ChaosLord Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Should Liberators be 90 points per 5 instead of 100? Would this decrease change anyone's lists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, PJetski said: Aetherwings blocking charges Mine will be ready soonish for battle but having 2d6 movement for the block means they need to stay close in order to be reliable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, ChaosLord said: Should Liberators be 90 points per 5 instead of 100? Would this decrease change anyone's lists? It would add 30 points to most of my lists 🤣 Liberators are definitely not worth 100 points per 5, but rather than reducing their cost I would rather see Liberators get two changes: 1. A new special rule for shields along the lines of "At the start of the movement phase this unit can declare that it will form a shield wall. Until the start of your next movement phase this unit cannot retreat or charge, but it can re-roll all save rolls". 2. If the unit is equipped with paired hammers/swords then 2 in 5 models can take a Grandhammer/Grandsword instead of just 1 in 5. Edited May 13, 2019 by PJetski 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOfSigmar Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, schwabbele said: Mine will be ready soonish for battle but having 2d6 movement for the block means they need to stay close in order to be reliable? There are two ways to use the bird. One way is to move the bird within 3" of the enemy unit to prevent it from charging, the other way to the put it close to your raptors, but a dedicate distance away, so that the enemy can only charge the bird but not the raptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said: There are two ways to use the bird. One way is to move the bird within 3" of the enemy unit to prevent it from charging, the other way to the put it close to your raptors, but a dedicate distance away, so that the enemy can only charge the bird but not the raptor. The third way is to keep them as the only unit just within 12" of the enemy, then move >12" away so they can't even declare a charge against anything. This tactic is especially useful against deep strike armies. Edited May 13, 2019 by PJetski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crkhobbit Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 A local player told me that Evocators are not good in 10-man units - they're only good as 5-man units. Considering taking a 15 man unit against him this week. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crkhobbit Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, PJetski said: 1. A new special rule for shields along the lines of "At the start of the movement phase this unit can declare that it will form a shield wall. Until the start of your next movement phase this unit cannot retreat or charge, but it can re-roll save rolls of 1". Liberators with Shields already re-roll save rolls of 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) Wait, yeah, they do ... he must have meant something else. Edited May 13, 2019 by ChaosLord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Woops, I meant reroll all saves instead of just save rolls of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Sequitors and Evocators were insane one year ago. Now, i feel sequitors are just the baseline unit in place of liberators, because every recent army can wreck them without difficulty. Evocators hit hard, but they are slow without investment, very previsible (they aren't a super fast moving flyinf unit with double pile-in striking first) and tend to die fast. Plus, unlike many stormcast units, evocator loose efficiency proportionnaly to their losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, PJetski said: It would add 30 points to most of my lists 🤣 Liberators are definitely not worth 100 points per 5, but rather than reducing their cost I would rather see Liberators get two changes: 1. A new special rule for shields along the lines of "At the start of the movement phase this unit can declare that it will form a shield wall. Until the start of your next movement phase this unit cannot retreat or charge, but it can re-roll all save rolls". 2. If the unit is equipped with paired hammers/swords then 2 in 5 models can take a Grandhammer/Grandsword instead of just 1 in 5. I like this. Liberators are literally an anvil unit to break up enemy charges. I get that they dont hit well, theyre not supposed to. but man a defensive option like this would go a long way in making them good again at 90pts or so. I cant believe there isnt a shield wall battalion - 2 + liberators and a lord castellant - some defensive bonus or something. Seems like it would be a shoe in for that warrior chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, ledha said: Sequitors and Evocators were insane one year ago. Now, i feel sequitors are just the baseline unit in place of liberators, because every recent army can wreck them without difficulty. Evocators hit hard, but they are slow without investment, very previsible (they aren't a super fast moving flyinf unit with double pile-in striking first) and tend to die fast. Plus, unlike many stormcast units, evocator loose efficiency proportionnaly to their losses. I don't think Sequitors were ever insane Evocators are still very good (arguably the best unit in the whole book) but theyre in-line with what other AOS 2.0 armies are doing for 200 points. Unless they change the warscrolls (or battalion rules) then Retributors would have to cost 160 to make them a worthwhile choice over Evocators at 200 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PJetski said: I don't think Sequitors were ever insane Evocators are still very good (arguably the best unit in the whole book) but theyre in-line with what other AOS 2.0 armies are doing for 200 points. Unless they change the warscrolls (or battalion rules) then Retributors would have to cost 160 to make them a worthwhile choice over Evocators at 200 Give +1 wound to all paladins and +1 attack to retributors and protectors. Change the decimators in 4 attacks 3+/3+/-1/1 rerolling hits against units of 5 or + (like grimghast or skullreapers) Keep the same point cost. Boom. Now paladins are usable and in line with evocators. Edited May 13, 2019 by ledha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) Liberators really should be 3+ to hit I think. God Forged superhumans should reliably be able to hit stuff. Basically the Statline of Sequitors and Libs should be the same and the special weapons capacity the same. Only the abilities should separate them, thus defining their