AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Nos]

 Can I get some vs Nighthaunt suggestions pweez

[AdamR]

1 minute ago, Nos said:

 Can I get some vs Nighthaunt suggestions pweez

Give your Evocators grandstaves.

If they are running lots of chainrasp hordes, maybe decimators finally have a place.

And it's hard to go wrong with 20 staunch/warded/haloed Sequitors!

Or - if they're going bravery bomb how about Skyborne Slayers? Laugh as you just ignore battleshock entirely. And it has the aformentioned Decimators in it!

[XReN]

7 minutes ago, Nos said:

 Can I get some vs Nighthaunt suggestions pweez

Well... more dice, more damage, more MWs, forget about rend
Can you give us an example of what in particular makes you struggle with NHs?

Edited January 21, 2019 by XReN

[Bradipo322]

21 minutes ago, AdamR said:

Are they just the Prime's fancier swords? Are there 2 with male arms and 2 female?

Exept that there aren't any fancy maces and there aren't any Sequitor-Primes that wield that swords on the official GW photos (in those photos they have the normal swords) and if that was the case I think that they would have them.

[Nos]

23 minutes ago, XReN said:

Well... more dice, more damage, more MWs, forget about rend
Can you give us an example of what in particular makes you struggle with NHs?

Not played them since Soul Wars was released at which point they weren’t really an issue because it was just start collecting stuff. So it’s not that I’m struggling because I’ve not actually played them properly really.  But my ignorance of how SC interact with Night haunt is making me nevous.

I know they depend on heroes a lot and am basically operating on the assumption that if I get them I’ll win. 

Its only 1000 points which is the other issue. Wouldn’t be so worried above that but I feel with a lack of bodies and wounds I might get swamped as they have the capacity to get a good blender synergy going.  A lot of what makes SC good at smaller games feels negated by Nighthaunt at the same level.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Nos

[azmarus]

guys give advice, what list better on competiv 2day tournament:

Meet WagoN

Spoiler

llegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 

Battleline
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandblades
- 5x Grandhammers
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers

Units
10 x Evocators (400)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 162
 

or frost chiken

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (280)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandblades
- 5x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandblades
- 5x Grandhammers
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
5 x Evocators (200)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 280 / 400
Wounds: 139

 

[PJetski]

If you are using Gavriel you should definitely drop Evocators into play instead of Liberators.

Liberators don't really do anything except take up space. Trying to fit 30 of them on table so you are >9" from the enemy can be quite difficult.

[azmarus]

maybe change 30 lib on 9 long raptor ?

or Phalanx

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard
Lord-Arcanum (180)
Lord-Castellant (100)

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows

Units
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
10 x Evocators (400)
5 x Evocators (200)

Battalions
Cleansing Phalanx (120)

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by azmarus

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, XReN said:

I REALLY don't want ANYTHING new for SCE this year 
(except maybe named characters for stormhosts other that HoS)

 

Do you think FW may be hinting that more SCE stuff will come from them? I mean they LOVE space marines, and SCE are fantasy space marines.

[Karragon]

@azmarus personally I think Gavriel is massively overrated. He's a one trick pony that everyone and their dog knows how to counter and to really make him work you have to invest 200-250 points in him (him + 2-3 cmd points).

I'm a big fan of the Phalanx though. 20 sequitors with empower, celestial blades, halo and lantern on them are not going anywhere and with 9 great maces they are going to do a fair amount of damage, especially against things like the ubiquitous 30 grimgast.

If I wasn't having so much fun running a big block of EoCDs at the moment I'd probably be running something similar to this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Relictor (100)
20 x Sequitors (400)
20 x Sequitors (400)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Evocators (200)
Cleansing Phalanx (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

 

 

[robinlvalentine]

1 hour ago, Bradipo322 said:

Exept that there aren't any fancy maces and there aren't any Sequitor-Primes that wield that swords on the official GW photos (in those photos they have the normal swords) and if that was the case I think that they would have them.

They definitely are just special fancy swords for the Primes... they're on the Prime sprue and made to fit the Prime bodies. 

It's not one of GW's more logical design choices (especially as Primes have no reason to use a sword in the rules) but that's what they are, I'd be very surprised if they were ever intended to be some kind of special weapon. I think the sculptor just thought it'd be cool to include some special swords on the sprue for the Prime. I've found them useful for conversions! 

