AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, Hoseman said:

That tree is the living tree!!! when a unit is slain with 4+ you can set them back next to tree

Wait WTF? Are you guessing or do you know for sure?

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Mirage8112 said:

Dryads are great for tarpitting most elite troops, but bloodthirsters or other CC specialists just tear right through them. Winter leaf won’t do any good if your dryads aren’t alive when it’s time to fight back. I haven’t played winter leaf, only because it requires so many dryads and I hate painting them (well, they’re ok i guess, but I have 30 painted and anything more than that and my eyes start to cross). What kind of list were you running? Since I mostly play dreadwood, I always have at least 4 groups of 5 spites ready to soak charges without sacrificing very much on my part. In fact a line of scythe hunters screened by spites is a very much an “I dare you to charge me” set-up. BT charges, BT can’t reach hunters, spites die, hunters tear whatever charged apart; wash, rinse, repeat. 

I’m not a fan of using dryads as screens. They’re more expensive, and don't hold up any better than t-revs or spites. If they’re a screen you’re likely using them to soak at least 5-7 wounds (anything less you might as well just let’s get through so you can save them to block heavy hitters). 5-6 wounds is enough to wipe a unit of T-revs (who cares, thats what they’re supposed to do)  but between combat losses and Battelshock those dryads are probably gone too. 

They’re also more expensive. 20 points vs tree revs and 30 vs spites. 20-30 points might sound like very little, but when your running 2-3 groups of them solely to use as screens, you’re handicapping yourself by 60-90 points. That’s another support hero (like a wraith who can just summon drayds at the moment: best of both worlds) or nearly an arch-revenant. I know a bunch of dryads are requires for winterleaf, but there’s got to be a way to squeeze in some revenants, even if its just for chaff purposes. 

I ran Alarielle, 2 wraith , 2 x 20 dryads, 2x 10 dryads, 2x 3 bowhunters and summons another 3 bows.

It was nearly ideal anti chaos batallion, his behrmoths starting 24 away from midline and i had shooting to damage thirsters before impact... wasnt enough.

He dispelled nearly every spell I had. I got 1 thirster low on hp  before impact and finished it after it killed 10 dryads. After that his other 3 hit me on the other side of the table.  Well 1 big axe guy hit 20 dryads and killed half  - 3+ rr 1's,  2+  even with -1 to hit due to ghyrstrike -  I prevented battle shock and removed dryads to disengage. Since he be able to hit alarielle anyway and because I had to do some thing (he had all objectives) I pu talarielle into him hoping to take him out (had a few wound from shooting then) but got him too 2 remaining. .. With 2 wound they arent even in the lowest bracket. He'd unbound my mystic shield and just killed alarielle in one combat with a 280 point bt. Next turn skar brand hit 3 bows and was going to auto hit me with 8 mw.. except he rolled 6 so it was 16 auto mw. On a1+ mw .. not a to hit roll so 1 wouldn't have failed.  Dryads with exploding attack where impressive against his hounds (3x5 as battleline) and rerolling 1's with Kurnoths and alarielle was nice but my d3 on hunter damage was abysmal.

 

[Hoseman]

2 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Wait WTF? Are you guessing or do you know for sure?

I'm hoping and praying for that. We should have something like emerald lifeswarm but cooler and better

Edited May 7, 2019 by Hoseman

[jake3991]

Cannot wait to hear more about what is coming!

[Mirage8112]

@Aezeal Here’s a perfect example of what I was talking about.

Here’s a screen shot of a battle i was watching tonight while I was at my FLGS playing Shadespire. These 3 pictures from the bottom of turn 2, with measurements taken by my digital ruler. I also checked them with a physical ruler just to make sure the measurements were close. 








As you can see, the stormcast player has 2 cellistar ballistas in a ruin with a Lord Castellant babysitting. The other army across the table is a Blades of Khorne army. The back table edge is just over 9” away from the the closest model manning the ballistas. The line is only 1 model deep, with a group of Sequitors holding the Stormcast players left flank. 

If I was the playing this match as Sylvaneth instead of blades of Khorne, and the in the first picture were say dryads or hunters, it would be all too easy to bring the arch revenant near the ruins, outside 3” from the evocators holding the line, and jump him over in next movement phase. Have a support caster in the back with ranuu’s and throne of vines for D3+1 to casting cogs, arch revenant hops over and can easily get within 3” of the ballistas while the 10 revenants come in from the back. They wouldn’t be in range for warsinger, but cogs gives them a 7” charge and they can reroll one of the dice (and spend a CP if need be to re roll the other)  10 revenants + the arch could probably take both out in a single combat phase and there wouldn’t be anything the Stormcast player could do about it (just to be safe I’d probably either want 15 to ensure they both go down in one turn of combat, or I would  use Allarielle’s RR wound command ability.) 

You can also see the other player has done a slightly better job of guarding his backfield, but in the last picture on the far right has another group of evocators trying to push up on the Khorne players flank. They haven’t actually engaged in combat yet since it was only the bottom of 2. My bet is when they actually join combat there’s be a space to do the same thing on that side to the Khorne player as well (If his opponent was  Sylvaneth instead of stormcast).  