role. Hunters should also hit on 3+ in combat. Edited May 13, 2019 by Nos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salami Vendoe Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 5 hours ago, frostfire said: Is Anvilstrike a solid build to counter FEC? On average, 9 Longstrikes with CA would generate 18 attacks which cause 6 mws and 8 successful wound rolls. Without the Amulet and its own magic getting through , it is almost a guaranteed death to the dragon. But if it brings the amulet and the spell is carried out, it becomes much more unkillable. We stand a chance, but not so reliable imo. Ima a bit new. What does the list comprise of? Units and heroes. I apologize for new. Questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Salami Vendoe said: Ima a bit new. What does the list comprise of? Units and heroes. I apologize for new. Questions Well basically there are 9 Longstrikes Crossbow,10 Evocators, a priest for translocation, a Knight Incantor for her dispell scroll ,some cheap chaff like skinks and aetherwings in a typical Anvil list. And it takes stormhost Anvil of Heldenhammer ,of course, to use its CA to attack/shoot in your hero phase. Edited May 14, 2019 by frostfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 6 hours ago, PJetski said: There's more in the list than just Longstrikes - 10 Evocators can reliably kill a Terrorgheist in one round of attacks, and they don't care about an Ethereal Amulet. Between 2 dispel scrolls, disposable Liberator screens, and Aetherwings blocking charges I have never had a problem with any FEC list. The tactic that charging your evocators to another unit and piling in to tap the Terrorgheist sounds brilliant, but without Gav Surecharge it’s less reliable. I thick the advantage of a Gav list is that you get to choose when and where to fight with surecharge and so is the GG terrogheists. In many cases it will be like this: you shoot the bat-like drogon down to 3-4 wounds, and it charges evocators, kill them all and heal with the Chalice spell So I think the key to counter the GG terrogheists is Knight Incantor rather than Evocators. Denying 5+fnp and the chalice means a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salami Vendoe Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 hours ago, frostfire said: The tactic that charging your evocators to another unit and piling in to tap the Terrorgheist sounds brilliant, but without Gav Surecharge it’s less reliable. I thick the advantage of a Gav list is that you get to choose when and where to fight with surecharge and so is the GG terrogheists. In many cases it will be like this: you shoot the bat-like drogon down to 3-4 wounds, and it charges evocators, kill them all and heal with the Chalice spell So I think the key to counter the GG terrogheists is Knight Incantor rather than Evocators. Denying 5+fnp and the chalice means a lot. Thank you very much. Very interesting. I’m playing in a non super competitive meta. I have fec players but they refuse to run terrorgheists due to the fact they aren’t fun. Now this question might be insane but, what are fun lists with fun models!? I love Paladins, paladors, raptors and hunters but I was told vanguard are garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrayKing Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 24 minutes ago, Salami Vendoe said: Thank you very much. Very interesting. I’m playing in a non super competitive meta. I have fec players but they refuse to run terrorgheists due to the fact they aren’t fun. Now this question might be insane but, what are fun lists with fun models!? I love Paladins, paladors, raptors and hunters but I was told vanguard are garbage. @Salami Vendoe I'm in the same boat, I love the Vanguard models and lore and from everything I've read they don't want to get stopped up in combat, they just want to moving around picking off small units and claiming objectives. Here's what my list looks like if you'd like a sample army. Order - Stormcast Eternals (1,940pts) Knight-Azyros (100pts) Knight-Heraldor (100pts) Knight-Incantor, Azyrite Halo (140pts) Lord-Aquilor, Shielded by Faith, Keen-clawed, Mirrorshield, General (200pts) Lord-Celestant (100pts) 5x Vanguard-Hunters, Astral Compass, Storm Sabre (120pts) 5x Vanguard-Hunters, Astral Compass, Storm Sabre (120pts) 5x Vanguard-Hunters, Astral Compass, Storm Sabre (120pts) 6x Vanguard-Palladors, Starstrike Javelin (400pts) 9x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (540pts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lord Ein said: OT: I’ve had my Celestant-Prime on sprue for a year now, and there is a 1750 local tournament coming in the summer.. its time to paint it up and use him in a list! but, any advice on making a Prime list? And when to drop him, t2 or t3? thanks in advance ❤️ I use a Celestant Prime in every list I make. Here are the various lists that I use: Balanced List #1 Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of SigmarMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersLord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)- General- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield- Trait: We Cannot Fail - Artefact: God-forged Blade - Mount Trait: Keen-clawedKnight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Lighntning BlastLord-Relictor (100)- Prayer: Divine LightCelestant-Prime (340)Battleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt CrossbowsUnits5 x Evocators (200)- 5x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)War MachinesCelestar Ballista (100)Endless SpellsEverblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 99 Balanced List #2 Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of SigmarMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersLord-Celestant (100)- General- Trait: We Cannot Fail - Artefact: God-forged Blade Knight-Azyros (100)Knight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Lighntning BlastCelestant-Prime (340)Battleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt CrossbowsUnits5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)5 x Evocators (200)- 5x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial BladesWar MachinesCelestar Ballista (100)Endless SpellsEverblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 107 Gav Bomb Balanced Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of SigmarMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersLord-Castellant (100)- General- Trait: We Cannot Fail - Artefact: God-forged Blade Gavriel Sureheart (100)Knight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Azyrite HaloCelestant-Prime (340)Battleline10 x Liberators (200)- Warhammer & Shield- 2x Grandhammers5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt CrossbowsUnits3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)5 x Evocators (200)- 5x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Terrifying AspectWar MachinesCelestar Ballista (100)Endless SpellsEverblaze Comet (100)Total: 1950 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 108 Gav Bomb + Shooting Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of SigmarMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersKnight-Azyros (100)- General- Trait: We Cannot Fail - Artefact: God-forged Blade Gavriel Sureheart (100)Knight-Venator (120)Celestant-Prime (340)Battleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt CrossbowsUnits3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)10 x Evocators (400)- 10x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial BladesTotal: 1950 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 113 Gav Bomb Silly Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of SigmarMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersKnight-Azyros (100)- General- Trait: We Cannot Fail - Artefact: God-forged Blade Gavriel Sureheart (100)Vandus Hammerhand (280)Celestant-Prime (340)Battleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandblades5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite GreatmacesUnits3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)10 x Evocators (400)- 10x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Terrifying AspectTotal: 1740 / 2000Extra Command Points: 5Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 107 Hyper Shooting Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of SigmarMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersKnight-Azyros (100)- General- Trait: We Cannot Fail - Artefact: God-forged Blade Lord-Castellant (100)Knight-Venator (120)Knight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Lighntning BlastCelestant-Prime (340)Battleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows5 x Judicators (160)- Boltstorm Crossbows- 1x Thunderbolt CrossbowsUnits3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)War MachinesCelestar Ballista (100)Endless SpellsQuicksilver Swords (20)Everblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 96 I worry that just showing these lists without explaining how to use them won't accomplish much, but there you go. I've used all of the above lists in tournaments over the past year and a half. Have about a 40% win rate regardless of the list, but the shooting ones seem to do a bit better than the assault, on the whole. As to how to use the Celestant Prime - I never really use him as a long range artillery like I see other people use. I think that's kind of a poor use of him. I generally bring him out turn 2 or 3, and use him to either take out a target that I can't get through their armor (ie. monsters), or to capture or defend objectives. Occasionally, I've brought him out turn 1 in order to grab an objective, but this is very rare, as he's basically a "glass cannon", and if you bring him out too early, your opponent has too much stuff alive, and they'll just counter charge him and remove him. You try to spend the first 2-3 turns removing threats on the board that can deal with him, so that when he comes out, your opponent has nothing left that can kill him quickly. He's not a tank. The best game I ever had with the Prime was that I assaulted a Morathi after taking 4-5 wounds off of her with a meteor and shooting. I used his "change a save" ability to keep him alive, and he basically "tanked" morathi for an entire game, and killed her. The DoK player was rolling really bad, but still an amazing game. Edited May 14, 2019 by Mark Williams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 The Celestant Prime can be absolutely brutal. Holding him back can really shape your opponent's behaviour. That you can charge so reliably is vital. They just destroy units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 12 hours ago, frostfire said: The tactic that charging your evocators to another unit and piling in to tap the Terrorgheist sounds brilliant, but without Gav Surecharge it’s less reliable. I thick the advantage of a Gav list is that you get to choose when and where to fight with surecharge and so is the GG terrogheists. In many cases it will be like this: you shoot the bat-like drogon down to 3-4 wounds, and it charges evocators, kill them all and heal with the Chalice spell So I think the key to counter the GG terrogheists is Knight Incantor rather than Evocators. Denying 5+fnp and the chalice means a lot. If the terrorgheist is charging Evocators you aren't playing Anvilstrike right. Terrorgheist should never charge anything but Liberators, and their first charges should always get denied by Aetherwings. Also, you can't use Gavriel in Anvils. Even if you could he wouldn't be used in Anvilstrike because he is not necessary - the Longstrikes force the enemy to come to you, and then the Evocators clean them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven_lord Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 hours ago, PJetski said: If the terrorgheist is charging Evocators you aren't playing Anvilstrike right. Terrorgheist should never charge anything but Liberators, and their first charges should always get denied by Aetherwings. Also, you can't use Gavriel in Anvils. Even if you could he wouldn't be used in Anvilstrike because he is not necessary - the Longstrikes force the enemy to come to you, and then the Evocators clean them up. Hey, would you have an example of anvil strike list please ? I am really interested to get un with this stormhost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Heaven_lord said: Hey, would you have an example of anvil strike list please ? I am really interested to get un with this stormhost I believe I have just put it right above 17 hours ago, frostfire said: basically there are 9 Longstrikes Crossbow,10 Evocators, a priest for translocation, a Knight Incantor for her dispell scroll ,some cheap chaff like skinks and aetherwings in a typical Anvil list. May underestimate what aetherwings can do in this list. It seems I have to play more to master the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) frostfire has the core of the list right. You definitely want Aetherwings, they are an invaluable tool. I bring 2 units to my 2000pt list but I would love 50 points to spare to bring a 3rd unit. Edited May 14, 2019 by PJetski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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