[Karragon]

2 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

They definitely are just special fancy swords for the Primes... they're on the Prime sprue and made to fit the Prime bodies. 

It's not one of GW's more logical design choices (especially as Primes have no reason to use a sword in the rules) but that's what they are, I'd be very surprised if they were ever intended to be some kind of special weapon. I think the sculptor just thought it'd be cool to include some special swords on the sprue for the Prime. I've found them useful for conversions! 

They do have a reason, the Redemption Cache...it's not a good reason, but it is at least still a reason.

[robinlvalentine]

43 minutes ago, Karragon said:

They do have a reason, the Redemption Cache...it's not a good reason, but it is at least still a reason.

Yeah, but if you take that, then the model holds the Redemption Cache in their sword hand and has the sword sheathed on their hip, so still no need for a sword arm unless you're doing a conversion. 

It's like how you can build one of the Primes to have a one-handed weapon and no shield - a lot of the Sacrosanct models have weird options that there's no reason to use in the rules. 

[stato]

5 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

Yeah, but if you take that, then the model holds the Redemption Cache in their sword hand and has the sword sheathed on their hip, so still no need for a sword arm unless you're doing a conversion. 

It's like how you can build one of the Primes to have a one-handed weapon and no shield - a lot of the Sacrosanct models have weird options that there's no reason to use in the rules. 

I built one of my sequitors with the pointing hand instead of a shield, I also built a prime conversion with a Cache and shield using the ETB prime.  I shall now quit the hobby as I'm clearly doing it wrong by having fun and not being a slave to the most point efficient builds 😏

Edited January 21, 2019 by stato

[robinlvalentine]

2 minutes ago, stato said:

I built one of my sequitors with the pointing hand instead of a shield, I also built a prime conversion with a Cache and shield using the ETB prime.  I shall now quit the hobby as I'm clearly doing it wrong by having fun and not being a slave to the most point efficient builds 😏

You're putting words in my mouth... You're free to build your models however you like. I'm just saying that some of the options, even though they look cool, have no purpose in the rules, and that that's a bit weird. In no way am I passing judgement on anyone's mini collections. 

[stato]

9 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

You're putting words in my mouth... You're free to build your models however you like. I'm just saying that some of the options, even though they look cool, have no purpose in the rules, and that that's a bit weird. In no way am I passing judgement on anyone's mini collections. 

I know sorry, it was supposed to be a joke.  Too many of these conversations go down the path of if its not in the rules then its worthless and often end in blame being thrown at GW (blame for giving people options, hilarious), like the Castigator ETB coming with a gryph-hound FOR FREE (the other ETB set was just 3 models) and people were practically going crazy that it didnt have rules (or to be correct, points, because points is all so many people care about), actually complaining about FREE stuff, weird. 

There is nothing weird about giving a model kit options, people get all bent out of shape just because some of the options are not 'optimal', thats the weird bit.   I swear sometimes people would be happier with the old style mono-pose one piece models.

Edited January 21, 2019 by stato

[robinlvalentine]

7 minutes ago, stato said:

I know sorry, it was supposed to be a joke.  Too many of these conversations go down the path of if its not in the rules then its worthless and often end in blame being thrown at GW (blame for giving people options, hilarious), like the Castigator ETB coming with a gryph-hound FOR FREE (the other ETB set was just 3 models) and people were practically going crazy that it didnt have rules (or to be correct, points, because points is all so many people care about), actually complaining about FREE stuff, weird. 

There is nothing weird about giving a model kit options, people get all bent out of shape just because some of the options are not 'optimal', thats the weird bit.   I swear sometimes people would be happier with the old style mono-pose one piece models.

I mostly agree - I do think that more competitive players tend to assume the game revolves around them, when actually often GW's releases serve a very different audience (as you say, the Gryph Hound might not make perfect sense for matched play, but it's a lovely freebie for open or narrative play, or even Skirmish, and particularly young players are probably just thinking 'cool, free bird-dog!' rather than 'how does this fit into my tournament list?') 

But I do think some of the Sacrosanct stuff is a little... messy. 

There's a difference between 'this build isn't perfectly optimal' and 'this build is objectively detrimental in the rules'. 