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Mirage8112

[Craze]

 

15 hours ago, JP1 said:

• Tanglethorn Thicket: Was re-roll failed save rolls, now re-roll save rolls. What this means is before if you were facing something with -2 rend, you were only re-rolling the 1, 2 and 3s (fails before modifiers). Now you are re-rolling  1, 2, 3, 4 and 5s. Massive increase in rerolls. Lets hope this one doesn't get FAQ'd.

This is very interesting.

Is it explicitly explained somewhere, that "rerolling failed saves" means "failed before modifiers"?

[Trevelyan]

 

12 minutes ago, Craze said:

 

This is very interesting.

Is it explicitly explained somewhere, that "rerolling failed saves" means "failed before modifiers"?

It is not. In fact the rules quite clearly have you apply modifiers from rend before you determine whether the save succeeds or fails. 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Trevelyan
Clarification

[armisael]

17 minutes ago, Craze said:

 

This is very interesting.

Is it explicitly explained somewhere, that "rerolling failed saves" means "failed before modifiers"?

in FAQ, it is very clear.

[Craze]

Ok thanks. 

Now another topic: In the Azyr app the updated scroll stills says "failed save rolls", while the scroll on the GW page (at least the German version) says re-roll all save rolls. 🙄

[The World Tree]

16 minutes ago, Craze said:

Ok thanks. 

Now another topic: In the Azyr app the updated scroll stills says "failed save rolls", while the scroll on the GW page (at least the German version) says re-roll all save rolls. 🙄

The app is not the final arbiter of the rules. It is often filled with errors

[JP1]

3 hours ago, armisael said:

in FAQ, it is very clear.

 

Completely agree with @Trevelyan that the core rules state that you apply modifiers then decide whether the save was passed or failed, HOWEVER they then dropped this FAQ at the start of AOS 2.0 that clarified that the re-roll part happens 'in between'., i.e before you apply the rend or any bonuses. 

Not the most intuitive system, and i have to admit I had been playing it wrong for years. At tournaments people will not let you re-roll the extra dice on your hunters if rended, and you shouldn't let them either (this actually applies a lot in Sylvaneth if your Dryads are -1 to hit, and your opponent has re-roll failed hits, for example; Reapers that usually hit on a 4+ go down to 5+ for Dryads, therefore they can only reroll the 1's, 2s and  3's, not the 4's!). 

Edited May 8, 2019 by JP1

[Trevelyan]

3 hours ago, armisael said:

in FAQ, it is very clear.

That’s not how I would parse the FAQ in the context of rend on saves. I can see the argument, but denying a reroll because rend turns a ‘successful’ save into a fail seems counter to the intent, and I’ve never seen it played that way. Either way, the change in language removes the ambiguity. 

[Trevelyan]

[double post]

Edited May 8, 2019 by Trevelyan
Double post

[AaronWilson]

I was moving some things around in my spare room last weekend and decided to take a group photo of my Sylvaneth. Sadly not fully painted but slowly approaching it. 

[Ragnar72]

I can not find any updates warscrolls at all,... whether on the GW homepage, nor in the app.

anybody link?

[Craze]

You can find the new warscrolls under the Looncurse box on the GW homepage.

[Nox]

Leaked points from Looncurse: 

[Walkirriox]

12 minutes ago, Nox said:

Leaked points from Looncurse: 

No drop points for bows?? Well... They are gonna stay on the shelves...

[Nox]

16 minutes ago, Walkirriox said:

No drop points for bows?? Well... They are gonna stay on the shelves...

Might be different in the actual battletome. But if not I'm guessing swords/Scythes are getting a point increase.

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Nox

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

I was moving some things around in my spare room last weekend and decided to take a group photo of my Sylvaneth. Sadly not fully painted but slowly approaching it. 

I don’t think you’ve got enough Dryads!

[Alezya]

True that! He still needs 16 more! Nice army though! 

 

Why would we want to field 30 Tree revenants? 🙄

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

8 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

 

It is not. In fact the rules quite clearly have you apply modifiers from rend before you determine whether the save succeeds or fails. 

 

No, the rules are quite clear that you always make the reroll before any modifiers. And for "reroll failed X" you must reroll only the dice that fulfill that requirement.

And before someones brings up the attack sequence as a counter argument, it says you modify the dice roll, and therefore it must happen after rerolls since rerolls are already covered in the main rules. 

I know you are speaking about what constitutes a failure concerning rerolls, and that is when a roll before modifiers is not equal or higher than the roll needed. That's why when you roll to hit with a -1 on a 4+, you only reroll the 1,2,3.

If you meant a different thing, and i misunderstood you, i apologize beforehand.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Kairos Tejedestinos

[Trevelyan]

31 minutes ago, Alezya said:

Why would we want to field 30 Tree revenants? 🙄

Four units of 5 each because you misread the *revenant requirements for Dreadwood, and a unit of 10 because you like a challenge when deciding what Alarielle will summon.

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

3 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

I was moving some things around in my spare room last weekend and decided to take a group photo of my Sylvaneth. Sadly not fully painted but slowly approaching it. 

Looks gorgeous.

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

1 hour ago, Nox said:

Might be different in the actual battletome. But if not I'm guessing swords/Scythes are getting a point increase.

 

They better get outrageous rules if that's the case. They don't have that much to compete with nowadays melee monsters.