AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[CommissarRotke]

8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

 

well, it's not a Norse rune and also doesn't look like a simple combination of two runes. I put it into https://shapecatcher.com/ but did not get any similar-enough hits. Not seeing any similarity to dwarf runes either. Unsure of what else to compare it to, so my guess would be something within AOS itself.

[PrimeElectrid]

55 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I agree that GW will probably follow the same path with the Newcast that they did with the Primaris. I'm not so optimistic to think that oldcast will be buffed, but it sure would be nice!

Sequitors did not replace Liberators even though they had a better warscroll and "better" models and Castigators did not replace Judicators. It's possible for every unit to have a niche... but I dont trust GW to get this right because they have failed so many times before

Good point, though Castigators are pretty garbage.

On a related note, does anyone else find it weird that we never got castigator multipart kits in the end? Really odd oversight that 

[CommissarRotke]

yeah Castigators feel kinda tacked on, even if their aesthetic fits perfectly into Sacrosanct. Only an ETB kit and the 5 pushfit sculpts for the starter is still strange. and clearly the ETB didn't do that well since it is also now a warband and in the Black Watch kit. Might keep that regiment box unopened for now... just in case

[jhamslam]

So rumor wise

WE have a new judicator unit, sleeker dragon cavalry and then 2 more new heroes on the way

Cities of Sigmar is also getting a revamp, with something like Imperial Guard of Sigmar

So we might be getting a city ally in option

Oh and reportedly a Felix SCE is in the works

Edited May 10, 2021 by jhamslam

[Feii]

1 hour ago, OkayestDM said:

That's honestly more or less what I'm expecting. Cycling out certain molds over time makes sence, and as a model company they have to ensure that they are able to continually introduce more new models - and that people will buy them, but that won't do them much good if they alienate the bulk of their fan base by destroying the thing they love.

There's an old saying in business, it cost 4-10x as much to draw in a new customer as it does to keep an existing one. Sure, Newcast will draw in some outlier players who avoided Stormcast before for aesthetic reasons, but if they upset a lot of their long-term Sormcast players and drive them away by destroying the thing they love, it'll cost them a lot more in the long run. We're already here, giving them money for this product, it behooves them to keep us onboard until they can get us comfortable with the slow and steady changeover.

The slow-burn to phase out the models matches how GW is already doing things. Anybody remember how at the beginning of 2020 everybody was saying that AoS 2 was actually in a pretty good place as far as balance was concerned, and they didn't really want a new edition? Then Tzeentch, KO, and Seraphon got updated, and Lumineth was released, and now a year later folks are ready for an update because the game balance is out of wack? Lots of people said Psychic Awakening did the same thing to 40K.

I'm pretty sure we'll get at least one good edition with our classic SCE models before they start moving past them.

 

Psychic Awakening did jack ******. it had some models that were equal to LRL wave 2 lol.  At the same time terminators (old ass models) are super good RN for SM players and the same goes for vanguard veterans.

[CommissarRotke]

48 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

So rumor wise

WE have a new judicator unit, sleeker dragon cavalry and then 2 more new heroes on the way

Cities of Sigmar is also getting a revamp, with something like Imperial Guard of Sigmar

So we might be getting a city ally in option

Oh and reportedly a Felix SCE is in the works

I know this rumor is using that Azyrite quiver... still holding out hope that it's for Order of Azyr. My other thought was horse archers since 2 other kits of those have been released. But if they're new foot bows, and also mixed like the Vindictors? Well I'm gonna need a box

[baiardo]

3 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Oh and reportedly a Felix SCE is in the works

What are they?

[OkayestDM]

2 hours ago, baiardo said:

What are they?

Felix was the friend and companion to Gotrek in the Old World. He was reportedly reforged into a Stormcast, and Gotrek has been looking for him ever since he appeared in the mortal realms.

So, this would just be a single model.

[xking]

10 hours ago, Whitefang said:

Nah thunderstrike are really just primaris Stormcast 

By the lesson from 40k apparently GW is not gonna erase oldcast at once

TBH I guess they will buff oldcast in the 3ed as appeal to veteran players and then gradually support newcast supplement by supplement and 2 or 3 editions later there will be no one using oldcast

Then that’s the moment they will justify retiring oldcast, maybe not giving them rule adjustment as the first step.

Thanks for letting me know.   Imagine going through all the effort of creating new campaign books, just to make a justification to erase and replace an entire relatively new army.   Instead of supporting  all of the other factions that  barely get anything.  What a f*ckton of bullsh*t!

