DocKeule Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I also don't think it would be worth the points. With these changes one Leviadon can be a good instestment if it is positioned right. Maybe at 3000 points and higher with two separate flanks a second turtle might be usefull but even then...for the same points (and money) you could add three sharks, 30 Thralls or two units of eels of your choice. Each would give better board control and probably more output. The Leviadon stays a supporting unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Parker Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I know some people are still on the fence for sharks but I really like the new warscroll. I do think they now compete with spear eels as long as your getting the 4th bite which is pretty easy with their own shooting. A bit less damage output compared when eels charge but way better when charged or ongoing combat and only lose damage output every 8 wounds. Losing the monster keyword as long as that’s correct is what really brings them up though. sharks in reverse tide fuethan and an aspect of storm is something I’m excited to try. Something we couldn’t say prior to this change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W1tchhunter Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said: I know some people are still on the fence for sharks but I really like the new warscroll. I do think they now compete with spear eels as long as your getting the 4th bite which is pretty easy with their own shooting. A bit less damage output compared when eels charge but way better when charged or ongoing combat and only lose damage output every 8 wounds. Losing the monster keyword as long as that’s correct is what really brings them up though. sharks in reverse tide fuethan and an aspect of storm is something I’m excited to try. Something we couldn’t say prior to this change. Honestly the sharks and leviadon being usable now really has me interested in this army now. I maaaay have bought the new box... I like the idea you just posted have you got a list sorted? And if so would you mind posting it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsumy Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 turtle are useless in a heavy eels list since half his effect is wasted, but on a heavy namarti list i think 2 turtles would be great and lotan could be ok on that list, better than storm avattar for sure since his aura is like 70% of avatar one, but for like 200p less. And giving those baldys some neded leadership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Parker Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, W1tchhunter said: Honestly the sharks and leviadon being usable now really has me interested in this army now. I maaaay have bought the new box... I like the idea you just posted have you got a list sorted? And if so would you mind posting it. Yeah something like this. Can also wrap 30 thralls in one unit drop lotaan and run another shark as an alternative. quite different to most lists currently so maybe a nice switchup. I might tweak things to get a second soulscryer as I’ve always found mass thralls really benefit from double scryer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnyt Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Just played a 2k game against KO with the new deepkin rules. My list: Enclave: Fuethan Aspect of the Storm with Cloak of Midnight Tidecaller (general)- I reversed the tides Soulrender 10 Thralls with icon 10 Thralls with icon 10 Thralls with icon 10 Reavers 3 morsarr with command Tortle that ignores -1 rend 2 Sharks 2 Sharks Bonus command point His list: (I don't know a lot about KO) shooty guy with hammer that does 3 flat MW on 6's to wound and some shooty attacks on a balloon engineer guy who heals 1x 6 shooty balloon guys 2x3 stabby balloon guys 2x Gunhaulers 15 Thunderers 1 Ironclad 3 Gyrocopters He played the subfaction that let him fly high a lot and be super quick. He also had a battalion We got shifting objectives with the 3 midline objectives that you get bonus battlepoints for holding with troops and one is fancy and worth more points each turn. He finishes deploying first and marks both shark units and the eidolon. He makes me go first Turn 1: I go first and move everyone onto the objectives. Shooting does literally nothing. I get 7 points for capping all objectives with battleline plus the important one. He goes and wipes out a unit of sharks and a unit of thralls. He gets 3 points for capping the important objective (far right) with battleline. 