AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[RedemptionUK]

Cheers for the clarification, I'll take this to my friend who has been disputing this interaction and report back!

 

Edit: Well now I've been told not to be a **** and abuse edge case abilities 😂

 

I just hope they clear this interaction properly in the 3.0 tome to avoid this dispute.

Edited July 6, 2021 by RedemptionUK

[Champasaur]

I personally believe the rules are quite clear in this case (to be fair I play a decent amount of Magic: The Gathering); however, a rules clarification would be very nice to ease our nitpicking souls.

As for your friend.. listen Stormcast need cool stuff don't take this away from us

[RedemptionUK]

My final question would be the interaction with the slay general battle tactics. If you pull the trick on your general but at the end of the turn you have your general left alive on 1 wound, they would still score the battle tactic and grand strat (providing their general is alive at the end of the game) because your general has been slain?

Edit: spelling

Edited July 6, 2021 by RedemptionUK
Spelling

[Andalf]

This is how we play it, I can’t see this as necessarily ‘edge-case’ rule exploitation.  Cycle of the Storm has been around since the start of AoS2 and the proc to get that many rolls from Blazing Glory requires a pretty large point investment, particular arrangement on the table, and your opponent doesn’t Have to swing and take the hits...  does he play any other games and always pick the underdog faction?  I’d say this looks intentional and with Yndrasta getting super cycle of the Storm I’m hoping it sticks around.

[RedemptionUK]

1 hour ago, Andalf said:

This is how we play it, I can’t see this as necessarily ‘edge-case’ rule exploitation.  Cycle of the Storm has been around since the start of AoS2 and the proc to get that many rolls from Blazing Glory requires a pretty large point investment, particular arrangement on the table, and your opponent doesn’t Have to swing and take the hits...  does he play any other games and always pick the underdog faction?  I’d say this looks intentional and with Yndrasta getting super cycle of the Storm I’m hoping it sticks around.

Plays Khorne, Slaanesh and more recently OBR. He does have a SCE army so he was being more of a devil's advocate and said he personally wouldn't play the rule that you could repeat proc from Cycle of the Storm potentially multiple times.

[PJetski]

3 hours ago, Andalf said:

This is how we play it, I can’t see this as necessarily ‘edge-case’ rule exploitation.  Cycle of the Storm has been around since the start of AoS2 and the proc to get that many rolls from Blazing Glory requires a pretty large point investment, particular arrangement on the table, and your opponent doesn’t Have to swing and take the hits...  does he play any other games and always pick the underdog faction?  I’d say this looks intentional and with Yndrasta getting super cycle of the Storm I’m hoping it sticks around.

The bolded statement is not true. If a unit is within 3" of an enemy (or if it charged) then it is eligible to fight, and as per 12.1 "You cannot pass if there is a friendly unit that is eligible to fight".

You don't have to make a pile-in move, but as per 12.3 you must make attacks in combat. Unlike missile weapons, if a unit fights with melee weapons it must attack with all of its melee weapons.

[Andalf]

9 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The bolded statement is not true. If a unit is within 3" of an enemy (or if it charged) then it is eligible to fight, and as per 12.1 "You cannot pass if there is a friendly unit that is eligible to fight".

You don't have to make a pile-in move, but as per 12.3 you must make attacks in combat. Unlike missile weapons, if a unit fights with melee weapons it must attack with all of its melee weapons.

Noted, thank you.  It’s a fun mechanic, I think, like really Fun, IMHO.  All of the rules jankery surrounding it only makes it a bit better in some cases, worse in others; it still largely works this way and I haven’t seen it take over the game yet.  I have seen a Sequitor’s Blazing Glory change one game though so there is that....

  I wish people could allow that whole part of the game more often though; the whole “it is supposed to be Fun thing.”  Not consistently boiling it down to who’s a whiter Knight for playing the game with a hand tied behind their back or making plays out to be gamey if it’s not their cup of tea.  Just sayin’.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Andalf

[Nizrah]

40 minutes ago, Andalf said:

 

  I wish people could allow that whole part of the game more often though; the whole “it is supposed to be Fun thing.”  Not consistently boiling it down to who’s a whiter Knight for playing the game with a hand tied behind their back or making plays out to be gamey if it’s not their cup of tea.  Just sayin’.

Why don't you play tournaments then? 

[Andalf]

I play everything, it’s just a trend I’ve noticed lately where it feels like the ‘hot-take’ reviews = gospel around here.

I’d like to add the reason is that it makes the game feel like you can never win against these kinds of players.  I’ve heard the analogy on this forum recently.  Basically, if you win using something that’s considered good that other people use you’re a beardy-git net-lister no matter how obvious that play is.  If you try a hard combo that’s a bit left field but pays serious dividends in game then you’re playing edge case rules interactions that aren’t intended because they know the game-designer on a first name basis and he calls them at home.  If you decide after all to take it easy and bring the stuff that simply looks nice you’re a fluffy-nutter and not having the right kind of fun, because you’ll just get ROFL-stomped by turn 2 and that tends to suck for both players genuinely.

thanks for listening.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Andalf

[Erdemo86]

I hate this waiting on warscrolls all the time.. would love if they would show us the warscroll of a model when they teaser it and not just the model. You show us vanquisher then show us the warscroll, same with the new lord commander. Hope we don’t have to wait till battletome comes out. 