Edited May 10, 2021 by xking

[Kaladreon]

I'm hoping the sleeker cavalry rumours are true and hoping even more for some kind of flying drake cav. About pegasus size would be ideal!

[Mark Williams]

Concerning some of the chatter over the last few days. The new aesthetic and unit types were not what I was expecting, but I'm all in regardless of what they do.

I agree that choosing to play Stormcast is a bit of a curse of having to re-invent your army every few years, much more so than many other armies out there. However, I'm not unhappy with this situation as I like painting and buying models.

Looking back at Soul Wars, I never truly adapted my army and play style to the new units (Sacrosacnt chamber), and it's one thing that I'm looking to correct as a high priority with the new release this year. I want to go more heavily into the new units and embrace them completely rather than just painting a handful but not really digging myself in.

Concerning Castigators, I've started to like them a bit more than I used to. I've been playing around with units of 6 or 9 in a Stormtower Garrison as a second unit of Justicar to fill out the Battalion, and I'm finding that the new Stormkeep rules are pretty fun to play with.

I'm excited to see what comes next.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Mark Williams

[Andalf]

Seeing as how the new big Terminator guys are called out as a new kind of paladin, I don’t see anything being phased.  If anything I’m expecting a more 40kified version of the rule set and hopefully not quite as strong a release schedule necessary seeing as most factions are in a good spot and the ones that aren’t seem like upgrades are inbound.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Andalf

[rosa]

If all the rumors are true, sce are becoming a really toxic army for me. 
i really dislike bloated roosters with same warscrolls with the same purpose. 
How many shooting units will we have when the successor of judicatory come? 6-7? Lol…

How many bloated foot troops? 
sorry, I will sell them. GW just made a Bad move  

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by rosa

[Feii]

I think it fully depends on the rules. All 40k SM chapters use mostly the same roster but some chapters use different ones than the other. I wouldn’t be against more comptehensive chambers. Make evocators battleline for the sempiternal chamber by default and for other armies with the current general limitation. 
 

I really wish they rewerote our battletome in that way. 
 

 

also talking about our new archers 

[Nordrim]

4 hours ago, rosa said:

If all the rumors are true, sce are becoming a really toxic army for me. 
i really dislike bloated roosters with same warscrolls with the same purpose. 
How many shooting units will we have when the successor of judicatory come? 6-7? Lol…

How many bloated foot troops? 
sorry, I will sell them. GW just made a Bad move  

 

I like our roosters! Yah they have half dog/feline but they are by no means bloated. How dare you bad mouth gryphhound and chargers. 🧐

[CommissarRotke]

41 minutes ago, Feii said:

I think it fully depends on the rules. All 40k SM chapters use mostly the same roster but some chapters use different ones than the other. I wouldn’t be against more comptehensive chambers. Make evocators battleline for the sempiternal chamber by default and for other armies with the current general limitation. 
 

I really wish they rewerote our battletome in that way. 
 

 

also talking about our new archers 

that pauldron does look similar to the Vindictor ones doesn't it? but the arrows are not the Azyrite fletched ones of the other rumor mill hmm... I hope I'm right and the other one is a COS kit

[Feii]

14 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

that pauldron does look similar to the Vindictor ones doesn't it? but the arrows are not the Azyrite fletched ones of the other rumor mill hmm... I hope I'm right and the other one is a COS kit

if they rewrite the scrolls of our first (2nd of sce) wave of archers to be more against anti people and these ones are more against beasts et.c  I think they could fulfill 2 different roles.  

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, Feii said:

if they rewrite the scrolls of our first (2nd of sce) wave of archers to be more against anti people and these ones are more against beasts et.c  I think they could fulfill 2 different roles.  

ooh nice idea: Judicators could be anti-Chaos, Castigators anti-Death, new archers anti-monster/Destruction. This most recent rumor may be a mid-3.0 release too, and starter is the Azyrite arrows.

[PJetski]

Anti-FACTION shooting is a bad niche for a unit when there are so many other ways to distinguish shooting units.

The problem with FACTION bonuses is that they can never design the bonuses to be very strong because you don't want one player to just roll over an opponent because of that one ability. It's not fun for a Daemons player to face off against an army that does double damage to Daemons,. Even if that army is the bottom of the barrel in the competitive meta and relatively rare, it's still not a scenario you should create as a game designer.

It always ends up being a  flavourful but very weak bonus like "reroll hit1 vs CHAOS" (in a faction that has other ways to reroll hit1) that you can basically ignore when making comparisons to other units.