7-3 Deepkin I win the roll off for turn 2 and the important objective goes to the far left Turn 2: More jockeying for position. Morsarr prepare to suicide the stabby balloon guys on the far right while the eidolon gets ready to erase the gyrocopters- this would give me control of the far right objective while my control of the far left was uncontested with the reavers. He had both his gunhaulers pretty close to the center objective so I moved the tortle over to fight them while 10 thralls prepared to kill off the balloon boys he had ready to cap the central objective. But then the sharks, tortle, and reavers actually shot his 3 balloon boys to death. Combat went according to plan. Eidolon and eels wiped out all 3 gyrocopters and the stabby balloons on the objective. This gave me control (but not with battleline). Turtle got a little unlucky but mauled both gunhaulers super badly (one had 2 wounds left and the other had like 5). This was a hugely important turn as it gave me 6 more points (3 for important with troops, 2 for middle with troops, 1 for far right with non-troops). On his turn he makes what I think is a huuuuge mistake and splits up his ironclad and thunderers. Thunderers pile out near the far right objective while the ironclad deepstrikes behind my lines by the far left objective. Other balloons move up to reinforce the far right objective since theyre troops and want to get that bonus point. Gunhaulers crowd the middle objective. His shooting does the things and murderizes the eels, soulrender, thrall unit on the middle objective, and thrall unit I kept in my backfield around the back left objective to stop him sneaking up on me. He scores 1 point for middle objective and 2 points for far right objective. 13-6 Deepkin I win the roll off for turn 3 Turn 3: Important objective goes towards the middle one I keep ignoring the ironclad and crowd the reavers on that far left objective to guarantee my 2 points. Eidolon ditches the right flank and goes to make sure that the gunhaulers die (and to get out of the thunderers range). Tortle gets ready to eat some gunhaulers. Sharks on the left flank go into his backfield so that they can move over to the left or middle objective as needed (while still avoiding the thunderer death ball). The reavers actually kill a gunhauler with their shooting and combat is predictable. The eidolon crushes the last gunhauler and I take the middle objective. So I score 4 points (left objective with troops, middle objective (most important). His turn is predictable. Ironclad moves up and obliterates the reavers while claiming that far left objective. Thunderers move up to get in range of my eidolon and tortle next turn . His last unit of balloon boys goes over to the far right objective. He scores 3 points for the far left and far right objective with troops. 17-9 deepkin I actually win the roll for turn 4!! Turn 4: important objective goes to far left Endgame time: Tortle and sharks charge into ironclad for fun, Eidolon goes into the endrinrigger general and last unit of balloon boys on the far right. I do like 15 wounds to the ironclad and kill the balloon boys and general (his fight after death thing almost kills me though!) I score 2 points for left and central objective without troops. The tidecaller sneakily claimed that central objective. His turn is super short: He gets very excited to glass my eidolon but then I pop the cloak of midnight so he can't do it. Then we realize that mathematically he can't catch up in the 2 turns he has left and the Deepkin win! He had 2 units left and could score a maximum of 6 points (important and regular objective without troops = 3 points x2 turns). Final score: 19-9 Deepkin! Very tough game that I pulled out by playing the objectives and clogging up his guns with thrall bodies. Sharks are very good now. The Morsarr tend to fizzle against tougher units but the sharks don't degrade and continue to hit hard combat after combat. Also their 14 inch movement is SO HELPFUL. Definitely a shark guy now but I can see why morsarr will likely remain the preferred tournament list. Their shooting is actually pretty cool. Didn't get to use the nets against KO but they have some good chip damage. The soulrender is useless. Thralls die in increments of 10. He isn't tough or fighty enough to do anything. Eidolon: I LOVE HIM. Holy ****** this guy pulls his weight. He's a zippy beatstick who just wipes stuff out. The 5+ fnp is a very welcome addition and his aura is big enough to really help out. I still love cloak of midnight when comboed with the army trait to just shut down a shooting phase. Healing while charging is also cool. He's just versatile and an awesome model. Thralls: They literally did nothing but die. Which was ideal. I'll probably swap out 10 for 10 reavers and decrease my total infantry by 10 Reavers: So their shooting isn't actually horrible when theyre near the tortle and having bodies is super helpful. I really liked their re-roll run base trait for objective capping and they're otherwise just bodies to get killed and plink a few wounds here and there. Tortle: Yeah this guy is great. 2+ ignoring rend -1 is fantastic. He's a brick that makes your army fight a little harder and brings the pain with his fin attacks. 2 chances to get jaws of death is also great and his shooting is also pretty decent chip damage Morsarr: They remain fast and brutal on the charge. But then they kinda slap around until they die. They're clearly the optimal choice but I like the sharks' ability to not degrade and chip some shots. So moving forward, make infantry 20 reavers and 10 thralls, drop the soulrender, drop bonus CP, pick up an Akhelian King to run with the sharks so when they charge they just mulch things with overlapping auras. I was super impressed with how much chip damage the shooting can do now as well as the ability to project a presence across the table without sacrificing melee prowess. I think reavers will maybe be pretty good for that. Let the sharks and eidolon do the heavy hitting while the eels pick out weaker targets and the tortle provides a flex buff/beater. