AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[HammerOfSigmar]

I don't think a hero not on the table counts. From what I know, either the unit is dead, in reserve, on the ship or not yet summoned cannot do anything to the game. They are just not part of the game until you set them up on the table.

Edited November 8, 2018 by HammerOfSigmar

[FPC]

I’d have to agree with HammerOfSigmar. Think of it in reverse. Things that summon say the unit is “added to your army.”  That suggests to me “your army” means what’s on the table.  You wouldn’t say unsummoned demons in a chaos army who could be broght on with the different summoning mechanics are part of the army until they are actually summoned. Otherwise, theoretically their army is infinitely large and includes every possible unit. It might need clarification but “your army” probably means what’s on the table. Different from your warscroll or army list. This probably prevents having one unit of Libs/Sequitors as your only thing left and reviving it if it dies. Could probably use clarification or a designers note.

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, FPC said:

I’d have to agree with HammerOfSigmar. Think of it in reverse. Things that summon say the unit is “added to your army.”  That suggests to me “your army” means what’s on the table.  You wouldn’t say unsummoned demons in a chaos army who could be broght on with the different summoning mechanics are part of the army until they are actually summoned. Otherwise, theoretically their army is infinitely large and includes every possible unit. It might need clarification but “your army” probably means what’s on the table. Different from your warscroll or army list. This probably prevents having one unit of Libs/Sequitors as your only thing left and reviving it if it dies. Could probably use clarification or a designers note.

This is exactly my issue. In my friendly game the Soul of the Stormhost was successfully used on the last unit on the table which meant I had actually completely wiped out the army until he rolled a 6. Definitely need clarification here.

The other query I have is the Soul of the Stormhost mentions redeemer units. Are only liberators and Sequitors Redeemer units? Can other units (say vanguard raptors) be made into redeemer units with abilities?

[FPC]

As far as I know, the only redeemers are Libs and Sequitors. And also Steelhearts Champions tho never seem them in a list. Nothing can “grant” that keyword.

Edited November 9, 2018 by FPC

[Mark Williams]

8 minutes ago, FPC said:

As far as I know, the only redeemers are Libs and Sequitors. And also Steelhearts Champions tho never seem them in a list. Nothing can “grant” that keyword.

I faced a unit of Steelhearts Champions two tournaments ago. They were about like facing a unit of liberators. They are pretty cool looking, that’s about it.

[Lucur]

11 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Pg 233   "If you have any HEROES in you army, you can use command abilities." Having a HERO is the first condition for using Command abilities. 

 

Point taken, so a hero must remain on the field when the unit dies for the ability to be used. Ergo @Saxon got "cheated".

[The World Tree]

I feel like I'm going insane here, which is the pennant of the stormbringer for the vexillor? I cant find any clear answer.

[Saxon]

18 hours ago, Lucur said:

Point taken, so a hero must remain on the field when the unit dies for the ability to be used. Ergo @Saxon got "cheated".

I appreciate all the clarifications and comments on this.

We all havent played warhammer in a decade and are still working out the finer details of AOS2. Next time he wont be bringing back vanguard raptors and reviving units after his hero dies.

With this in mind, it's almost shocking how underpowered stormcast are. I play freeguild and basically killed 1000pts of stormcast after revivals with 700pts. 

[PJetski]

4 hours ago, The World Tree said:

I feel like I'm going insane here, which is the pennant of the stormbringer for the vexillor? I cant find any clear answer.

Whichever one you want. Just tell your opponent which one they have equipped.

[Lucur]

12 hours ago, Saxon said:

With this in mind, it's almost shocking how underpowered stormcast are. I play freeguild and basically killed 1000pts of stormcast after revivals with 700pts. 

I think it's less stormcast in general than specific units in stormcast that are rather lackluster. Horde armies are simply more efficient (and suffer less from outliers in dice) and automatically play missions better due to more board presence.

[Slaktor]

Well I faced Nighthaunt today led by Lady Olynder at a 1000 point game. Focal Points was the mission on a 4x4 table. I went with the Staunch Defender approach instead of Hammers of Sigmar. A 10 strong unit of Liberators really held out. Buffed by Warding Lantern and the prayer Divine Light they were nigh unstoppable. I had no wizard but a Knight Questor did some dispelling using the Spellsheild. 