Better niches that a shooting unit can fill:

• Bonuses against MONSTER
• Bonuses against hordes
• Bonuses against HERO
• Bonuses against a specified enemy unit
• Specific bonuses against specific wound characteristic (eg. 1, 2, 5+, 10+)
• Battleline
• Conditional battleline
• Strong but limited in number (eg. Unique or Artillery)
• High model count so it uses buffs effectively
• High range
• High volume of attacks
• High rend and/or mortal wounds
• High mobility (eg. run and shoot, redeployment)
• Good defenses
• Good melee attacks if they shot at the same unit
• Bonuses to shooting after teleport/scions
• Ignoring line of sight
• Ignoring Look Out Sir
• Ignore modifiers to hit
• Bonus damage if enemy is more than half range
• Bonus damage if enemy is less than half range
• Attacks bounce to nearby enemies (eg. grenade explosion, or chain lightning)
• Target specific models instead of units
• Buffing nearby units

The limit is your imagination and there really is no excuse not to have a defined niche for every unit in a battletome. Designers have limited time for each book but as a customer you should be demanding higher quality products.

 

[Feii]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Anti-FACTION shooting is a bad niche for a unit when there are so many other ways to distinguish shooting units.

The problem with FACTION bonuses is that they can never design the bonuses to be very strong because you don't want one player to just roll over an opponent because of that one ability. It's not fun for a Daemons player to face off against an army that does double damage to Daemons,. Even if that army is the bottom of the barrel in the competitive meta and relatively rare, it's still not a scenario you should create as a game designer.

It always ends up being a  flavourful but very weak bonus like "reroll hit1 vs CHAOS" (in a faction that has other ways to reroll hit1) that you can basically ignore when making comparisons to other units.

Better niches that a shooting unit can fill:

• Bonuses against MONSTER
• Bonuses against hordes
• Bonuses against HERO
• Bonuses against a specified enemy unit
• Specific bonuses against specific wound characteristic (eg. 1, 2, 5+, 10+)
• Battleline
• Conditional battleline
• Strong but limited in number (eg. Unique or Artillery)
• High model count so it uses buffs effectively
• High range
• High volume of attacks
• High rend and/or mortal wounds
• High mobility (eg. run and shoot, redeployment)
• Good defenses
• Good melee attacks if they shot at the same unit
• Bonuses to shooting after teleport/scions
• Ignoring line of sight
• Ignoring Look Out Sir
• Ignore modifiers to hit
• Bonus damage if enemy is more than half range
• Bonus damage if enemy is less than half range
• Attacks bounce to nearby enemies (eg. grenade explosion, or chain lightning)
• Target specific models instead of units
• Buffing nearby units

The limit is your imagination and there really is no excuse not to have a defined niche for every unit in a battletome. Designers have limited time for each book but as a customer you should be demanding higher quality products.

 

I wasnt talking about anti faction units more like anti statline units.  New blood knights rules revealed a few minutes ago show that blood knights get different rewards for killing different type of units (heroes and monsters/less than 3 wounds/more than 3 wounds) 

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

The problem with FACTION bonuses is that they can never design the bonuses to be very strong because you don't want one player to just roll over an opponent because of that one ability. It's not fun for a Daemons player to face off against an army that does double damage to Daemons,. Even if that army is the bottom of the barrel in the competitive meta and relatively rare, it's still not a scenario you should create as a game designer.

darn, you're right.. sucks that unit fluff won't take precedence over balance but I completely get why. I guess that means Castigators could be anti-horde since their unit idea is "exploding crossbow bolts", making Judicators more of an all-rounder or anti-armor (giant arrows) unit

[jhamslam]

Yeah i would have liked it if castigators were launching RPG esque soul flasks into the enemy , itd make their highly elite model count make sense.

[PJetski]

22 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

darn, you're right.. sucks that unit fluff won't take precedence over balance but I completely get why. I guess that means Castigators could be anti-horde since their unit idea is "exploding crossbow bolts", making Judicators more of an all-rounder or anti-armor (giant arrows) unit

Yup that's exactly where my mind went when I was rewriting stormcast warscrolls last year

[CommissarRotke]

19 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Yeah i would have liked it if castigators were launching RPG esque soul flasks into the enemy , itd make their highly elite model count make sense.

imagine my disappointment when the warscroll doesn't match what's clearly supposed to be a fantasy-RPG...

[lare2]

Just a thought I had reading over some of the comments above. We now know the new termy Stormcast dude has a save up of 2+. I know it's a bit touchy at the minute to compare Stormcast with 40k but what if they decide to copy the marine set up with Termies having a 2+ save and basic marines (i.e. liberators, etc.) having a 3+ save. That'd be cool... just a thought.