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Turtle + Islean Guard is nasty (+1 save, unreadable on the charge). They‘re now the perfect tanks to soak up shots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alekusu Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Turtle + Islean Guard is nasty (+1 save, unreadable on the charge). They‘re now the perfect tanks to soak up shots. How to you get to +1save? You start at 4+, 3+ with drum, 2+ with cover. If you charge you lose the cover, so you stay at +2 no? I'm probably gonna go with Dhom-Hain Volturnos General 270 pts Soulscryer (Cloud of midnight) 130 pts Ishlaen Guard x3 140 pts Ishlaen Guard x3 140 pts Morsarr Guard x3 170 pts Morsarr Guard x3 170 pts Morsarr Guard x3 170 pts Allopex x1 with Net 110 pts Allopex x2 with Harpoons 220 pts Leviadon x1 340 pts Aetherwings x3 40 pts Akhelian Corps 100 pts That's a 4 drop 2000 pts list. Probably one Morsarr with the Net allopex doing the deepstrike, the rest under the turtle (Save +2 on all with cover and Drum turn 1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 51 minutes ago, alekusu said: How to you get to +1save? You start at 4+, 3+ with drum, 2+ with cover. If you charge you lose the cover, so you stay at +2 no? I'm probably gonna go with Dhom-Hain Volturnos General 270 pts Soulscryer (Cloud of midnight) 130 pts Ishlaen Guard x3 140 pts Ishlaen Guard x3 140 pts Morsarr Guard x3 170 pts Morsarr Guard x3 170 pts Morsarr Guard x3 170 pts Allopex x1 with Net 110 pts Allopex x2 with Harpoons 220 pts Leviadon x1 340 pts Aetherwings x3 40 pts Akhelian Corps 100 pts That's a 4 drop 2000 pts list. Probably one Morsarr with the Net allopex doing the deepstrike, the rest under the turtle (Save +2 on all with cover and Drum turn 1) My bad, thought ishlean started at a 3+ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnenspeer Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, JackStreicher said: My bad, thought ishlean started at a 3+ They have 3+ after charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Guys cloack of midnight means you can chose to use it in shooting phase. And ut cant be targeted in that phase but you can stil charge and fight right? Thx ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnenspeer Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Tizianolol said: Guys cloack of midnight means you can chose to use it in shooting phase. And ut cant be targeted in that phase but you can stil charge and fight right? Thx ! Its only activated in one phase e.g. if you activate in shooting your model cant shoot and cant be shooted at. Other phases like charge-phase are not effected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, Tizianolol said: cloack cloud of midnight corrected that for you. And yes, it only blocks one phase 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Is anyone going to use the new battalion? The more I think about it the more bummed out I am. You can't use Volturnos (which would have been humongous) so you would have to save all your command points to buff as many units during high tide as possible. And after having to field a generic king he would have to be from the Ionrach enclave which is mediocre at best if you don't use allies (which I don't). I think I will pass on the battalion and maybe get some additional sharks for the Akhelian Corps. Edited November 9, 2020 by DocKeule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchid89 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Ok so I decided what to get for my first 1000 points of collecting Deepkin Instead of getting the SC box (not really a fan of Namarti) Ill get 2 of the new Broken Realms boxes (probably sell 1 of the kings) and get 2 packs of Eels Akhelian/Volturnos 230/270 4 Sharks 400 3 Eels 130-170 3 Eels 130-170 Total 910-970 I hope this will be ok, im not looking to be competive and i think it will look awesome. Edited November 9, 2020 by Orchid89 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elves are the best Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Orchid89 said: Ok so I decided what to get for my first 1000 points of collecting Deepkin Instead of getting the SC box (not really a fan of Namarti) Ill get 2 of the new Broken Realms boxes (probably sell 1 of the kings) and get 2 packs of Eels Akhelian/Volturnos 230/270 4 Sharks 400 3 Eels 130-170 3 Eels 130-170 Total 910-970 I hope this will be ok, im not looking to be competive and i think it will look awesome. How are you planning to run the sharks ? In the battalion ? On their own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchid89 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Elves are the best said: How are you planning to run the sharks ? In the battalion ? On their own now that is something i have not thought about. what do you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elves are the best Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I am new as well but I’m pretty sure you can’t run them in 4s anymore so maybe two units of two 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 One unit can include 1-3 now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchid89 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Ah I see, I was playing around with the Warscroll builder and it let me pick 4, i guess its not updated yet. Is there any negative of running 4 single shark units? seems like it would give more flexibility, but 2 units of 2 is also something i could do. Im still new to AoS so I dont understand the benefit of having a unit of 3 vs having 3 single units (for example) if there is no points saving Edited November 9, 2020 by Orchid89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elves are the best Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Orchid89 said: Ah I see, I was playing around with the Warscroll builder and it let me pick 4, i guess its not updated yet. Is there any negative of running 4 single shark units? seems like it would give more flexibility, but 2 units of 2 is also something i could do. Im still new to AoS so I dont understand the benefit of having a unit of 3 vs having 3 single units (for example) if there is no points saving Having one big unit of three means your will have less drops. If you have less drops than your opponent at the start of the game you get to choose who goes first. It also lets you attack with all the sharks in the unit at the same time. Sometimes it will be hard to fit all 3 in when attacking smaller heroes or units. Running smaller units gives you more mobility but will increase your drops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperAgent Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Orchid89 said: Ah I see, I was playing around with the Warscroll builder and it let me pick 4, i guess its not updated yet. Is there any negative of running 4 single shark units? seems like it would give more flexibility, but 2 units of 2 is also something i could do. Im still new to AoS so I dont understand the benefit of having a unit of 3 vs having 3 single units (for example) if there is no points saving Some units get a discount if you use more. Some you want to use more so they survive and alpha strike. With sharks (and most deepkin units) I would think using min units would be better. Forgotten Nightmares means your opponents can only shoot the closest unit, and in this shooting meta, that is a huge benefit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Orchid89 said: Ah I see, I was playing around with the Warscroll builder and it let me pick 4, i guess its not updated yet. Is there any negative of running 4 single shark units? seems like it would give more flexibility, but 2 units of 2 is also something i could do. Im still new to AoS so I dont understand the benefit of having a unit of 3 vs having 3 single units (for example) if there is no points saving Biggest advantage of larger units (appart from having fewer drops) is that the models in on unit attack at the same time. If you run four single sharks the first one can attack than your opponent can pick a fight than the second on can attack and so on. If you have three in one unit you might kill an enemy unit faster and in return take less damage yourself. Edited November 9, 2020 by DocKeule 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchid89 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DocKeule said: Biggest advantage of larger units (appart from having fewer drops) is that the models in on unit attack at the same time. If you rund four single sharks the first one can attack than your opponent can pick a fight than the second on can attack and so on. If you have three in one unit you might kill an enemy unit faster and in return take less damage yourself. ah thats a perfect explaination, i understand now, thanks 16 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said: Some units get a discount if you use more. Some you want to use more so they survive and alpha strike. With sharks (and most deepkin units) I would think using min units would be better. Forgotten Nightmares means your opponents can only shoot the closest unit, and in this shooting meta, that is a huge benefit. 16 minutes ago, Elves are the best said: Having one big unit of three means your will have less drops. If you have less drops than your opponent at the start of the game you get to choose who goes first. It also lets you attack with all the sharks in the unit at the same time. Sometimes it will be hard to fit all 3 in when attacking smaller heroes or units. Running smaller units gives you more mobility but will increase your drops. Thanks Sleeper/Evles, I see the benefit of both tbh, Ill eventually try all 3 options (4x1, 2x2, 1x3+1) and see which i think works best. Edited November 9, 2020 by Orchid89 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, Orchid89 said: Akhelian/Volturnos 230/270 4 Sharks 400 3 Eels 130-170 3 Eels 130-170 Total 910-970 By the way: Sharks will be 110 points each after the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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