It was a bloody great game which ended in defeat for Sigmars chosen, but it was a close call. We alternated between the Bloodborne OST and the metal band Hammerfall for background music. It was truly epic. 

I’ll build upon this experience and will continue with this “tight” tactic for now. Thanks for your thoughts and reflections. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Slaktor
Misspelling

[AdamR]

You gain the moral victory for using a knight questor!

[Slaktor]

19 hours ago, AdamR said:

You gain the moral victory for using a knight questor!

Haha, is that so?

Yeah, I think I know what you’re getting at. He is a true hero but he’s pretty horrible - but more importantly: he’s painted!

[PJetski]

Anyone play Tempest Lords? What do you do with all those extra command points? It seems like most Stormcast command abilities don't stack well.

Edited November 12, 2018 by PJetski

[HammerOfSigmar]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Anyone play Tempest Lords? What do you do with all those extra command points? It seems like most Stormcast command abilities don't stack well.

You can use the Lord Acranum on Gryph-Charger, sequitor and evocator. The Lord Acranum's CA can help you gain the effect of cleansing phalax, which worths 120 points, and even more, evocator's empower spell will automatically succeed.

[Bryan I Guess]

I want to work out a competitive Stardrake list. This is my rough draft.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
10 x Evocators (400)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
2 x Fulminators (240)
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

 

Start the board with Templar, Incantor, Heraldor, Liberators, and Skinks on board. The Drake will help the Incantor cast the cogs speeding up time turn one. Once everyone is speedy fast the Templar gets to run and charge across the board while the Fulminators and Evocators drop in with the Vexillor to help them achieve the 7" charge they would need.  Skinks are there for numbers on my home objective and a large line of deepstrike denial.

 

I will be using this list in a GT. My goal is best Stormcast as I know I will be dealing with highly competitive lists like DoK, LoN, and Idoneth Eel spam.  I know Gavriel is the surest (see what I did there?) guy, but I don't own him and am trying to make something work that is different than the norm.

 

What is the weakest part of the list? How should I equip artefacts? (Malign Sorcery is still in the air so we don't know if we can use it.) Should the Skinks be 2 squads of 10 instead? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[PJetski]

8 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

You can use the Lord Acranum on Gryph-Charger, sequitor and evocator. The Lord Acranum's CA can help you gain the effect of cleansing phalax, which worths 120 points, and even more, evocator's empower spell will automatically succeed.

If you are using Cleansing Phalanx then you don't need multiple command points... one CP to auto-cast Empower is enough to get rerollable hits + wounds + saves.

7 minutes ago, Bryan I Guess said:

I want to work out a competitive Stardrake list. This is my rough draft.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- General
- Storm Lance
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
10 x Evocators (400)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
2 x Fulminators (240)
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

 

Start the board with Templar, Incantor, Heraldor, Liberators, and Skinks on board. The Drake will help the Incantor cast the cogs speeding up time turn one. Once everyone is speedy fast the Templar gets to run and charge across the board while the Fulminators and Evocators drop in with the Vexillor to help them achieve the 7" charge they would need.  Skinks are there for numbers on my home objective and a large line of deepstrike denial.

 

I will be using this list in a GT. My goal is best Stormcast as I know I will be dealing with highly competitive lists like DoK, LoN, and Idoneth Eel spam.  I know Gavriel is the surest (see what I did there?) guy, but I don't own him and am trying to make something work that is different than the norm.

 

What is the weakest part of the list? How should I equip artefacts? (Malign Sorcery is still in the air so we don't know if we can use it.) Should the Skinks be 2 squads of 10 instead? Any help is greatly appreciated.

If you want to make a competitive Stardrake list you should use a Lord-Castellant.

The idea with Stardrake lists is to make him an unkillable anvil that ties down the enemy army (Staunch Defender & Warding Lantern for +2 to saves, and Ignax's Scales for a 4+ ignore against mortal wounds) then you use magic + shooting to kill the enemy safely from range.