[NauticalSoup]

Just now, Erdemo86 said:

I hate this waiting on warscrolls all the time.. would love if they would show us the warscroll of a model when they teaser it and not just the model. You show us vanquisher then show us the warscroll, same with the new lord commander. Hope we don’t have to wait till battletome comes out. 

I agree, it's annoying.

Unfortunately I think waiting for the book is exactly what we're going to have to do. If we get any teasers they won't be exhaustive so waiting it is

[Erdemo86]

3 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

I agree, it's annoying.

Unfortunately I think waiting for the book is exactly what we're going to have to do. If we get any teasers they won't be exhaustive so waiting it is

I know that it is some kind of marketing strategy but what’s the point really… we get the warscroll either way before we can buy it. So what’s the difference in getting it 2 weeks before preorder to 4 weeks before preorder…

[Champasaur]

4 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

I know that it is some kind of marketing strategy but what’s the point really… we get the warscroll either way before we can buy it. So what’s the difference in getting it 2 weeks before preorder to 4 weeks before preorder…

It's just about building hype. Slowly teasing and revealing the models and their warscrolls will build a lot more talk and social media activity over an extended period of time. Especially compared to just releasing everything at once but only having the hype last for 1-2 weeks.

[NauticalSoup]

1 hour ago, Champasaur said:

It's just about building hype. Slowly teasing and revealing the models and their warscrolls will build a lot more talk and social media activity over an extended period of time. Especially compared to just releasing everything at once but only having the hype last for 1-2 weeks.

That's the idea at least, but based on people's reactions to the endless wellspring of tedious, often badly-researched fluff articles WarCom has been spitting out nonstop for 3.0 the hype doesn't just magically grow because you make people wait. There's been a lot of talk, yes, but a lot of it has been negative. Far more negative than 9th edition 40k which during the buildup window gave people a lot more to actually be hyped about.

[Champasaur]

16 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

That's the idea at least, but based on people's reactions to the endless wellspring of tedious, often badly-researched fluff articles WarCom has been spitting out nonstop for 3.0 the hype doesn't just magically grow because you make people wait. There's been a lot of talk, yes, but a lot of it has been negative. Far more negative than 9th edition 40k which during the buildup window gave people a lot more to actually be hyped about.

I think the articles they released covering how each different faction "fares in 3.0" were absolutely terrible. They were boring and often just regurgitated the same information from previous articles. It was a cool concept, but not well executed at all. However, I don't think that in the example of Vanquishers it is a bad move for them to reveal the models and then wait for the warscrolls to be revealed later. I doubt we will have to wait for the new battletome before we see what these new warscrolls do. I'd imagine we'll get them spoiled in a couple weeks. Kinda like how most of the warscrolls for Dominion were spoiled.

[Tizianolol]

Guys do you know when new models are aviable on tts? Thx a lot!

[Lengthster]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys do you know when new models are aviable on tts? Thx a lot!

They're made by the community so it might take some time. From what I can tell, most are made from the 3D rotating view on the GW site, which is basically like 3D scanning, you gotta get the model then prepare it for textures and stuff it seems pretty involved.

[Tizianolol]

Its an amazing service for player , thx a lot for guys that work on tts!

[stus67]

Has anyone built any list with the dominion stuff yet or is everyone sort of in limbo and waiting for the book like me?

[Andalf]

My current list:

Yndrasta

Tauralon

LA on Gryphcharger

Lord Imperatant

10 x Sequitors

2 x 5 Sequitors

5 x Evocators w/ Grandstaves

3 x Annihilators 

Endless Lifeswarm

leaves me points for the triumph or a Burning Head.

So far it’s just been a take it and see how it goes.  I tried praetors my first couple games but didn’t really have a character/strategy that required them, and I’ve found reinforcing the battle line a bit more important for objectives.

It’s too bad that triumphs and grand strategies need to be chosen at list building, because there are games I’d rather go for the Warlord or protect my wizards over keeping battle line alive, but I suppose deciding what you’re planning to do before seeing what you’re playing into does add a sweet dynamic.

Yndrasta hasn’t been as versatile as I think she could be in a more defensive army.  I struggle to keep all the aura’s alive while still managing to get work done on the table.  She did solid work against Lumineth basically slowing down Avalenor’s ability to wreck the middle of the table by lowering his damage drastically, and against Neferata I think didn’t have the ability to hem all the cavalry in and she managed to wade through too many Sequitors before I managed to nip her with Spirit Flasks.

They make my Sacrosanct moderately tougher, mostly because of the added option of the Annihilators able to take the fight to the enemy rather than waiting around on objectives.  I really want to see how they do vs a real shooting army, my Lumineth are basically a few Starshards and the Moo-Cannon.

[ThunderstruckTinCan]

25 minutes ago, Andalf said:

My current list:

Yndrasta

Tauralon

LA on Gryphcharger

Lord Imperatant

10 x Sequitors

2 x 5 Sequitors

5 x Evocators w/ Grandstaves

3 x Annihilators 

Endless Lifeswarm

leaves me points for the triumph or a Burning Head. 

