. I couldn’t imagine of all the little leaks the leakers give that wouldn’t be the first big hint since that’s what started the Fyreslayer players doom and gloom.

1 hour ago, Voltek said:

I wonder if we will get new subfactions I feel like all the armies that have 4 or less deserve a few more.

I’m hoping though leakers have commented on Lofnir with “this is one of the 4 sub-factions in the book” so seems we’re still two short for now from the average 6 sub-factions.

Would love a Baeldrag Lodge set on the wandering mountains of Ghyran. 
https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wandering_Mountains

With aggressive attacks, death & resurrection being big on the new Fyreslayer play-style a Ghyran Lodge would’ve fit by buffing up heals and maybe an extra ambush trait since they’re both experienced against Skaven and build in mobile mountains. 

[Malakithe]

Maybe with only 4 sub-factions that means there will be more base rules and allegiance stuff...maybe

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Maybe with only 4 sub-factions that means there will be more base rules and allegiance stuff...maybe

I'm with you. Currently, all other 3.0 battletomes have 3+ allegiance abilities. 2.0 Fyreslayers have just one (Ur-Gold runes).

[Svalack]

I saw somewhere on this forum that grimwrath oaths are now in the allegiance abilities instead of warscroll, maybe didn't have any new ideas and had to fill the pages? Plus you've got this 'new' command and the heroic action. That might be all.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I’m still cautiously optimistic. Arguably the smallest faction in the game is already getting it’s 3rd battle tome. GW wouldn’t keep updating this frequently for what is also believed to be one of the lowest sellers if they themselves weren’t unsatisfied and didn’t also think that they had ideas to improve Fyreslayers.

[Baron Klatz]

12 hours ago, Svalack said:

I saw somewhere on this forum that grimwrath oaths are now in the allegiance abilities instead of warscroll, maybe didn't have any new ideas and had to fill the pages?

I mean that just lines up with the 3.0 design philosophy of streamlined warscrolls so they have way less text and fewer abilities like how unique command abilities are mostly gone.

With how large that list of oaths were it was either gonna be that or the oaths watered down to like 3 quick options(halving the size from 6) to cut down on the warscroll.

 

On another note leaker noted a few more things:

”All heroes are improved
Droth gainned a couple mouth attacks
Runefather is strong
Grimwrath zerker are really interesting
Runefather is awesome if you want you can do a once per game 20 attacks 2+ 2+ rend -3 damage 3 (need a bit little setup but it's really easy and only roll needed is 2+ with rr and if you miss it you are 2+ 3+) ...
6 Battle tactics and 5 of them are doable are dependant on the board !

I'll say again it and maybe i am wrong because not everyone can play games like i do (Flex). And maybe it's going to be too hard on some players. And i am not saying it's your case But the battletome is fine, maybe units are a bit too expensive but that can be fixed in a GHB”

[Voltek]

Where is everyone seeing these leaks etc?