[HammerOfSigmar]

6 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If you are using Cleansing Phalanx then you don't need multiple command points... one CP to auto-cast Empower is enough to get rerollable hits + wounds + saves.

If you want to make a competitive Stardrake list you should use a Lord-Castellant.

The idea with Stardrake lists is to make him an unkillable anvil that ties down the enemy army (Staunch Defender & Warding Lantern for +2 to saves, and Ignax's Scales for a 4+ ignore against mortal wounds) then you use magic + shooting to kill the enemy safely from range.

That's what I mean, with so many CP. Lord Arcanum can help bring you the effect of cleansing phalanx but you don't actually need to spend points on them. In brief, you get a free cleansing phalanx. Lord Arcanum can let evocator autocast empower, can let sequitor charge both their shield and weapon. Actually, it also frees you from bring two units of evocators and two units of sequitors. You can just bring a big unit of sequitor and a big unit of evocator. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by HammerOfSigmar

[Bryan I Guess]

10 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If you want to make a competitive Stardrake list you should use a Lord-Castellant.

The idea with Stardrake lists is to make him an unkillable anvil that ties down the enemy army (Staunch Defender & Warding Lantern for +2 to saves, and Ignax's Scales for a 4+ ignore against mortal wounds) then you use magic + shooting to kill the enemy safely from range.

Anywhere you can see room to fit the castellant in? I could drop the skinks. . .

[HammerOfSigmar]

1 minute ago, Bryan I Guess said:

Anywhere you can see room to fit the castellant in? I could drop the skinks. . .

From my point of view, heraldor and vexillor perform very similar task. Maybe drop heraldor.

[Bryan I Guess]

13 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

From my point of view, heraldor and vexillor perform very similar task. Maybe drop heraldor.

Heraldor synergizes real well with a good chunk of stuff; allowing my drake to get across the field turn one, allowing my drake to retreat and charge in case he gets bogged down by a large blob, same for the fulminators for keeping their damage at a consistent 3 for charging.

 

I do see your point though. . .hmmm grumble grumble.

[PJetski]

Heraldor is generally better than the Vexillor. I'll take Run & Retreat & Charge over rerolling charges (which can be gained through command abilities) any day of the week.

Heraldors shooting phase ability is good constant damage every turn if the enemy is anywhere near scenery, while the Vexillors meteor can only do damage once per game.

[HammerOfSigmar]

18 minutes ago, Bryan I Guess said:

Heraldor synergizes real well with a good chunk of stuff; allowing my drake to get across the field turn one, allowing my drake to retreat and charge in case he gets bogged down by a large blob, same for the fulminators for keeping their damage at a consistent 3 for charging.

 

I do see your point though. . .hmmm grumble grumble.

Heraldor can help a unit move an extra d6 distance, while vexillor  give may units a chance to reroll. From my point of view, both help you get close to the enemy much faster. Hence it depends on what you need. I dont know why you want to retreat the stardrake if you have buffed it to 2+ reroll 1 save and 4+ ignoring mortal wound. 

Also, from my point of view, stardrake cannot make much damage in combat except there is a perfect chance to raise enemy's unit continuity problem. I won't expect it to do more damage in combat than the big blob of evocator. Hence I will hope the enemy to concentrate their hits on the stardrake instead of the evocator.

For the heraldor's shooting, I won't think anything about that since it is useless if there is not terrain feature near the enemy at all. I have seen tournament with very few and small terrain on the table, so it might be possible that you get no chance to do the shooting all the game.

Edited November 12, 2018 by HammerOfSigmar

[Lucur]

Maybe replace the vexillor with a lord relictor with translocation, incantor and evocators can cast lightning speed to reroll charges if you need it. -1 to hit prayer can help drake or evocators survive. Maybe scramble for pts to upgrade the templar to Lord Castellant for reroll1s with mws through shield.

I'm not super experienced in tournament play though, just my 2cts

[Bryan I Guess]

I could downgrade the incantor to a cheaper caster (mistweaver sai or skink starpriest etc) then make the indicators into liberators that would free up points and I'd have vexillor castellant and heraldor.