Looks really interesting, thanks!

Two questions; how do the Annihilators perform compared to the Evos? 

 

And can you explain why the LA Tauralon as well as LAoGC? Always struggle to make the Tauralon work well, but would love an excuse to take him! Do the new monster rules make that big a difference?

Edited July 8, 2021 by ThunderstruckTinCan

[LordPrometheus]

17 minutes ago, stus67 said:

Has anyone built any list with the dominion stuff yet or is everyone sort of in limbo and waiting for the book like me?

I ran this in a friendly game the other day:

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Yndrasta the Celestial Spear (300) in Vanguard
Lord-Relictor (110) in Warlord
- Prayer: Bless Weapons
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (130) in Warlord
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade

Battleline
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Judicators (300) in Warlord
- Skybolt Bows
- 2x Shockbolt Bows
- 8x Thunderbolt Crossbows
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Evocators (225) in Hunters of the Heartlands
5 x Decimators (185) in Vanguard
2 x Concussors (235) in Vanguard
3 x Praetors (155) in Hunters of the Heartlands

Core Battalions
Warlord
Vanguard
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Prayer

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118

 

 Went up against a Soulblight Monster Mash list, that was basically all Tgheists and Zombie dragons. I lost the VERY CLOSE game 19-18 vp, but I managed to kill every single monster and left him with one model. It was a blast. If I had made a single charge or if my opponent had failed a couple of saves, I would have pulled off the victory.

Granted, none of this is optimized, but I was very impressed with Yndrasta, the Praetors, and the Lord Imperitant. The 10 block of Judicators also put in some serious work. They are fantastic battleline. 

I think once our book drops, SCE is going to be amazing. The new models by themselves almost push us up to competitive levels.

[Andalf]

The new monster rules make him quite a bit harder to deal with IMO.  I still haven’t lost him in a game yet, and I’ve been typically throwing him at stuff with that goal in mind so I can watch that double Blazing Glory go off.  I put Thundershock on him so he’s now the travelling -1 to hit bubble that I seem to have in all my armies haha (Avalenor and Neferata have very similar affects).  He’s also fast enough to get out and score Battle Tactics, he’s been a real lynchpin in that regard.  The new VP scoring is something I think all foot lists will struggle with, but elite one’s in particular.  You need to plan which ones you’re going to score early to stay even, and have an idea for which ones you have a shot at in the late game in order to pull ahead; this decision has been more important than most in the games I’ve played.  With his speed he can get in turn one-two and contest or challenge some stuff and then double back and help in my backfield if it’s necessary.

The Gryphcharger lord is for Healing Light.  Yndrasta and the Tauralon have frequently been found on 1-3 Wounds left and it does a better job of topping up heroes than Emerald Lifeswarm does, which I keep near my main battle line and prefer bringing models back from the dead with.

Evocators vs Annihilators...  such an interesting question and I feel like I’d like to get 20+ games under my belt and see where the ‘meta’ settles before really wading in.  Annihilators are very scary so far, and have delivered the drubbings that I’ve sent them in to provide more than they’ve failed me.  I’ve been trying to keep them until turn 2 or 3 even, if you can hold out on objectives and bring them in as a counter they SLAY.  Evocators are more of a post-up on an objective and come-at-me-bruh kind of thing.  They don’t need any real support to hang with a lot of un-reinforced elite-killers; I think that plays more into 40k’s go and get all the objectives in a hurry first and worry about the melee in the middle later.  In AoS3 I’m finding that you need to time your plays but keep it interesting by staying in the game by doing the little things you’d ignore in order to do more damage previously.  I’m willing to stand out in the open for points and take shots all game, most opponents can’t scrub 15 4+ wounds off an objective with Shooting anymore, despite what the internet says.  Mostly because they have a 3+ save now, in all likely hood some minor after save or healing, and you can’t get +1 to hit and extra rend unless you’re exposing characters to retaliation.  It all plays quite nice together, even the edgiest cases everybody points out here as reasons to light their armies on fire haven’t been as bad because we’ve started to ensure our boards have a much more balanced terrain approach, a lot like 40k, which is incredibly important for delaying some of the worst.  I keep hearing about Raptors and Hurricanes and these flamers oh my.  Seemingly, spending 600+ points on A unit and supporting it with 500+ points of characters kind of sucks now, whether they are shooting or melee-centric.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Andalf

[boombyeyeah]

On the Interaction between Cycle of the Storm and Blaze of Glory:

Why not even combine it with a Hallowed Knights General?😅

Honestly, i dont think this is how it is supposed to work. In the Stormcast FAQ is written that Cycle of the Storm can stop a model from beeing slain. With the models right now this combo might not be overwhelmingly powerful, but just imagine some new multiwound drake with thunderarmor keyword...

[Andalf]

I apologize, mistakes were made clearly but it thankfully hasn’t done too much damage.  The list still does the same stuff, I don’t feel so bad switching out the Lord Arcanums for an Imperatant now.