So, for example, competitively speaking the Redemption Cache isn't a great option compared to the Greatmace. But it is at least a genuine choice - do you want this effect, or this effect? Which is better than the other is a matter for players to decide and debate. The balance is maybe a bit off, but in theory the items fill different roles. 

But, on the other hand, if your model has neither option (such as the ETB Sequitor Prime, one of the Primes from Soul Wars, and some of the options in the multi-part kit) then you're just straight-up missing out on a free bonus. Rules-wise, your model is objectively worse, for no real reason other than that the mini design team and the rules design team didn't communicate as well as they could. When these are, like the ETB Prime, some of the best minis GW's ever put out, I think that's a shame. 

IMO it's straightforwardly an oversight on GW's part - the frequency of such issues among the Sacrosanct range to me suggests a bit of a rush around the Soul Wars box and getting the Battletome out in time with it. It's not the end of the world, but it's not ideal. All it'd take is a couple more lines on the warscroll, giving some kind of unique effect to Primes that use a one-handed weapon with no Cache, and maybe even Primes that don't use shields, and it'd feel better for everyone.

I'm far from some  hyper-competitive wargamer - my Stormcast army is just made up of whatever I find cool, really. I think it's fair to point this out as a bit weird, or a bit of an oversight, without being labelled a joyless min-maxer! 

[Karragon]

The Sequitor kit is a bit of a mess full stop, between that and not having enough Greatmaces. I do get the ETB things though, they aren't really aimed at matched play players. They're a nice, easy, "cheap" option to get younger players involved.

@stato oddly enough, I do prefer the mono-pose one piece models for my "rank and file" partially because I like them to look "rank and file" and partially because they're much more familiar to me. I know I'm very much in the minority there though and fair enough, it wouldn't do for us all to like the same things

[Nos]

23 minutes ago, Karragon said:

The Sequitor kit is a bit of a mess full stop, between that and not having enough Greatmaces. I do get the ETB things though, they aren't really aimed at matched play players. They're a nice, easy, "cheap" option to get younger players involved.

@stato oddly enough, I do prefer the mono-pose one piece models for my "rank and file" partially because I like them to look "rank and file" and partially because they're much more familiar to me. I know I'm very much in the minority there though and fair enough, it wouldn't do for us all to like the same things

I hated rank and file when I was getting into Warhammer, like really hated it, but think it was because the new multi part regiment sets were being released and they were the new hotness. About half-2/3 of my SC are replicas of each other though in each unit as are most AOS armies now really, and I honestly don’t even notice at this point. 

[kenshin620]

Hmm so the rules for the Feb WD have surfaced. As long as picture leaks aren't shared, we can talk about that right?

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Hmm so the rules for the Feb WD have surfaced. As long as picture leaks aren't shared, we can talk about that right?

Saw the rules. It's basically nothing to write home about, mostly for Narrative more than anything.

[kenshin620]

6 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Saw the rules. It's basically nothing to write home about, mostly for Narrative more than anything.

Kind of silly they made yet another battalion with more Leaders than you can normally take in 2k. The other I'm referring to is the Khorne one with 8 Leaders. And even at 2.5k I'd be hesitant to bring that kind of collection (I suppose it makes them decently tanky).

And yea on a whole, the battalions are far more fluff orientated. Very much aimed at Vandus starter set AoS 1.0 force.

Edited January 21, 2019 by kenshin620

[Black Blade]

Question, do i need to pick my Stardrakes jaws targets all up front, or pick one roll one/repeat so i can target a lone model with all 3

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Saw the rules. It's basically nothing to write home about, mostly for Narrative more than anything.

The Thunderhead Brotherhood is much improved, although you have to run HAMMERS OF SIGMAR, Liberators still suck, and Judicators are still overpriced.

Hammerstrike Force is probably much better than the original, but as long as Retributors and Prosecutors are overpriced it won't be worth running. It would be really interesting to run it with Decimators since they already want to hit big units.

I haven't seen points for these - are they even legal in matched play?

[Nos]

18 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The Thunderhead Brotherhood is much improved, although you have to run HAMMERS OF SIGMAR, Liberators still suck, and Judicators are still overpriced.

Hammerstrike Force is probably much better than the original, but as long as Retributors and Prosecutors are overpriced it won't be worth running. It would be really interesting to run it with Decimators since they already want to hit big units.

I haven't seen points for these - are they even legal in matched play?

WD errata was confirmed by GW as legal yeah